Supplement for muscle training

I'm 190 right now with about 20 more pounds to lose I'd say. You still think eating at a surplus and bulking is the right move? I always figured I'd cut down to 170 while also working out to get cut, and then bulk afterwards.

depends on your height and bodyfat.
If you're 6 feet tall or more, then yes, you should be bulking at that size.

Otherwise I can understand wanting to lean out and that's fine if thats your goal. No one wants to be sloppy.

I'd say creatine is optional. BCAA - definitely helps with recovery i've found. whey protein - easy way of getting protein into your system quickly after a workout. A decent multi-vitamin to help replenish your body and detoxify the body. Flaxseed oil/fish oil for joints etc.

I wouldn't focus too much on supplements mainly as most can be found in food.

I was always curious on what dictates if a supplement is pre or post. Is Whey supposed to be Post?

I recently bought Trutein which is 40% Whey, 40% Casein, 20% Egg White. I believe that is a post and not a pre. Anyone confirm?

If you are bulking, ideally you will have enough amino's running thru you already not to require you have to use anything. I however would rather have more than enough so would person (when bulking) have 20g of protein (whey concentrate is fine here) and either some fruit or a relatively fast digesting carb (with about 20g of carbs). If cutting I'd have simply protein pre-workout as simple carbs will blunt fat loss due to increased insulin levels.

Intraworkout in both bulking and cutting, I use BCAA drinks. This allows me to have my protein synthesis work none stop and not halt as the body releases its down.

Finally post, I use 1:1 protein carbs when bulking, around 40g of each of fast digesting isolate and carbs, such as vitrago. AGAIN however many will argue for the none body builder who is not concerned about muscle gain, this is not required. I however DO want as much muscle as possible so use all the weapons in my arsenal as possible!

Alot of what you're saying is broscience.

Nothing wrong with consuming simple carbs even when cutting as long as you meet your minimum protein macros and are eating in a deficit, you will burn fat.

BCAA's aren't required if protein intake is sufficient.

Vitargo = Oats = Rice = Potatoes......

Oh really shove off with your bro-science lines, please? Did you actually READ what I posted? I posted that MANY WILL ARGUE THIS IS NOT REQUIRED. Jesus. This is my personal opinion having read many peer to peer studies. Since when did you become the judge, juror and executioner on here?

However having gone sub 5% many times and gained 39lb muscle in the last few years, I think my attempts and understanding are not too shabby.

The fact I coach many guys and everyone bar one has made the finals of the fed they are in on their first attempt suggest I also have a good understanding of science. What I suggest works, I have my own guys to show my methods work.

"A study conducted by researchers at Pennsylvania State University (University Park) found that subjects following a low-calorie diet with carbs coming only from whole grains lost significantly more abdominal fat than those following a low-calorie diet with carbs from refined sources."

If you want the science - http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/1/79.full

BCAA's when bulking may not be required for the average gym rat, i'd agree, I said the same. However in a calorie deficient state they have been shown to be used by the body as energy in preference to muscle and can thus protect the muscle you have. I can dig the study up on this if you like.

Honestly, there is quite a marked difference between someone who diets down on complex carbs to one who diets down on a mixture. Whilst physics tells us that a calorie is a calorie, what it doesn't tell us is how the body deals with the said digestion of said calorie and how effective the body is utilizing said calorie.

But thro the bro-science insults around, you'll never bring any proof to the party of what is said, just slanted insults, so carry on!

Honestly, there is quite a marked difference between someone who diets down on complex carbs to one who diets down on a mixture. Whilst physics tells us that a calorie is a calorie, what it doesn't tell us is how the body deals with the said digestion of said calorie and how effective the body is utilizing said calorie.

But thro the bro-science insults around, you'll never bring any proof to the party of what is said, just slanted insults, so carry on!

Agree partially.
But probably in the opposite way you're thinking.

Simple carbs can be utilized better than complex carbs if you're using a backloading protocol. Because you want the quick insulin spike post training, that goes away before bed.
Having raised insulin levels at nighttime inhibits GH production. So eating something like brown rice or oats late night after training would actually be detrimental in that case............

There's two sides to every BS arguement......

I'll agree to disagree. I coach people to sub 5% body fat. I have lots of clients that will atest to this so I'm not gonna debate what clearly woks because you know some theory that you've never followed thro...

L arginine and glutamine prob aren't doing much

I noticed a substantial lessening of soreness when I started adding glutamine to my protein shake.

When substantially depleted, they both can add to fullness in terms of blood into the muscle when one trains, esp important on leg and back days, , both large muscle groups, which will enable one to push a little harder and retain the muscle one has built. Glutamine is also a good one for the immune system.

Before you say look at studies and there is none, try getting yourself into a depleted state and use it. You will find a marked difference and no, you won't find any studies showing this as how often do you expect companies will pay for this kind of testing? Not very often.

It is also used for burns and trauma victims which also imply (but not yet shown admittedly) may well have some mild tissue repair ability.