starvation mode and losing friends

windycitycupcake · August 2012

Yesterday someone unfriended me because i ate under 1200 calories.

I found myself offended, even though I shouldn't care what people do on here. Really, it's no big deal. The truth is that I take painstaking steps to make sure I am getting 100% of every nutrient I need. I have only been doing this for a few weeks and I am eating as cleanly as possible. That means incorporating a lot of raw vegetables, lean protein and foods that are naturally low in calories.

I also work a job with odd, unstable hours and sometimes sleep through a whole day. This effects my appetite, my food diary and my work out schedule.

Going under the 1200 a few days a week, I haven't noticed a lack of energy and my workouts are going well. I am currently still more than 50 pounds overweight, i am not anorexic and i am not starving.

so my question is why, if i'm handling my food intake in a responsible way and i allow myself to consume less than 1200 calories a day does that seem like I am being abusive to my body?

I know how I feel and I feel fine. I am a grown woman and I can make my own choices. I look at food diaries all the time on here and there are plenty of people who consume the holy 1200 calories and it's mostly processed food and often times candy and cookies. Are they healthier? I don't tell people to do things my way, or assume i know what is best for them.

I've lived that life, Ive eaten nothing but sweets and pizza for the last year consuming upwards of 5000-10000 calories per day and i was depressed, sluggish and unhappy.

As I figure out my new healthy diet, it's okay for me to choose how I want to maintain it. If I want to go to 1500 when I have lost 20 pounds then i will. If I don't I wont. That doesn't mean I think you should do it too.

I found myself surprised to feel resentment for being judged by this person, and was saddened to lose a friend in this community for this reason.

here is an interesting article i found when i googled starvation mode, since mfp has got me constantly terrified these days.

http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html

gogonunubean · August 2012

Who cares?

So some random person on the internet unfriended you. What you are doing may or may not be healthy. I don't know you, your goals and can't see your diary....so I can't comment. But to get upset because one person did not like the way you choose to live your life is a little um over sensitive? If you hold out for universal approval you will be waiting a very very long time.

As you say, you make your own choices. So did they. They choose to friend people with a different ethic.

Case closed

:happy:

smokinjackd · August 2012

Great article, another myth debunked, maybe....lol

cgale8 · August 2012

I found your post very interesting. I have not been on here a month yet and this disturbs me. I thought the message boards were meant for encouragement and support not critiquing and judgement.

You are the only person that can understand what works for your body. Congratulations on all your achievements thus far. I think you are awesome for doing the best job under the circumstances you have to work under.

I hope one day to say that I have 50 pounds left to lose!!!

Don't worry about the ones that leave, they just leave room for the ones that matter most.

elyelyse · August 2012

They may have unfriended you not because you somehow offended them by eating too little, or because they are judging you for "doing it wrong" but because of a number of other reasons. Maybe they have suffered from an eating disorder, and seeing you consistently log a number that is unhealthy for them acts as a trigger. Maybe they feel that your plan of action is so different from theirs that they have nothing to offer you, and vice-versa. and yeah, maybe they just think what you are doing is dumb, but then why do you want them around anyway?

softlyspoken68 · August 2012

Helloitsdan · August 2012

Get with the winners!
=D

birdieaz · August 2012

I've never unfriended someone because of their calorie intake. However it does make it really hard to be supportive of someone who is netting far below their BMR. My solution is to not comment at all. I won't be a hypocrite and say good job if it feels wrong, but it's not my place to tell them what to do either.

windycitycupcake · August 2012

Maybe they have suffered from an eating disorder, and seeing you consistently log a number that is unhealthy for them acts as a trigger. Maybe they feel that your plan of action is so different from theirs that they have nothing to offer you, and vice-versa.

yes i can understand that. I don't know why it felt so bad, they just wrote me an odd message like, "you eat too few calories i can't be friends with you" it made me feel like i was harming them in some way, i don't know why. maybe that is why i am feeling overly sensitive.

windycitycupcake · August 2012

Who cares?

So some random person on the internet unfriended you. What you are doing may or may not be healthy. I don't know you, your goals and can't see your diary....so I can't comment. But to get upset because one person did not like the way you choose to live your life is a little um over sensitive? If you hold out for universal approval you will be waiting a very very long time.

As you say, you make your own choices. So did they. They choose to friend people with a different ethic.

Case closed

:happy:

yes, i closed my diary because i felt embarrassed for not eating enough calories. i know, so dumb.

windycitycupcake · August 2012

I've never unfriended someone because of their calorie intake. However it does make it really hard to be supportive of someone who is netting far below their BMR. My solution is to not comment at all. I won't be a hypocrite and say good job if it feels wrong, but it's not my place to tell them what to do either.

this ^

smokinjackd · August 2012

I've been sort of wondering some thing myself. With my workouts now MFP is saying I should be eating 3800 calories to maintain my 2 pound per week loss, but unless I start eating junk there is just no way in hell I'm getting to 3800 calories, I topped out today at 2161 and ate a lot of food. I realize this is far from starvation mode but the reality is with this much of a difference between intake and output I should see huge losses over the next few weeks. Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Did you notice any adverse effects?

geekyjock76 · August 2012

"Starvation mode", or adapted thermogenics as its actually called, refers to chronic severe caloric restriction over the long term. Semantics aside, there are plenty of studies out there with findings that suggest maintaining a large caloric deficit, chronically, can have serious repercussions (especially for females): depressed Resting Metabolic Rate, Amenorrhea, hair loss, leptin and cortisol imbalance, disruption in LH pulsatility and ovarian function, reduced bone mass density, etc..

Here is another study that followed the Minnesota Experiment but dug deeper.

Autoregulation of body composition during weight recovery in human: the Minnesota Experiment revisited.
Dulloo AG, Jacquet J, Girardier L.
Source
Department of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Geneva, Switzerland.
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To gain insights into the control systems underlying human variability in the regulation of body composition during weight recovery, as well as the disproportionate recovery of fat relative to lean tissue, the classical Minnesota Experiment conducted on 32 men subjected to long-term semi-starvation and refeeding was revisited with the following objectives: (1) to determine whether the control of energy-partitioning between lean and fat tissues during weight loss and weight recovery is an individual characteristic, and if a predictor can be statistically identified, (2) to determine whether the reduction in thermogenesis during weight loss persists during weight recovery, and underlies the disproportionate recovery of fat tissue and (3) to integrate the control of energy-partitioning and that of thermogenesis in order to explain the pattern of lean and fat tissue mobilisation and deposition during weight loss and weight recovery.
METHODS:
Individual data on body weight, body fat, fat-free-mass (FFM), and basal metabolic rate (BMR), assessed during the control baseline period (i.e. prior to weight loss), at the end of 24 weeks of semi-starvation, and at the end of a 12 week period of restricted refeeding, were used to calculate the following parameters: (i) a quantitative index of energy-partitioning, the P-ratio, defined as the proportion of body energy mobilised as protein during weight loss, or as the proportion of body energy deposited as protein during weight recovery, (ii) a quantitative index of changes in thermogenesis, defined as the change in BMR adjusted for FFM (or for both FFM and fat mass) and (iii) the degree of replenishment of fat and FFM compartments, defined as the recovery of body fat and FFM (during refeeding) as a percentage of that lost during semi-starvation.
RESULTS:
This re-analysis indicates the following: (i) a large inter-individual variability in P-ratio during both weight loss and weight recovery, but for a given individual, the P-ratio during refeeding is strongly correlated with the P-ratio during semi-starvation, (ii) body composition during the control period is the most important predictor of variability in P-ratio, such that the higher the initial % body fat, the lower the proportion of energy mobilised as protein, and hence the greater the propensity to mobilise fat during semi-starvation and to subsequently deposit fat during refeeding and (iii) at week 12 of refeeding, the change in adjusted BMR is found to be reduced by a magnitude which is inversely proportional to the degree of fat recovery, but is unrelated to the degree of FFM recovery. A quantitative relationship is derived between the P-ratio during refeeding, the % fat recovery, and the P-ratio during semi-starvation.
CONCLUSIONS:
Evidence is presented here suggesting that (i) human variability in the pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery is to a large extent determined by individual variations in the control of energy-partitioning, for which the initial % body fat is the most important predictor and (ii) the disproportionate gain in fat relative to lean tissue during weight recovery is contributed by a reduction in thermogenesis (i.e. increased efficiency of food utilization) for accelerating specifically the replenishment of the fat stores. These control systems, operating via energy-partitioning and thermogenesis, have been integrated into a compartmental model for the regulation of body composition during underfeeding/refeeding, and can be used to explain the individual pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery in situations ranging from the rehabilitation after malnutrition to the relapse of obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8696417

bradp1979 · August 2012

I've been sort of wondering some thing myself. With my workouts now MFP is saying I should be eating 3800 calories to maintain my 2 pound per week loss, but unless I start eating junk there is just no way in hell I'm getting to 3800 calories, I topped out today at 2161 and ate a lot of food. I realize this is far from starvation mode but the reality is with this much of a difference between intake and output I should see huge losses over the next few weeks. Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Did you notice any adverse effects?

It's been my experience that when I net around 1500 cal a day, and drink a lot of water, I tend to lose consistently. MFP says that I should net 2040 to lose 2 lbs a week. That is too much. When I actually do net that many calories in a day, I feel bloated and overfull for the vast majority of the day. I think if you just listen to your body, you'll do fine.

XxxxDONNA · August 2012

Close your diary. Nothing to do with anyone what u eat x

opuntia · August 2012

Ah, this seems to a trend on MFP. I see it all the time on the forums - people declaring that they won't add anyone who ever eats less than 1200 calories. There seems to be a general idea that eating less than 1200 calories is an intrinsically Bad Thing, and that those who ever do so have a death wish and may even be recruiting others to their death pact!

I confess I find it a bit amusing! I mean, realistically, people in life tend to have certain stipulations about the kind of people they will and won't be friends with, and these are often based on very rigid stereotypes, but in real life no one actually speaks these stipulations out loud. Here on MFP, though, people make clear their stipulations right from the start. Which in a way, kind of makes it easier. You can also state your own disclaimers, so that these very rigid-viewed people won't end up on your friends list.

I've made my profile public and explained in it that people who have a list of stipulations, and who want someone who's just like them, are unlikely to want to be my friend! I let people know what to expect - and what not to expect - if they friend me! I think that works quite well. The people who friend me are more likely to be people who think for themselves and who are open minded and accepting of difference.

It's a shame you've felt the need to make your food diary private. My food diary is friends only. I enjoy letting my friends see what I eat, and also seeing what they eat. If they were to judge me for it, and not want to be my friend because of what I eat, I'd rather they unfriended me - I wouldn't want to make my diary private just to keep them happy. I want friends I can be open with, rather than having to hide what I do and who I am. There is no point in having friends you have to hide from.

Whitezombiegirl · August 2012

Amen. I think its' ridiculous imposing a standard on everyone. I have set my goal at 800 a day- some times I go over, sometimes I go under. I don't have an eating disorder- I'm just petite in hight and stature. I only want to shed a couple of pounds, no big deal. I also fast twice a week at 300 cals or so for health reasons.

I wonder what people would make of my partner who is an extreamly healthy 46 year old man- very heavy muscled and who does a manual job. He eats nothing till about 9pm and throughout the week he might skip even one nights eating or just have a plain salad. At the weekends he might consume 5000 cals each day (he also eats paleo). It's not an eating pattern I could live with but he has tonnes of energy, his muscle mass remains the same and he never gets sick. Maybe he's a medical marvel- who knows? but I would'nt 'unfreind' him for it.

annwyatt69 · August 2012

I found your post very interesting. I have not been on here a month yet and this disturbs me. I thought the message boards were meant for encouragement and support not critiquing and judgement.

You are the only person that can understand what works for your body. Congratulations on all your achievements thus far. I think you are awesome for doing the best job under the circumstances you have to work under.

I hope one day to say that I have 50 pounds left to lose!!!

Don't worry about the ones that leave, they just leave room for the ones that matter most.

I agree that you know best what works for your body. If I ate the way most people do here on MFP, and the way they tell me to eat, I would gain weight the way I have the last ten years. I am not a big eater and I never have been. Most days I end up with about 800 or 900 calories and do so under medical supervision. What I eat and what I don't eat is no one's business but mine. If I have to do so on MFP with no friends, I could care less. I am NOT starving, in fact, I am usually so full most days I feel like a can of biscuits about to bust.

Alab51 · August 2012

Sounds like you are doing really well. I believe that whatever works for you is the right thing.

Keep going and attack those final pounds!!!

meowkapow · August 2012

My diary is closed and I don't add people I don't know in real life as friends. My health and fitness journey is my own and I've had enough of other peoples input in real life to deal with virtual nobodies opinions LOL. Don't let one persons choice to judge and exclude you get you down, we all live with our choices in the end, whether it's with weight loss or how we treat other people. Just do your best!

TaylorsGranddad · August 2012

not only is starvation mode a myth, but there's a diet where you only eat 500 calories a day twice a week, I've put a link below
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/8005-5-2-fasting

Whitezombiegirl · August 2012

I do this. I read that the calorie limits were 400-600 for guys and 200-300 for women though. I can usually manage 350 on fast days- but i have tonnes of eneregy and usually do an extra workout.

texastango · August 2012

Briefly, if people defriend you for going under 1200 calories then it's their ignorance (unless they know something about you I don't).

I've spoken to many a registered dietician on this subject and many of them do not believe in "starvation" mode especially for an arbitrary 1200 calories. It depends on your sex, your build, and many other factors. I am aware of one gentleman who was only given 900 cals / day by a dietician because he was paralyzed from the neck down and couldn't lose weight because his REE (resting energy expenditure) was so low.

Generally (and I'll simplify) two things are an issue when you go very low.

1. You don't get enough macro or micro nutrients you need for good health.
2. Your metabolic rate slows even more than just dieting and can slow to 30 percent of normal if you take in 900 cals or less.

You'll still lose weight mind you, just much slower, and that's your brain trying to preserve what energy it needs in the future.

So if you are mindful of what you are doing, and go under 1200, and it works for you, have at it. Just be sure to make sure you are eating balanced and as healthy as possible.

Any friend that deleted you, well, there is hope that some day they will be more educated. For now...feel free to friend me if you like. I'll keep you on board. I like active people who try hard to do the right thing!

girl_afraid82 · August 2012

I'll admit, I do try not to have people on my friends list that net low calories... but that's mainly because I like to have friends who work towards similar goals as myself. I struggle to support anyone who consistently undereats, as personally I don't feel it's healthy.

However... I do look at people as individuals. If someone was eating super healthy clean food, and only dropping below their goals every so often, I'd probably stay friends with them. If someone is only eating 800 calories of junk a day, then that does nothing to inspire me at all, so I'd drop them.

In the past I have befriended people with eating disorders, people who freak out about being 5 calories over goal, people who abuse diet pills, people who use all their calories on alcohol and people who swing between various faddy diets and then cry when they don't work. It was mentally draining seeing things like that on my feed, so I put down my own rules.

At the end of the day, I'm here for me. I want to surround myself with people who eat a similar level of calories as myself, have a similar outlook on food and exercise and inspire me to carry on. It may be selfish, but after being here all year you start to worry less about what everyone thinks haha!

texastango · August 2012

"Starvation mode", or adapted thermogenics as its actually called, refers to chronic severe caloric restriction over the long term. Semantics aside, there are plenty of studies out there with findings that suggest maintaining a large caloric deficit, chronically, can have serious repercussions (especially for females): depressed Resting Metabolic Rate, Amenorrhea, hair loss, leptin and cortisol imbalance, disruption in LH pulsatility and ovarian function, reduced bone mass density, etc..
.

Well put and I'm glad someone at least posts a reference to back their point. I actually agree with the study, but believe the OPwas referring to intermittent large calorie deficit and not "Chronic". That said, this does point out the potential down side of too much (or not enough) of something has it's concequences too.

MissTomGettingThin · August 2012

*sigh*

Carfoodel · August 2012

I have removed someone for their calorie intake - it made me feel uncomfortable as I have had an ED in the past and I can get very obsessive and competitive - but I am fighting that as much as I can and seeing someone who's calorie intake was cancelling out the food intake every day was making me feel more and more uncomfortable. It's my MFP and I will use it any way I want to.

I am trying really hard to get as fit and healthy as possible and folk that starve themselves or try for extremes consistently just remind me of how fixated I can get - so hell yes I remove them

I also remove folk if they have been on my FL for a month or more and we have never actually "talked" to each other, especially if they go awol all the time and when they do come back we still don't talk. I am sure people have removed me for any reason from annoying the crap out of them with my musings, to a different approach or because we don't really connect *shrug*

if someone has a closed dairy, doesn't do exercise and doesn't ever say how they are doing, then for me I don't see the benefit of having them as friends - just means they are using MFP without the social aspect - which is fine too. But won't lose sleep over someone removing me - except some people that I have met on here who are fun and inspiring that I have made genuine connections with.

vancoolie · August 2012

I'm quite sensitive and would have probably felt similar, but I suppose the world is filled with all sorts of personalities that see things completely differently and this sort of thing will always happen when you expose yourself to them.

As we only connect online, you can't really judge if your 'friends' are people you would naturally get on with in real life, and certainly not discuss your private life with.

Making the decision to turn your life around to lose weight and get fit is a big deal, in my book, also registering with a site like this and publishing your food and exercise keeps you enthused and inspired. The anonymity makes life easier if you find discussing this sort of thing with friends and family in great detail difficult, especially if they aren't very supportive.

Good luck, you have lots of great support, you don't need personalities like that in your friends list, they did you a favour by removing themselves as obviously not the kind of friend you need.

texastango · August 2012

At the end of the day, I'm here for me. I want to surround myself with people who eat a similar level of calories as myself, have a similar outlook on food and exercise and inspire me to carry on. It may be selfish, but after being here all year you start to worry less about what everyone thinks haha!

Point well taken. And there you have it. Both sides of the arguement with valid points. In the end, she is quiet right, MFP is a tool for you to use and use as you wish to obtain your goals. Open diary, closed diary, lots of friends, no friends, it doesn't matter. Do what helps you be successful and that can change over time. Do what you need to do and find people who make you laugh, share similar goals, or help you along the way just because they are role models or encourage you. Nough said.

Tarek307 · August 2012

why do you care??? you should be eating less than 1200 anyways to lose weight quick, i take phentermine, eat only 800 or 1,000 calories and work out every day...for protein & nutriets i drink protein shakes & eat things like HONEY + take some viatamins

geebusuk · August 2012

I found your post very interesting. I have not been on here a month yet and this disturbs me. I thought the message boards were meant for encouragement and support not critiquing and judgement.

Personally, I would much prefer that what I'm doing is critiqued and judged than people 'encouraging' me even if they think I'm wrong.

Ideally with some research to back up their own opinions, which will help me form my own.

I've gone periods of time with large deficits and not had a problem myself; though when I had a fair bit to lose. I upped my calories (and joined MFP) as I was getting closer to my goals.

2lb a week (7000 calories) is the 'accepted norm'. But that doesn't quite seem to make sense as being generic and across the board. Somewhere I saw an equation which included the amount of fat you had, which seems to make a bit more sense.

starvation mode and losing friends

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