Stop the Low-Cal Insanity!
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I eat 1200- 1250 a day feel better and have more energy then when I was eating 2300 per day. I want to weigh 115 LBS. I'm only 5'1. My cravings are gone and I sometimes have to force myself to eat just to get to the 1200. In 2 months I have lost 17 LBS.0
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bump to read later - looks very interesting0
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And this is the great thing about anecdotal evidence, especially in regards to something as variable as the human body's workings - generally people will be able to show that most approaches can work for some people.I eat 1200- 1250 a day feel better and have more energy then when I was eating 2300 per day. I want to weigh 115 LBS. I'm only 5'1. My cravings are gone and I sometimes have to force myself to eat just to get to the 1200. In 2 months I have lost 17 LBS.
Sadly so many focus on the way that works for them alone.0 -
In order for it to be a reasonable deficit from TDEE youd have to be very small, old, little activity or post GBS.Did you read the whole article? There is nothing wrong with a 1200 calorie diet if that is a reasonable deficit from your DEE.
Quote from the article:
*Remember that 1,200 calories would be a large deficit for an obese person. Lighter folks have much lower daily energy costs, all things constant, and for some, 1,200 calories would not be unreasonable.
It's a great article.
I've done 100s of numbers and only came across 1 person who fits this.
A sedentary old woman whos about 4'11".......
That's interesting. Who do you typically train? Keep in mind when I wrote what I wrote in the article, I had the outliers of lean women trying to get leaner that I've worked with in mind. I've handled the training and diets for a number of figure competitors and models.
In my time doing what I do for a living, I definitely haven't found it as rare as you... which is why I'm curious about your typical client... if you don't mind.
I mean, using very rough estimates and generalities, 14-16 cals/lb is a ball park for maintenance/tdee for exercising folks who aren't obese.
Take a 120 lb woman.
This would put her at around 1800 for maintenance.
A reasonable deficit might be 35% off of maintenance. In fact, the sweet spot for most of my clients for fat loss tends to fall around 10 cals/lb. So in this hypothetical example, she'd be at around 1200 for fat loss. Granted, if she was doing mass amounts of cardio, I'd up the cal intake. But if she was training under me... she wouldn't be doing that. In addition, her plan would be much more involved than worrying about solely calories. Nutrient breakdown and timing would be heavily focused on as well.
I'll also say that I'm generally an advocate of eating as much energy as possible while still maintaining a reasonable rate of fat loss... so I'm by no means promoting low calorie diets. It's a simple fact though... the smaller folks are, the lower their energy allotments are.
I understand where you are coming from and can see that you are experienced in the field, however I cannot accept that its just about weight and a multiplier.
Of course you will get results when putting the body in a state that requires change.
The formulas I tend to use adds in Age, height, weight, body fat and activity.
If I did simple multiplier for myself id be eating small children at work and I think thats where this conversation started.
Its about finding that reasonable deficit.
you take 120lb woman whos lifting 3x a week giving her a moderate activity level shes probably going to need more food.
I'll do a few examples for us:
SuzyQ is 20, 5'1" 120lbs works out 3x a week 25%BF has a calculated TDEE of 1943
Angela is 32 5'5" 120lbs works out 3x a week 17% body fat has a calculated TDEE of 2089
Henrietta is 72 4'11" 120lbs works out 3x a week 30% body fat has a calculated TDEE of 1852
Henrietta is the one who I can see eating the least while Angela is eating the most.
Your multiplier of 10*body weight is flawed for people who are underweight but skinny fat as well.
You take someone whos 5'5" 18 110lbs BF 30% (we see a lot of skinny fat people on here) and tell them to multiply their body weight by 10 to get their cut cals to lose the fat.
Theyd look like Gollem from Lord of the Rings!
Age
Height
Weight
Body fat%
Activity
These should always determine the number eaten daily.0 -
So many people here have chronically restricted calories for so long their adjusted RMR and TDEE is so far from baseline. Then when they make use of prediction formulas, their decreased energy needs are so far off they start to believe that their current intake is what they truly need. Although it's true those formulas may be inaccurate, by people sabotaging their endocrine system, they're making it unnecessarily more difficult and stressful than needed.
This. When I got here I was maintaining on 900 cals. I didn't realize it had gotten that low. Now almost 2 years later I'm up to maintaining at 1700-1800. Just because you're maintaining on very low calories it doesn't mean it has to be that way, although it has taken patience to get to where I am.
Also if this doesn't work for you because of a medical condition or medication then that's understandable, but you can't necessarily extrapolate that the formula isn't correct because it doesn't work for you. I believe the formula is assuming normal health.0 -
Bump0
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Sadly so many focus on the way that works for them alone.
Why is that sad? Why should I focus on the way that does NOT work for me??0 -
Because often it doesn't work the same for way for other people; so advice given to only do what they do is bad advice.Why is that sad? Why should I focus on the way that does NOT work for me??
Further; personally I think it's always worth considering other options even if what you're doing is working ok - it may be you can get even better results, spend less time etc.
Perhaps I should have clarified "when offering advice to others" - which was the general topic of discussion I thought
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Also, losing weight should be about feeling better, not about quantum mechanics and higher level math. Keep it simple, what works for you works for you. If you can survive on 1200 cal, great. I cannot, i get all moody and mean. 1650 seems to be a good place for me unless I'm on an extreme hungry day.
this i agree with, I think to many people get on sites like this and then begin over thinking things.0 -
Take a 120 lb woman.
This would put her at around 1800 for maintenance.
A reasonable deficit might be 35% off of maintenance.
This makes no sense. Unless this 120 woman wants to lose like 50 pounds, why the hell would she be on a 35% off maintenance deficit? Insane.0 -
bumping to research more when I have time0
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I've found that these forums have a very negative attitude to low calorie diets of any sort.
If you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with letting us choose to do this? It doesn't effect anyone else.
800 Cals a day is an eating disorder unless you are supervised by a doctor and/or have had some sort of surgery for that. People aren't meaning to attack - just help. Google Auschwitz + calories. Non-labor prisoners ate 1200-1300 calories. Light work was about 1700 calories, and strenuous work was 2100. These numbers are well documented along with testimony from survivors. I really don't think people are trying to be malicious here, just concerned. But hey - it's your body. Some of us that eat more have possibly walked a mile in your shoes. Just sayin'
I definitely wouldnt say I have an eating disorder... In the last 3 days I have ranged between 538-920. Simple fact is I am not hungry alot of the time. I would hate to see what my body fat % would be. At a guess I would say 20%
I'm the same Just proves that everyone is different.
This does nothing to prove everyone is different. We are not very different at all. Intraspecies variations create the need to make only *small* adjustments when it comes to figuring out a healthy calorie deficit *unless* there is a genuine medical issue creating a larger difference. And those adjustments need to come from figuring body fat percentage and actual BMR/RMR and TDEE.
I was losing weight and then maintaining on 800-900 calories a day for a while. This was quite unknowingly on my part (this was pre-MFP). I ate the same things daily, with only small variations, which is how I know I was eating that much. I *never* felt hungry. Unfortunately, our bodies become accustomed to the amount of food we eat and, in lay terms, adjust our hunger signals accordingly. (If someone wants to they can come in and explain the hormonal response/suppression involved in this in scientific terms. I think someone may have already mentioned leptin at some point). It's great to say "I'm not starving"/"I'm never hungry"/"I only eat when I'm hungry," but for those of us who have been under-eating or over-eating for a while, we are having a communication issue with our bodies. Sure, some of us might be able to relearn how to eat that way, but a lot of us may not. Malnutrition can take a while to manifest itself in symptoms that people will notice, so why wait to see if you get any symptoms you'll notice? Just give your body what it needs by eating an adequate amount of nutritious food, even if you don't hear it telling you that it needs more than 1000 calories a day. I say this particularly to you, poster Moosycakes, at 18 years old, and consistently eating *under* 1000 calories a day with a personal goal of only 800 calories a day.0 -
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Quote: True! Could not eat lettuce all day...actually at all really....but you have to remember that some people have a more limited range of options due to allergies or intolerances. I have had gastrointestinal issues since i was young which has left me with a number of serious allergies and intolerances (such as rices, mushrooms, tomatoes, potatoes, dairy, pomegranates etc) which adds extra difficulty in food choices, and also means constant watch of food packets ... it can admittedly make you a but disallusioned a lot of the time and hesitant to try new foods
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You bring up a great point. I have Hemochromatosis (iron overload) so I can't eat a lot of foods "fortified" with iron so that means cereal, bread, rice, beans, beef, venison, etc are a no no. My diet HAS to consist of eggs, vegetables, chicken, fish, protein shakes, fruit and other low iron foods. Pretty much anything in a box is going to be fortified with iron so I stick to whole foods. People don't take personal health issues into consideration when they are giving advice.0 -
Just curious, I was eating a healthy diet - 90% homemade, non-processed food (I love cooking) - the rest was eating out - but I did have starches / carbs frequently. I couldn't lose weight - was stuck at 200lbs. I did weight watchers religiously weighing measuring everything at 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight after 6 months (and no, I didn't go nuts w/ fruit since I don't particularly like them, just had 2 servings a day). I started w/ a personal trainer for another 6 months and didn't lose. I had to quit when I blew out my knees and needed PT and rehab.
Finally had a Resting Metabolic Rate test at the hospital, and my RMR is 1100 - way under what my endo expected. I kept telling him I wasn't eating 3000 calories a day, but he insisted that I must be to maintain that weight. I had a body fat measurement done and it came back at something like 70% but it was an impedance device not hospital based. My scale at home shows 54% body fat to begin with and is now down to 42%.
I wasn't exercising because I have moderate to severe arthritis in l4/l5 and my SI joints so cardio exercise except for swimming is really painful, even standing for more than 5 minutes is painful. So, I know I have lost muscle mass over the past 3 years.
Does this even make sense?
I just lost 25 pounds on HCG (40 day protocol). I'm in my 2nd week of phase 3 - 1500-2000 calories a day and maintaining the weight so far. I'm fairly happy w/ the food choices - I got rid of my sugar / starch cravings. My diet is even more clean than before because I've added many more vegetables on a daily basis.
Don't castigate me - I've never heard of the concept all of you are talking about - eating many more calories than I would have expected to lose weight. Just curious as to what calorie range I would be looking at to lose 25 pounds more without doing another HCG round.0 -
Just curious, I was eating a healthy diet - 90% homemade, non-processed food (I love cooking) - the rest was eating out - but I did have starches / carbs frequently. I couldn't lose weight - was stuck at 200lbs. I did weight watchers religiously weighing measuring everything at 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight after 6 months (and no, I didn't go nuts w/ fruit since I don't particularly like them, just had 2 servings a day). I started w/ a personal trainer for another 6 months and didn't lose. I had to quit when I blew out my knees and needed PT and rehab.
Finally had a Resting Metabolic Rate test at the hospital, and my RMR is 1100 - way under what my endo expected. I kept telling him I wasn't eating 3000 calories a day, but he insisted that I must be to maintain that weight. I had a body fat measurement done and it came back at something like 70% but it was an impedance device not hospital based. My scale at home shows 54% body fat to begin with and is now down to 42%.
I wasn't exercising because I have moderate to severe arthritis in l4/l5 and my SI joints so cardio exercise except for swimming is really painful, even standing for more than 5 minutes is painful. So, I know I have lost muscle mass over the past 3 years.
Does this even make sense?
I just lost 25 pounds on HCG (40 day protocol). I'm in my 2nd week of phase 3 - 1500-2000 calories a day and maintaining the weight so far. I'm fairly happy w/ the food choices - I got rid of my sugar / starch cravings. My diet is even more clean than before because I've added many more vegetables on a daily basis.
Don't castigate me - I've never heard of the concept all of you are talking about - eating many more calories than I would have expected to lose weight. Just curious as to what calorie range I would be looking at to lose 25 pounds more without doing another HCG round.
If you are now maintaining at an average of 1750 cals, try lowering it to 1500 and see if you lose. In theory, you should lose 1/2 pound per week if you do that.
And continue eating healthy like you are. You don't have to do the HCG again to lose. Just take it slow and easy and make these changes for life.0 -
Very sensible comments! 0
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Very sensible comments!
Agreed. I'm not low-carb on purpose. I'm no gluten, which naturally cuts out a lot of pasta and bread options. I get carbs in the form of veggies, fruit and my amazing almond crackers. I guess I'm not "low-carb" per say, but compared to the average person I suppose I am. I do it only because pasta and bread were causing me so much pain.0 -
We’ll assume she needs 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean body mass. Some experts recommend more, some less, but it’s a good middle number to work with. She has 140 pounds of LBM, so she needs 140 grams of protein. Eat too much less than this, and you risk losing muscle. Not good. Since 1 gram of protein is 4 calories, she needs 560 calories of protein every day.
I'm confused....
I recently learned in a nutrition class that the RDA for protein in an average person is 0.8 grams per KILOGRAM and 1 to 1.5 grams per KILOGRAM for an athlete, so where is the 1 gram for every POUND coming from? Multiplying by pounds leads to a protein intake of more than twice the RDA. Calculating using the RDA guidelines, that gives a 140 pound "average" person a protein range of 50 to 95 grams daily (dividing 140 by 2.2 to get 63 kg and multiplying that times 0.8 and 1.5). So a 140 pound woman doesn't NEED 140 grams and 560 calories of protein daily..... Can anyone clarify what I'm missing here????0 -
Don't have time to read properly and I'm tired so I may be mistaken - she said per lb of lean mass rather per lb of total weight.We’ll assume she needs 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean body mass. Some experts recommend more, some less, but it’s a good middle number to work with. She has 140 pounds of LBM, so she needs 140 grams of protein. Eat too much less than this, and you risk losing muscle. Not good. Since 1 gram of protein is 4 calories, she needs 560 calories of protein every day.
I'm confused....
I recently learned in a nutrition class that the RDA for protein in an average person is 0.8 grams per KILOGRAM and 1 to 1.5 grams per KILOGRAM for an athlete, so where is the 1 gram for every POUND coming from? Multiplying by pounds leads to a protein intake of more than twice the RDA. Calculating using the RDA guidelines, that gives a 140 pound "average" person a protein range of 50 to 95 grams daily (dividing 140 by 2.2 to get 63 kg and multiplying that times 0.8 and 1.5). So a 140 pound woman doesn't NEED 140 grams and 560 calories of protein daily..... Can anyone clarify what I'm missing here????0 -
I am currently on a 1200 cal diet and no I dont eat rabbit food, and no Im not hungry. I dont judge anyone out there and how they chose to do their diets. I dont know whats going on in anyone elses life, as well as noone knows anythnig about mine. So if someone wants to be too quick to judge and delete me as a friend, then it would be their loss not mine. If they cared enough to be supportive they would stay around and find out that I cant work out and am under a doctors care for the last 8 months, and am waiting for surgery. Please dont judge someone just based off their calorie intake. 0
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