starvation mode and losing friends

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  • Whitezombiegirl
    Whitezombiegirl Posts: 1,042 Member
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    I do this. I read that the calorie limits were 400-600 for guys and 200-300 for women though. I can usually manage 350 on fast days- but i have tonnes of eneregy and usually do an extra workout.
  • texastango
    texastango Posts: 309
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    Briefly, if people defriend you for going under 1200 calories then it's their ignorance (unless they know something about you I don't).

    I've spoken to many a registered dietician on this subject and many of them do not believe in "starvation" mode especially for an arbitrary 1200 calories. It depends on your sex, your build, and many other factors. I am aware of one gentleman who was only given 900 cals / day by a dietician because he was paralyzed from the neck down and couldn't lose weight because his REE (resting energy expenditure) was so low.

    Generally (and I'll simplify) two things are an issue when you go very low.

    1. You don't get enough macro or micro nutrients you need for good health.
    2. Your metabolic rate slows even more than just dieting and can slow to 30 percent of normal if you take in 900 cals or less.

    You'll still lose weight mind you, just much slower, and that's your brain trying to preserve what energy it needs in the future.

    So if you are mindful of what you are doing, and go under 1200, and it works for you, have at it. Just be sure to make sure you are eating balanced and as healthy as possible.

    Any friend that deleted you, well, there is hope that some day they will be more educated. For now...feel free to friend me if you like. I'll keep you on board. I like active people who try hard to do the right thing!
  • girl_afraid82
    girl_afraid82 Posts: 178 Member
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    I'll admit, I do try not to have people on my friends list that net low calories... but that's mainly because I like to have friends who work towards similar goals as myself. I struggle to support anyone who consistently undereats, as personally I don't feel it's healthy.

    However... I do look at people as individuals. If someone was eating super healthy clean food, and only dropping below their goals every so often, I'd probably stay friends with them. If someone is only eating 800 calories of junk a day, then that does nothing to inspire me at all, so I'd drop them.

    In the past I have befriended people with eating disorders, people who freak out about being 5 calories over goal, people who abuse diet pills, people who use all their calories on alcohol and people who swing between various faddy diets and then cry when they don't work. It was mentally draining seeing things like that on my feed, so I put down my own rules.

    At the end of the day, I'm here for me. I want to surround myself with people who eat a similar level of calories as myself, have a similar outlook on food and exercise and inspire me to carry on. It may be selfish, but after being here all year you start to worry less about what everyone thinks haha!
  • texastango
    texastango Posts: 309
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    "Starvation mode", or adapted thermogenics as its actually called, refers to chronic severe caloric restriction over the long term. Semantics aside, there are plenty of studies out there with findings that suggest maintaining a large caloric deficit, chronically, can have serious repercussions (especially for females): depressed Resting Metabolic Rate, Amenorrhea, hair loss, leptin and cortisol imbalance, disruption in LH pulsatility and ovarian function, reduced bone mass density, etc..
    .

    Well put and I'm glad someone at least posts a reference to back their point. I actually agree with the study, but believe the OPwas referring to intermittent large calorie deficit and not "Chronic". That said, this does point out the potential down side of too much (or not enough) of something has it's concequences too.
  • MissTomGettingThin
    MissTomGettingThin Posts: 776 Member
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    *sigh*
  • Carfoodel
    Carfoodel Posts: 481 Member
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    I have removed someone for their calorie intake - it made me feel uncomfortable as I have had an ED in the past and I can get very obsessive and competitive - but I am fighting that as much as I can and seeing someone who's calorie intake was cancelling out the food intake every day was making me feel more and more uncomfortable. It's my MFP and I will use it any way I want to.

    I am trying really hard to get as fit and healthy as possible and folk that starve themselves or try for extremes consistently just remind me of how fixated I can get - so hell yes I remove them

    I also remove folk if they have been on my FL for a month or more and we have never actually "talked" to each other, especially if they go awol all the time and when they do come back we still don't talk. I am sure people have removed me for any reason from annoying the crap out of them with my musings, to a different approach or because we don't really connect *shrug*

    if someone has a closed dairy, doesn't do exercise and doesn't ever say how they are doing, then for me I don't see the benefit of having them as friends - just means they are using MFP without the social aspect - which is fine too. But won't lose sleep over someone removing me - except some people that I have met on here who are fun and inspiring that I have made genuine connections with.
  • vancoolie
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    I'm quite sensitive and would have probably felt similar, but I suppose the world is filled with all sorts of personalities that see things completely differently and this sort of thing will always happen when you expose yourself to them.

    As we only connect online, you can't really judge if your 'friends' are people you would naturally get on with in real life, and certainly not discuss your private life with.

    Making the decision to turn your life around to lose weight and get fit is a big deal, in my book, also registering with a site like this and publishing your food and exercise keeps you enthused and inspired. The anonymity makes life easier if you find discussing this sort of thing with friends and family in great detail difficult, especially if they aren't very supportive.

    Good luck, you have lots of great support, you don't need personalities like that in your friends list, they did you a favour by removing themselves as obviously not the kind of friend you need.

    :smile: :smile: :smile:
  • texastango
    texastango Posts: 309
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    At the end of the day, I'm here for me. I want to surround myself with people who eat a similar level of calories as myself, have a similar outlook on food and exercise and inspire me to carry on. It may be selfish, but after being here all year you start to worry less about what everyone thinks haha!

    Point well taken. And there you have it. Both sides of the arguement with valid points. In the end, she is quiet right, MFP is a tool for you to use and use as you wish to obtain your goals. Open diary, closed diary, lots of friends, no friends, it doesn't matter. Do what helps you be successful and that can change over time. Do what you need to do and find people who make you laugh, share similar goals, or help you along the way just because they are role models or encourage you. Nough said.
  • Tarek307
    Tarek307 Posts: 29
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    why do you care??? you should be eating less than 1200 anyways to lose weight quick, i take phentermine, eat only 800 or 1,000 calories and work out every day...for protein & nutriets i drink protein shakes & eat things like HONEY + take some viatamins
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    I found your post very interesting. I have not been on here a month yet and this disturbs me. I thought the message boards were meant for encouragement and support not critiquing and judgement.
    Personally, I would much prefer that what I'm doing is critiqued and judged than people 'encouraging' me even if they think I'm wrong.

    Ideally with some research to back up their own opinions, which will help me form my own.

    I've gone periods of time with large deficits and not had a problem myself; though when I had a fair bit to lose. I upped my calories (and joined MFP) as I was getting closer to my goals.

    2lb a week (7000 calories) is the 'accepted norm'. But that doesn't quite seem to make sense as being generic and across the board. Somewhere I saw an equation which included the amount of fat you had, which seems to make a bit more sense.
  • MessyLittlePanda
    MessyLittlePanda Posts: 213 Member
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    Man, I wish I could be full on 1200 calories a day! I can't do it. I don't function. But I have health problems that make it a bad idea for me. So I eat more, and I exercise a fair bit. I don't judge people who do low calorie diets, but if someone asks for an opinion on their diary, and they frequently net below 1200 calories, I'll likely tell them "get more vitamins down you and eat more a few days". But the key is whether the opinion is solicited or not.

    I agree there is no "magic number" and it's about what works for you. But at the end of the day MFP is a support system and frequently people prefer to have people in their support system who follow the same/similar methods they do. And if someone has had a problem with an ED in the past, or knows someone close to them who has, then maybe yeah they might not want to support that style of eating. I knew someone at work who never ate above 1000 cals and she was underweight. I wouldn't want to have that sort of friend on MFP, because that's borderline ED to me - MFP isn't pro-ana, and I won't congratulate someone for doing that to themselves. But she was a good couple of stone underweight, so that's different to someone doing it who has the weight to lose. A few people will get addicted to losing weight, and not want to stop, so I reckon it's important to plan ahead for weight maintenance and how to gradually increase calorie intake so it doesn't all pile back on, but nor do you get stuck in a place where your metabolism can't cope with more food and you have to stay at 1200 calories the rest of your days!
  • hippychickuk
    hippychickuk Posts: 93 Member
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    I totally agree with most replies here that mfp is your tool, use it how it like. Your food lifestyle is your choice whether it's clean eating or pizza (pizza... yum... sorry, distracted there for a second). For me, I figure long term success is making sure I can have a glass of wine at night at still lose weight. Would I lose faster and more consistently if I didn't drink? yep, but that's not how I want to do it. So I guess you can either make your mfp friends understand your strategy if you feel that's worth the effort, or just let it go.

    As for starvation mode, I think the problem with it is that it gets called "starvation mode." There was a sentence in the blog post the OP referenced that basically sums it up: "In the end, it's important to consume enough calories that you have the energy to perform the daily activities you want to and to keep your body healthy." I find that when I under-eat (which for me seems to be less than 1500 cals/day) my BMR really slows down (well, and there's the wine..) and my weight loss stalls. So eat more to weigh less has really helped me understand where to put my daily calorie target.

    It's all eat right an exercise isn't it? :)
  • rjsimpson2002
    rjsimpson2002 Posts: 115 Member
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    I've seen some diaries on here of people who don't eat anywhere near 1200 and eat crappy food - if they are my friends then I will comment on that because I am worried about their health. The only reason I will de-friend someone is if they NEVER comment on my food / exercise but only talk about themselves...after all friendship should be give and take.
  • kittyconni
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    I never get up to 1200 calories. I go to the Metabolic Research Center. (I have since March). I follow their diet plan and I eat until I am full. I MIGHT, on a GOOD day, get 700 calories. I exercise on my nights off work and never eat back my exercise calories. This is MY plan that I follow from MRC. I have lost almost 60 pounds since March and for me it is sustainable because I have found healthy foods that I like and new ways to prepare foods thanks to my Metabolic center. I also work nights (7p-7a) and sleep through lunch so I am on the 2 meal plan. I always eat breakfast and dinner with a couple of healthy snacks during my shift at night. If you would like a friend who doesn't judge you by your caloric intake, feel free to add me!
  • Rachlmale
    Rachlmale Posts: 640 Member
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    To be honest I'm pretty picky on which friends I keep when they're people I don't know personally. I've deleted a couple of people because I think their eating habits are terrible and to be honest I just don't want to read about it. If it works for them, good for them but it's not the way I want my journey to be.

    I don't think I've deleted anyone for eating too little though, I'm usually under as well because of my exercise but I do make sure I eat 1,200 each day. I tend to delete people who have fast food or take away on a regular basis... I've made a huge effort to change my eating habits and I don't want to read about people who may have stayed within the calorie limit but by eating rubbish. I don't want to think I can eat that stuff, I know I can but I'd rather not so I choose not to read about it.

    I'm here for lifestyle changes and to change my attitude towards food, some people just don't help your journey, those people have to go.


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  • sunshine2212677
    sunshine2212677 Posts: 88 Member
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    very interesting article.
    i think that people areall different, and what works and makes someone else happy may not make another happy.

    this iste is about support and help, and it has been great for me.
    it disapoints me that someone was that judgemental towards another persongoing through a similar struggle.
    whatever their reasons behind it, they should have kept their negative opinions to themselves and concentrate on the positive.

    "If you cant say something nice, say nothing at all"

    x
  • hamiltonba
    hamiltonba Posts: 474 Member
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    First, I am sorry that you are upset that this person deleted you from their friend list. If this was someone that you were friends with outside of myfitness, then yes, you have every right to be hurt. However, if that is not the case, I am confused by how upset you are. If you get this hurt by someone you don't even know, how are you with actual friend/family relationships? This might be something that you might want to address and might also help you with self esteem and confidence issue thus ultimately assisting you with your healthy lifestyle. Second, this "friend" wrote you a note telling you why they were deleting you? I find that very odd that someone would tell you why.
  • wingchunrick
    wingchunrick Posts: 267 Member
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    Please read my post "How to repair a damaged metabolism and starvation mode".
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
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    I wouldn't delete someone for how much they eat, because I'm not their nanny and don't check their diaries.

    I will delete someone who constantly complains how they "screwed up" or "binged" or "ate so much" when they have several hundred calories left after the so-called "binge." I'll offer advice and encouragement for a while, but if common sense falls on deaf ears... bu-bye.
  • PrimalGirl
    PrimalGirl Posts: 148 Member
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    Hi, I think in cases like this you need to realise the figures on here are a guide. They're generalised - who really knows how many calories they burn? Because MFP says 10 minutes of walking briskly burns 90 calories (example) doesn't mean you will. One person might burn 20, because they're already fit. Someone else might burn 150. How many cals you burn at rest is also approximate. In my opinion, don't worry.

    Oh, and there's no such thing as starvation mode - unless you don't eat anything for over 72 hours. What there is, on a traditional high-carb diet, is insulin spikes and crashes caused by food. High carb = high insulin = insulin crash a few hours later, which people interpret as starvation mode.

    Sorry if that there above sounded preachy. :0)