Calling all cardio vs weights know it alls ;-)
nailtechbec
Posts: 93 Member
Hi, I've read loads of posts about weight training being better than cardio and I can come up with my own conclusions about the fact I should be doing both what I want to know is are workouts such as jillians banish fat boost metabolism and no more trouble zones doing both in her circuits ? When you all say weight training does this count or do I need to get my Arnie on and actually start bench pressing my kids ? Thanks in advance for your advice x x
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what you are doing is excellent but i've read that sprinting is one of the best if not the best training for tonning up and building muscle... burning fat at a faster rate...0
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I have both of those DVDs. BFBM is pretty much all cardio. NMTZ uses weights (small ones but still weights). As far as whether or not it "counts", I guess that depends on what your goals are. I do it when I'm taking a break from serious strength training (like recently when I was having tendon problems with my wrist) and it's a great calorie burn. But my current goal is to be able to bench press 150 lbs and NMTZ isn't likely to get me there.0
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To be considered weight training, you need progressive overload. This means continually increasing the demands on the musculoskeletal system (and CNS, for a while). For practical purposes, this means continually moving forward adding either reps or weight. Jillians workouts could work for a short while, but because of the high-repetitions most people who consider themselves weight lifters consider those workouts endurance with resistance, rather than weight lifting.
Usually to be considered strength training you want to perform an exercise at an appropriate weight such that you hit temporary failure in under 13 reps.
1-5 reps for strength and power
5-8 reps for strength and hypertrophy
8-13 reps for hypertrophy and endurance
13+ reps for endurance.
Note that there is little hypertrophy in the 1-5 rep range. For this reason, stronglifts 5x5 ( 5 sets of 5 reps) is a great program for both men and women, and women can undergo it without fear of looking like Arnold. (not that I agree you can end up that way accidentally, but avoiding hypertrophy training ensures it)0 -
Could I possibly recommend a superb site, it is called Stumptuous.com.
It debunks all the old wives (and husbands) tails about toning, spot reduction, fat loss and muscle gain along with giving superb practical advice.
I agree with you that its a really good idea to combine weights and cardio, if you are a bit on the chunky side then you should start with the weights as the last thing you want to do is damage your knees running too fast and too soon (samne goes for aerobics and weight training is low impact and does far less damage to joints if done correctly). As far as the weights go you should be trying to go as heavy as possible, don't worry about turning into Arnie as your genetics just don't work that way (many female body builders genuinely wish they did).0 -
There is no such thing as anything being "one of the best". Sprinting, walking on the treadmill, etc, are all tools that are meant to be used at a certain time.what you are doing is excellent but i've read that sprinting is one of the best if not the best training for tonning up and building muscle... burning fat at a faster rate...
You're going to have find the right balance between weight training and cardio.0 -
This is weight lifting:
This is not:
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Hahahaha at the pics ! Love it ! I'm really not trying to be dumb, just after reading hundreds of posts about cardio being less effective if your goal is to slim down and tone up I wondered if what I was doing would get me anywhere near what I imagine myself to look like ! I do zumba twice a week and on the days I don't I'm doing a jillian workout, I guess now I need to add some weights or resistance into my week ! I do appreciate your help, thanks very much x0
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I'm interested in this conundrum too......except I suppose it isn't really a conundrum at all, it's just finding a good balance!
I have a good 50 lbs to lose, have done for some years now, and in my 8 years of repeated efforts I have never so much as looked at weights.....I thought it was all about the cardio, and "fat-burning" heart rate zones etc etc. I've completed C25k no less than 3 times, and it kills my knees because I'm so overweight!
Luckily, when reading these forums I stumbled across a site called "Nerdfitness.com". It is really educating me and I read an article every day to keep me motivated.....I thoroughly recommend it.
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If the question is if those and similar dvds count as strength training the answer is "No". Those dvds have their place but they are not the "lifting", "weights", or "strength training" that we are speaking of
edited to add: Wellbert's picture post wins the thread. That is all0 -
bump0
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I'm interested in this conundrum too......except I suppose it isn't really a conundrum at all, it's just finding a good balance!
I have a good 50 lbs to lose, have done for some years now, and in my 8 years of repeated efforts I have never so much as looked at weights.....I thought it was all about the cardio, and "fat-burning" heart rate zones etc etc. I've completed C25k no less than 3 times, and it kills my knees because I'm so overweight!
Luckily, when reading these forums I stumbled across a site called "Nerdfitness.com". It is really educating me and I read an article every day to keep me motivated.....I thoroughly recommend it.
That fat burning zone stuff is complete nonsense- you simultaneously burn fat and glucose at all heart rates. The percentage of calories burnt from fat is higher in the "fat burning zone" but because it's low-intensity activity, the total calories are much lower. The way it works out mathematically, you actually burn more overall fat at higher intensities than in the "fat burning zone" gimmick.
Secondly, I just want to address the knee issues. Most knee problems are from weakness in the muscles around the knee- particularly the quads and hamstrings. Imbalance in the strength between them causes you to compensate by putting extra stress on the joints. The absolute best protection for the knees is to develop the quads and hamstings with balanced training- you guessed it! - weightlifting. Squats, deadlifts, and lunges are all great for the knees, provided you do them with proper form. I would highly recommend picking up a copy of Mark Rippetoes "Starting Strength" which is basically the form bible, read it, learn it, and start protecting your knees!0 -
This is weight lifting:
This is not:
If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed 0 -
I think that the Thirty Day Shred certainly counts because it is full of push-ups and planks and squats and other body weight exercises. It's perfect for a beginner, in my opinion. Once you have increased your strength from that, then you are ready to lift a barbell, and perhaps even add a smidge of weight to it. :laugh:0
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This is weight lifting:
This is not:
Top pic is an experienced lifter. Bottom picture is weight training if she's new to weight training. Lest we forget, for some women, lifting 10 reps of 5 pounds *IS* lifting heavy.0 -
If the question is if those and similar dvds count as strength training the answer is "No". Those dvds have their place but they are not the "lifting", "weights", or "strength training" that we are speaking of
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are all forms of strength training.0 -
I agree with WendyT - you don't need to lift weights to increase strength, certainly not at the beginning and - if you get hooked by it - you can add complexity to bodyweight exercises to make them infinitely harder to keep upping the resistance. I started out building strength using bodyweight only and I am completely addicted.
Not saying lifting weights is wrong, but weights are not the only way to increasing strength.
Cardio also - good for your heart and lungs and good for your heart and soul too.
Regarding the DVDs like 30DS and the like - I have tried this and felt it was more over to cardio than strength as the empahasis seemed to be keeping working without a break. For strength building you tend to need rest time between sets to get the best out of a strength building set. In my beginner's experience.
Whatever you choose - shoose something you are going to love because you will be doing loads of it!0 -
If the question is if those and similar dvds count as strength training the answer is "No". Those dvds have their place but they are not the "lifting", "weights", or "strength training" that we are speaking of
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are all forms of strength training.
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are examples of exercises. But merely doing them does not mean that you have done the strength training we are speaking of. We're talking about an entire routine designed to build a foundation of strength for the whole body. I can drop down and do 100 pushups right now. That doesn't mean I've strength trained.
You're naming legit exercises. But the conversation is about legit programs0 -
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Bottom picture is weight training if she's new to weight training. Lest we forget, for some women, lifting 10 reps of 5 pounds *IS* lifting heavy.
bottom picture is of a woman who's been told that lifting anything heavier than her purse will make her bulky. There is NO woman, otherwise healthy, for which lifting 5 lbs any number of times is heavy. i'm very comfortable with that blanket statement. we're talking purse with a cell phone in it weight. if there was a woman that couldn't lift 5 lbs, how does she get her groceries home? one can of beans at a time? How does she hold her 8lb newborn to breast feed?
I'm not saying every untrained woman can go do 3 sets of preacher curls with a 100 lb bar. But there is a floor to what's heavy for any healthy human being.0 -
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are examples of exercises. But merely doing them does not mean that you have done the strength training we are speaking of. We're talking about an entire routine designed to build a foundation of strength for the whole body. I can drop down and do 100 pushups right now. That doesn't mean I've strength trained.
You're naming legit exercises. But the conversation is about legit programs
DavPul - would you say that if the pushup was increased by a succession of resistances, say inclined, diamond, one-arm, all the way to planche pushups - that bodyweight exercises if approached in this way could be considered a legitimate program of strength training if all bodyparts were trained in the same way of increased resistance. So back could obviously be progressively trained through inverted rows, chins and pullups and legs could be trained through progressive splits and pistol squats for example.
Sure, if you can drop and do 100 pushups that is no longer strength comparatively, but if you were to increase the difficulty you could possibly find a pushup exercise which was in the 5 - 8 reps range again?
Not trying to be a smart *kitten* - serious question. Not trying to derail the original thread as DVDs like 30DS do include things like pushups but they are in sets of like 30 reps so they couldn't be considered strength - unless you adapt the DVD
and do less reps but make the exercise harder (increased the resisance in effect) if you see what I mean.
My problem with the DVDs was the rep ranges were way too high - even in Insanity weights and P90X - to see an increase in strength, until I ditched the DVDs and separated cardio and strength sessions, and really concentrated on one or the other but not both together.
(edited to amend quote brackets)0 -
If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed
It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over0 -
There's no better, they work different parts of your body and obtain different results.
Cardio makes you healthier, lifting makes you stronger, develop muscles (no you won't get bulky) and reshape your body.
Do both.0 -
If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed
It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over
I'm just wondering where she picked up those socks. :noway:0 -
To be considered weight training, you need progressive overload. This means continually increasing the demands on the musculoskeletal system (and CNS, for a while). For practical purposes, this means continually moving forward adding either reps or weight. Jillians workouts could work for a short while, but because of the high-repetitions most people who consider themselves weight lifters consider those workouts endurance with resistance, rather than weight lifting.
Usually to be considered strength training you want to perform an exercise at an appropriate weight such that you hit temporary failure in under 13 reps.
1-5 reps for strength and power
5-8 reps for strength and hypertrophy
8-13 reps for hypertrophy and endurance
13+ reps for endurance.
Note that there is little hypertrophy in the 1-5 rep range. For this reason, stronglifts 5x5 ( 5 sets of 5 reps) is a great program for both men and women, and women can undergo it without fear of looking like Arnold. (not that I agree you can end up that way accidentally, but avoiding hypertrophy training ensures it)
To get it back to the correct answer - ^this0 -
If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed
It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over
More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.0 -
If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed
It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over
More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.
I was trying to figure it out, I thought she might impart a spin and drop one end.0 -
This is weight lifting:
This is not:
Amen!!!0 -
DavPul - would you say that if the pushup was increased by a succession of resistances, say inclined, diamond, one-arm, all the way to planche pushups - that bodyweight exercises if approached in this way could be considered a legitimate program of strength training.. ....
Sure, if you can drop and do 100 pushups that is no longer strength comparatively, but if you were to increase the difficulty you could possibly find a pushup exercise which was in the 5 - 8 reps range again?
Not trying to be a smart *kitten* - serious question. Not trying to derail the original thread as DVDs like 30DS do include things like pushups but they are in sets of like 30 reps so they couldn't be considered strength - unless you adapt the DVD
and do less reps but make the exercise harder (increased the resisance in effect) if you see what I mean.
Good question. Short answer is yes. But after all the fuss to make a pushup so hard that I can only do 5-8 wouldn't it be easier to just lay on a bench and press a bar overhead? Not to mention safer. I'd be doing a one handed handstand pushup with a full grown woman holding 5lb weights balancing on top of my feet. I'm trying to work out, not join the Cirque de Soliel.
Same applies to adapting the dvds. Once we've adapted them to make them strength training dvds we're basically only left with the plastic wrapper that encased the dvd before you opened it up. There's no there there.
To bring it full circle back to the original post, the person sophisticated enough to adapt bodyweight exercises and 30DS type dvds into actual strength training is not the type of person that would ever buy that dvd in the first place. So in theory, a person could do what you're talking about, but in practical application it's not very likely.0 -
If the question is if those and similar dvds count as strength training the answer is "No". Those dvds have their place but they are not the "lifting", "weights", or "strength training" that we are speaking of
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are all forms of strength training.
Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are examples of exercises. But merely doing them does not mean that you have done the strength training we are speaking of. We're talking about an entire routine designed to build a foundation of strength for the whole body. I can drop down and do 100 pushups right now. That doesn't mean I've strength trained.
You're naming legit exercises. But the conversation is about legit programs
That's interesting because I have increased my strength by doing these exercises. There are also many experts in their field that would vehemently disagree with you. Strength training is about training your body to be stronger. Any exercise that accomplishes that goal can be considered strength training. Putting those exercises into a regimen would certainly be called a program. You are correct on that point.
Just because *YOU* can do 100 push-ups doesn't mean that a newbie couldn't increase their strength with them.
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DavPul - would you say that if the pushup was increased by a succession of resistances, say inclined, diamond, one-arm, all the way to planche pushups - that bodyweight exercises if approached in this way could be considered a legitimate program of strength training.. ....
Sure, if you can drop and do 100 pushups that is no longer strength comparatively, but if you were to increase the difficulty you could possibly find a pushup exercise which was in the 5 - 8 reps range again?
Not trying to be a smart *kitten* - serious question. Not trying to derail the original thread as DVDs like 30DS do include things like pushups but they are in sets of like 30 reps so they couldn't be considered strength - unless you adapt the DVD
and do less reps but make the exercise harder (increased the resisance in effect) if you see what I mean.
Good question. Short answer is yes. But after all the fuss to make a pushup so hard that I can only do 5-8 wouldn't it be easier to just lay on a bench and press a bar overhead? Not to mention safer. I'd be doing a one handed handstand pushup with a full grown woman holding 5lb weights balancing on top of my feet. I'm trying to work out, not join the Cirque de Soliel.
Same applies to adapting the dvds. Once we've adapted them to make them strength training dvds we're basically only left with the plastic wrapper that encased the dvd before you opened it up. There's no there there.
To bring it full circle back to the original post, the person sophisticated enough to adapt bodyweight exercises and 30DS type dvds into actual strength training is not the type of person that would ever buy that dvd in the first place. So in theory, a person could do what you're talking about, but in practical application it's not very likely.
Once you reach a certain level of strength, then yes, free weights are the most efficient way to continue progressing. But yes, you could still progress without free weights, if you chose to do so.
But in the beginning, when lifting a gallon of milk is difficult, especially for an obese person, then body weight exercises to strengthen your core can also be highly efficient.0
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