Convince me (or not) that Paleo makes sense
Replies
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Humans have been eating grains for a significant amount of time (specific teeth developed solely for that purpose).
Any and all "diets" revolve around blaming one set of food or foods for ALL the weight problems. Yeah, whole grains, potatoes, and rice makes us fat. That is exactly why medieval Europe and Asia were completely fully of obese citizens.
However, any diet that does restrict foods tends to offer some success. The sheer act of restricting an items wholesale that the person usually does consume will almost always result in fewer calories being consumed.
Humans did NOT get to where we are in the food chain by being finicky eaters. So the whole idea that all this stuff is toxic to us is also ridiculous.
If you find yourself intolerant or allergic to certain items (Dairy, gluten, peanuts, etc.) then obviously avoid those. Otherwise, there is no reason to adhere to a specific restrictive diet unless it only restricts calories or restricts foods you have a moral reason to avoid (Some vegetarians come to mind).0 -
I don't know much, but I had a good friend who was Paleo that told me one at a bar night "Red wine and Guinness are Paleo!"
Hmmmmmm.
That lead me to believe that it was a contradiction--I can have wine but I can't have a piece of fruit? I'm going to assume the cavemen weren't enjoying a nice cold Guinness draft on their days off.
Also, do we realize how different we are from Paleolithic era cavemen? We are not the same as they were, in any way. So, it's a hard sell for me to believe that I should get in touch with my primal roots for optimum health.
That being said, feel free to prove me wrong with facts. These are just my general impressions from my exposure to the diet.
You really choose to judge the lifestyle based on one person's justifications for what they eat? I do what works for me, sometimes it includes a food that isn't completely "paleo" such as red wine, but I don't justify it. I'm actually a little more "primal" than "paleo" but all of those terms are pretty meaningless; I just eat what is healthy for ME.
Please, do some research. Paleo includes fruit. And, newsflash, humans are still genetically the same as pre-agriculture. Evolution does not occur in 10,000 years (you could double check with anthropological archaeologists on that). The way we eat now bears NO resemblance to our original hunter/gatherer diet. But don't take my word for it, you can do what I did, RESEARCH. History, anthropology, politics, nutrition, biology, etc. Fascinating stuff, really. And, don't just stick your nose in a book, go get some real life experience and check out your aboriginal neighbours (if they weren't completely obliterated). Trust me, they know a thing or two about how the world works.0 -
Read 'It starts with food' and you will get all the reasons and science behind the whole elimination of certain foods. Afterwards you can decide for yourself whether it makes sense for you or not.0
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A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
Already irritable + Paleo diet (more irritable) + internet access (even more irritable) = Uh Oh. This isn't going to turn out well.0 -
A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
Already irritable + Paleo diet (more irritable) + internet access (even more irritable) = Uh Oh. This isn't going to turn out well.
It isnt, and doesnt have to be low carb.0 -
A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
Already irritable + Paleo diet (more irritable) + internet access (even more irritable) = Uh Oh. This isn't going to turn out well.
Is 150g of carbs daily considered "very low carb"? I seldom fall below that amount.
And I'm definitely not irritable.
I guess I'm doing it wrong.0 -
A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
Already irritable + Paleo diet (more irritable) + internet access (even more irritable) = Uh Oh. This isn't going to turn out well.
:laugh:0 -
Hi All,
I have never really understood the 'paleo' basics. Besides the fact that semantically the diet makes little sense I want the reason why things like legumes, peanut butter, potatoes, dairy are off limits. I can go with the idea that gains aren't the purest form of what we should be eating (even if I don't adhere and eat whole grains) and even dairy to some extent but I struggle intuitively with the other stuff.
I also am not looking for "I eat paleo and feel great" but more concrete reasons why physically we as a species should not consume these items. If you tell me it has a certain effect on the body I would like a medical study I can look at to learn more.
Finally, I often get the impression Paleo is a bit 'all or nothing'. There are certain non-Paelo items I will never give up. Full stop. Is there benefit/room for a modified version?
IMHO, it comes down to portions. Not one specific group of foods; be it protein/carb/fats.
That being said... I am following a path of nutritional ketosis and the ingestion of carbs knocks down the levels of beta-hydroxy buterate (BHOB) due to the increased levels of insulin that result from the carbs being eaten. Hence I eliminate carbs for the most part (~5% of my caloric intake instead of around 60-65%).
There's a plethora of information on ketogenic diets here: www.reddit.com/r/keto It has a simple FAQ and citations to literature if you're interested in that. It is not the same as the Paleo diet though. Keto allows nuts and dairy but shys away from most fruits (sugars in them).
Paleo in it's natural state is really just a plan of how to eat foods. You simply strive to eliminate pre-agricultural products from your diet.... essentially no processed foods. It is not designed around being a weight loss miracle, it doesn't ascribe to a certain marconutrient ratio make up (keto does) and it certainly isn't designed to induce ketosis (but it can occur if you don't have carbs from fruits to offset the lack of processed grains/sugars).
All in all you could consider the paleo (paleolithic for long names) diet as the "ancestor" diet. Just imagine modelling the foods you allow to be available to yourself based off of seasonal availability. Strive for grass fed meat sources, free range chicken and egg, etc.
Ultimately it's trying to get away from processed foods that our bodies aren't so readily adapted to eating and efficiently digesting. It works great for some and not so much for others.0 -
A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
Already irritable + Paleo diet (more irritable) + internet access (even more irritable) = Uh Oh. This isn't going to turn out well.
Is 150g of carbs daily considered "very low carb"? I seldom fall below that amount.
And I'm definitely not irritable.
I guess I'm doing it wrong.
In reality consider it in relation to your total daily caloric intake. I target roughly 5% of my calories to be from carb sources and that turns out to be just above 20g per day.
On average you can expect the body to get 4 calories per gram of carb or protein and a whopping 9 calories per gram of fat. Alcohol also sports around 7 calories per gram as well.0 -
A Paleo diet is very low carbs.
All I can say here is "Wrong"... Unless "very low" means under 80%...A side effect of going low carb is being irritable.
A side effect of going high carb "is" irritability of the bowel.Discussions on the internet can make you irritable.
I'll give you that one... :laugh:0 -
In cases where giving up grains, nightshade vegetables and legumes causes one to feel better, whether it is due to an intolerance, illness or placebo effect, I think Paleo is great. But the nonsense about whole grains, nightshades and legumes being unhealthy for humans in general is just that - utter nonsense.
Ask any trained nutrition expert and they'll tell you the same. Believing that foods are "bad" for everyone and should be eliminated is a form of eating disorder (Google orthorexia).
If you want good science based nutrition advice I'd suggest starting with the Harvard School of Public Health
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/
As a leading nutrition research organization, their advice is evidence based and they cite the evidence in the articles.0 -
I am highly suspicious of any plan that advocates eliminating entire food groups. YMMMV.
^^^ Ditto0 -
I am highly suspicious of any plan that advocates eliminating entire food groups. YMMMV.
^^^ Ditto
Yeah, whatever you do, you certainly don't want to challenge the infallibility of the food groups.
I, for one, welcome the wisdom of the Department of Agriculture as our benevolent food overlords.0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?0 -
Hi All,
I have never really understood the 'paleo' basics. Besides the fact that semantically the diet makes little sense I want the reason why things like legumes, peanut butter, potatoes, dairy are off limits. I can go with the idea that gains aren't the purest form of what we should be eating (even if I don't adhere and eat whole grains) and even dairy to some extent but I struggle intuitively with the other stuff.
I also am not looking for "I eat paleo and feel great" but more concrete reasons why physically we as a species should not consume these items. If you tell me it has a certain effect on the body I would like a medical study I can look at to learn more.
Finally, I often get the impression Paleo is a bit 'all or nothing'. There are certain non-Paelo items I will never give up. Full stop. Is there benefit/room for a modified version?
Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't really care if you are convinced (or not) that paleo makes sense for you. I don't see my role in this as being a missionary for any one approach, even if it's the approach I choose to take for myself. Besides, the information you need to make an informed decision is *out there* (but most likely won't be *in here*).
Regardless, best of luck with your journey, however you choose to pursue it.0 -
Read 'It starts with food' and you will get all the reasons and science behind the whole elimination of certain foods. Afterwards you can decide for yourself whether it makes sense for you or not.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I would imagine they are talking about things like hunger due to lack of nutrition vs hunger do to lack of sustenance or mental hunger vs physical hunger. I for one could eat an entire pizza and sometimes still be "hungry" afterward... but thats just my take on what they said...0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I'm refering to the constant struggle with hunger, cravings, binging that occurs when I eat a "normal" diet. I mean that I am only hungry now when my body really needs food, and then it's not uncomfortable and I have no need to over eat.
I can't count the posts that I've read to the effect of "help me, I'm always hungry" or "I can't stop eating", whatever. Yup, that was me, BEFORE.0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I would imagine they are talking about things like hunger due to lack of nutrition vs hunger do to lack of sustenance or mental hunger vs physical hunger. I for one could eat an entire pizza and sometimes still be "hungry" afterward... but thats just my take on what they said...
Exactly. I could eat enough junk to provide the calories for 10 people and still be hungry. It's amazing that I didn't reach 1000 pounds actually. But I was awful close to getting full-blown type 2 diabetes, all while knowing exactly how to eat to be healthy. I just didn't want to give up the crap that was killing me. But my child deserves better than that, and so do I.0 -
I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.0
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I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.
Actually, it is the monoculture of wheat, corn, soy, cotton, aquaculture etc that is not environmentally sustainable. Do some research please. What's happening in India is a good place to start. Food, and what we are "encouraged" to consume is far more a political issue than a health issue, and definitely NOT an environmental issue. Polyculture is much better for the environment and feeds far more people than monoculture, but don't believe me, investigate for yourself!
Eat what you want. Yes, some people can eat beans, many cannot. So eat them but don't assume that everyone can.
Well, I decided that I would rather NOT die prematurely and that's why I went paleo/primal/low carb or whatever one wants to call it.0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I'm refering to the constant struggle with hunger, cravings, binging that occurs when I eat a "normal" diet. I mean that I am only hungry now when my body really needs food, and then it's not uncomfortable and I have no need to over eat.
I can't count the posts that I've read to the effect of "help me, I'm always hungry" or "I can't stop eating", whatever. Yup, that was me, BEFORE.
Interesting. Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry. It is interesting to me that you chose such a restrictive diet that would possibly meet the criteria for orthorexia, another psychological disorder, to cure your binges.
I don't mean that as in insult. I'm glad you found a way to get healthy, but it would be an interesting research topic, don't you think?0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I would imagine they are talking about things like hunger due to lack of nutrition vs hunger do to lack of sustenance or mental hunger vs physical hunger. I for one could eat an entire pizza and sometimes still be "hungry" afterward... but thats just my take on what they said...
Truly hungry after eating an entire pizza? Or thinking "Gee, that was so yummy I'd like some more" even though you were already full.
Though pizza can be nutritionally balanced if you make it so.0 -
Yeah, I thought that too after seeing 20 years worth of magazine articles and talk shows talking about eating your emotions and how you have to get in touch with your feelings and all that to lose weight. For ME -- not you or anyone else -- that was a bunch of BS. Within about three weeks of cutting out grains and eating a low carb, high fat whole foods based diet all of my "emotional" problems with food disappeared.Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry.
I imagine there's a lot of people out there who think they have some sort of eating disorder that don't realize the problem is a physical one brought on by the food they're eating and not psychological at all.0 -
I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.
i eat meat and some type of veggie (not alwasy fresh)every day, it's fairly cheap and sustainable.
I think paleo people are crazy, though0 -
so essentially, I have tried Paleo a couple of times, but I have not had the discpipline or resolve to stick with it for very long. After my latest (and longest) stint though, I had a very low tolerance to starches and any grains or flour. I want to do what is best for my body and if those things cause my body to not function the way that it should I don't want them in my diet whether it makes me Paleo or not.0
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while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I would imagine they are talking about things like hunger due to lack of nutrition vs hunger do to lack of sustenance or mental hunger vs physical hunger. I for one could eat an entire pizza and sometimes still be "hungry" afterward... but thats just my take on what they said...
Truly hungry after eating an entire pizza? Or thinking "Gee, that was so yummy I'd like some more" even though you were already full.
Though pizza can be nutritionally balanced if you make it so.
Not the way I used to eat it... :laugh:0 -
while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).
I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?
I'm refering to the constant struggle with hunger, cravings, binging that occurs when I eat a "normal" diet. I mean that I am only hungry now when my body really needs food, and then it's not uncomfortable and I have no need to over eat.
I can't count the posts that I've read to the effect of "help me, I'm always hungry" or "I can't stop eating", whatever. Yup, that was me, BEFORE.
Interesting. Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry. It is interesting to me that you chose such a restrictive diet that would possibly meet the criteria for orthorexia, another psychological disorder, to cure your binges.
I don't mean that as in insult. I'm glad you found a way to get healthy, but it would be an interesting research topic, don't you think?
Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be long before someone tried to throw the imaginary illness of "orthorexia" in my face. I am nowhere near as strict with my food as I should be exactly because I have no such disorder. I don't think the disorder exists but someone with OCD could certainly manifest the traits. No I do not have OCD. lol So, wanting to eat healthy to be healthy and to help my child be healthy is orthorexic???
If binge eating is only a psychological disorder, why was it only finally resolved by eating a certain way? Do you think I didn't try WW and all the high carb/low fat recommendations a thousand times? Also, my extreme depression and anxiety have been remedied as well. And a huge long list of physical health problems too.
I knew that I was over-eating and couldn't possibly need more food but I have done lots of research and there are processes in the body that when damaged by poor nutrition don't work properly. Hunger signals is just one of those processes.
Yes, further research (that isn't adulterated by a financial agenda of any kind) is definitely needed, but research does include real-life experience of real people. Research isn't just done in a lab. Do you really think that agri-business, the health industry, government agencies, food processors, etc really want us to stop eating wheat, corn, soy, etc? Yeah, not likely.0 -
I looked at the Paleo diet. Saw I couldn't have whole grains and immediately clicked back off the page. Healthy life wheat toast has been a staple of mine at breakfast and even a slice before bed if I'm too hungry to sleep. Just eating right covers the majority of the Paleo program. I suppose I will kinda be on it for 10 more pounds, when I eliminate carbs and go Keto for a while (I'll still eat legumes), but I won't be TRYING to do the diet.
I didn't need to stay away from legumes and whole grains to lose 41 pounds in 90 days, and I won't need it to get where I'm going.0 -
Is there benefit or room for a modified version? Yes.
I don't follow Paleo, but I do appreciate the concept of less processed food, more protein, more fiber, and less refined carbs.
Does that mean I don't eat processed foods? No... It just means I eat less of them than I did previously.
I don't think that food that comes from a powder is ever good for you. So there are some aspects of Paleo that are worth considering.0
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