Want to build muscle, not lose weight. More protein?
ninjakowski
Posts: 158
I've just started going to the gym - have only been 4 times so far and have already lost 1kg.
I'm actually not trying to lose weight anymore, I want to build muscle. I do have a very small amount of fat left to burn from my hips/butt but I was expecting muscle gains to cancel that out on the scale as its a really tiny amount.
I'm eating at maintenance and usually eat back my exercise calories.
Had a look at my diary and realised I've been a bit under on my protein lately, and was thinking that might be why I'm losing weight, ie. I'm burning fat at the gym but dont have enough protein to build any muscle. Does that sound reasonable?
Does anyone have tips for upping my protein intake. Dinner is no problem, I will do some meals with chicken, beans etc, but looking for some high protein options that are easy to add to breakfast, lunch and snacks.
My husband thinks I need to just up my calories, but I'm worried it will all go back to my hips. At the same time I really dont want to keep losing at this rate as my upper body, which never stores any fat, is getting REALLY skinny (ie. visible ribs, not a good look).
Any suggestions welcomed.
I'm actually not trying to lose weight anymore, I want to build muscle. I do have a very small amount of fat left to burn from my hips/butt but I was expecting muscle gains to cancel that out on the scale as its a really tiny amount.
I'm eating at maintenance and usually eat back my exercise calories.
Had a look at my diary and realised I've been a bit under on my protein lately, and was thinking that might be why I'm losing weight, ie. I'm burning fat at the gym but dont have enough protein to build any muscle. Does that sound reasonable?
Does anyone have tips for upping my protein intake. Dinner is no problem, I will do some meals with chicken, beans etc, but looking for some high protein options that are easy to add to breakfast, lunch and snacks.
My husband thinks I need to just up my calories, but I'm worried it will all go back to my hips. At the same time I really dont want to keep losing at this rate as my upper body, which never stores any fat, is getting REALLY skinny (ie. visible ribs, not a good look).
Any suggestions welcomed.
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Replies
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You might need a combination of more calories and more protein. Your calculated maintenance might be too low. Other than exercise, I lead a fairly sedentary life, but I need to have my daily activity set to active AND eat all my exercise calories to get enough. I switched a few months ago to eating based on my TDEE, so I eat the same amount every day.
As far as adding more protein, try adding a little more to each meal. Hard boiled egg with breakfast, an extra couple slices of lunchmeat if you have a sandwich, another ounce or two of whatever meat you're having for dinner.
I got sick of sandwiches, so I got a bunch of frozen entrees to have for lunch, but they're usually pretty low in protein, so I baked some extra chicken early in the week and chop that up and add an ounce or two to the frozen dinner. And often a sprinkle of cheese on top, too.
I like protein bars because they taste as good as candy bars and can pack up to 20g of protein. Protein powder can help a lot, too. I don't much like shakes, but I add it to the milk I pour on my cereal. Good way to add protein and calories to an easy breakfast without adding extra volume.0 -
If you want to build muscle..You're going to have to get comfortable with the fact that you'll gain some fat a long with it.
If you want to lose (shrink) fat...You're going to have to get comfortable with the face that you'll lose some muscle.
Your macro %'s and training volume/frequency will determine how much of what you'll gain/lose.
In my experience gaining more than 1/2/lb per week results in excessive and avoidable fat gain. Losing more than 3/4/lb per week erodes more muscle tissue than necessary.
But your mileage will vary...I have a friend who downs pizza, fries, and burgers and is still larger, stronger, and more shredded than me.0 -
By build muscle do you mean you want larger muscles? Eg hypertrophy or more muscle mass? Or do you want you want to have better looking muscle structure? This means 2 different approaches.0
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If you are losing weight while on maintenance, MFP's maintenance is probably too low for you. Up your activity level, or custom up your calories.
Being "too skinny" on top and still fat on the bottom is my problem too. I did exactly what you want to do, I added muscle. I did this by eating OVER maintenance (about 3000 calories a day) and following a hypertrophy lifting program. I did what I wanted, balanced my upper body and my lower body. I did gain an inch or so on each thigh, but really that's not a big deal.
Bulking is scary though. I'd get your maintenance calories figured out first. Add calories until you stop losing. Stay there for a few weeks. Then decide if you want to try to gain.0 -
If you are losing weight, you are not at maintenance. To build muscle you need to be at a surplus.
Re protein - try to get at least 1g per lb of LBM.0 -
Good advice so far. Building muscle requires resistance/strength training, a calorie surplus, and sufficient protein. The training and protein are the easy parts... the calorie surplus is tricky. The greater the surplus, the more you'll maximize muscle gains, but you'll also increase fat gains. The smaller the surplus, the smaller the gains will be (both muscle gains and fat gains).
And on a side note... building muscle is a MUUUUCH slower process than most people want to believe. You can easily lose 1 lb in a week or 2, but gaining 1lb of muscle is going to take MUCH longer. Just wanted to make sure you're expectations were in check.0 -
Thanks for great advice. I'm entering a whole new area, got a lot to learn I think.
What is a hypertrophy lifting program? I just want some more muscle definition, not bulk.
Going to very slightly increase my calories for now and see what happens - can anybody tell me if its possible to manually adjust my calorie settings on MFP? I thought I saw this option ages ago but can't find it now.
Thanks again, feeling very clueless right now!!!0 -
Yes, eat more protein and don't do a lot of cardio. Do a few minutes to get your heart rate going and then start on the strength training.0
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You don't have to increase body fat when increasing muscle; this is still routed in the 70's bodybuilding mentality of bulking then cutting. Nutrition timing post workout will eliminate most of the unwanted fat deposits from excess calories if timed correctly.
Hypertrophy is the growth of muscles from the trauma of stress by overloading the fibres, commonly known as lifting heavy weights. After the trauma, you need to provide the nutrients your body requires for the muscles to grow back bigger and stronger. Adaptive overload for the body is essential to adjust with the increased physical demands. Six to eight repetitions per set of heavy weights it a good place to start for hypertrophy.
Protein will assist in the repair and growth of the muscles and carbohydrates will shuttle the amino acids along with glucose around the body to replenish muscle glycogen.0 -
Home > Goals > Change Goals > CustomThanks for great advice. I'm entering a whole new area, got a lot to learn I think.
What is a hypertrophy lifting program? I just want some more muscle definition, not bulk.
Going to very slightly increase my calories for now and see what happens - can anybody tell me if its possible to manually adjust my calorie settings on MFP? I thought I saw this option ages ago but can't find it now.
Thanks again, feeling very clueless right now!!!
While you're there, you should adjust your percentage breakdown to 40% Protein and 30% Fat/Carbs. That should put you close to your optimal protein intake.
Be mentally prepared for the fact that building muscle, especially as a woman, is a very slow process. Best of luck to you
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Thanks for that!
I'm really not too stressed about gaining muscle quickly, I just want to start to look a bit 'tighter' and anything beyond that is a bonus, I'm willing to wait. Just really dont want to start looking losing any more right now.
How much cardio is too much? At the moment I'm just doing about 10 mins on the treadmill as a warmup at the gym, and occasionally I might do another 10 mins after the workout. I do gym three times a week, 30 day shred two days, then on Saturdays I go for a big run (5 - 7kms), is that ok? I really enjoy that run.0 -
If you're going to start a more serious weight or resistance program, I would ditch the 30 day shred. Besides, that, if you enjoy your run I'm not going to tell you not to do it.Thanks for that!
I'm really not too stressed about gaining muscle quickly, I just want to start to look a bit 'tighter' and anything beyond that is a bonus, I'm willing to wait. Just really dont want to start looking losing any more right now.
How much cardio is too much? At the moment I'm just doing about 10 mins on the treadmill as a warmup at the gym, and occasionally I might do another 10 mins after the workout. I do gym three times a week, 30 day shred two days, then on Saturdays I go for a big run (5 - 7kms), is that ok? I really enjoy that run.0 -
You don't have to increase body fat when increasing muscle; this is still routed in the 70's bodybuilding mentality of bulking then cutting. Nutrition timing post workout will eliminate most of the unwanted fat deposits from excess calories if timed correctly.
No need to get excessively fat, but a 1:1 muscle to fat gain is fairly common whilst trying to put on muscle mass. You don't gain muscle when you train. You gain it at rest. Post workout protein helps get it in, but you will have a good level of nitrogen/protein in your blood as long as you have a good consistent diet, which as a good trainer looking to build muscle, you should do.Hypertrophy is the growth of muscles from the trauma of stress by overloading the fibres, commonly known as lifting heavy weights. After the trauma, you need to provide the nutrients your body requires for the muscles to grow back bigger and stronger. Adaptive overload for the body is essential to adjust with the increased physical demands. Six to eight repetitions per set of heavy weights it a good place to start for hypertrophy.
6-8 is the lower end of hypertrophy, if anything strength training. 8-12 reps will mean slightly lower weights and less stress on joints/ligament and thus less chance of injury.Protein will assist in the repair and growth of the muscles and carbohydrates will shuttle the amino acids along with glucose around the body to replenish muscle glycogen.
Carbs are not required post workout here which I think you are infering. No difference between whey and whey with a carb 'shuttle'.
Please do not listen to this person. She doesn't know much, to be polite.0 -
You don't have to increase body fat when increasing muscle; this is still routed in the 70's bodybuilding mentality of bulking then cutting. Nutrition timing post workout will eliminate most of the unwanted fat deposits from excess calories if timed correctly.
No need to get excessively fat, but a 1:1 muscle to fat gain is fairly common whilst trying to put on muscle mass. You don't gain muscle when you train. You gain it at rest. Post workout protein helps get it in, but you will have a good level of nitrogen/protein in your blood as long as you have a good consistent diet, which as a good trainer looking to build muscle, you should do.Hypertrophy is the growth of muscles from the trauma of stress by overloading the fibres, commonly known as lifting heavy weights. After the trauma, you need to provide the nutrients your body requires for the muscles to grow back bigger and stronger. Adaptive overload for the body is essential to adjust with the increased physical demands. Six to eight repetitions per set of heavy weights it a good place to start for hypertrophy.
6-8 is the lower end of hypertrophy, if anything strength training. 8-12 reps will mean slightly lower weights and less stress on joints/ligament and thus less chance of injury.Protein will assist in the repair and growth of the muscles and carbohydrates will shuttle the amino acids along with glucose around the body to replenish muscle glycogen.
Carbs are not required post workout here which I think you are infering. No difference between whey and whey with a carb 'shuttle'.
Please do not listen to this person. She doesn't know much, to be polite.
Matt's info is far more accurate than the poster he is quoting. It's next to impossible to not gain any body fat while building muscle and is a long tedious process if attempted. But it does not sound like hypertrophy is what you want. You just want a leaner more musclular body. Any of the begginer programs would help you. My personal favorite is Starting Strength by Mark Rippletoe. If you eat at maintenance and do a program like this, you will develop your exiting muscle tissue and getting leaner looking with more defined muscle structure.0 -
You can still eat at a calorie deficit and still gain muscle while losing weight. You do not need to eat at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. What you need to do is eat 80%-100% of your body weight in protein, while doing full body workouts 2-3 times a week. Cardio is important as well.
If you don't want to lose weight, but want to gain muscle, just figure out what your TDEE is and eat around your TDEE while still eating enough protein to build muscle.0 -
You can still eat at a calorie deficit and still gain muscle while losing weight. You do not need to eat at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. What you need to do is eat 80%-100% of your body weight in protein, while doing full body workouts 2-3 times a week. Cardio is important as well.
And how would you gain muscle tissue while in a calorie/ energy deficit? Please cite le a legitimate proof sources for your reasoning. It is generally accepted that you can develop existing muscle tissue while in a deficit but cannot gain muscle tissue unless you are obese, a newbie or an athelete returning to training after a layoff. In all of these cases, the gains are minimal. A couple of pounds. Additionally, if you are trying to gain muscle tissue, cardio is counter productive due to hormonal responses that work against each other.0 -
Thanks for that!
I'm really not too stressed about gaining muscle quickly, I just want to start to look a bit 'tighter' and anything beyond that is a bonus, I'm willing to wait. Just really dont want to start looking losing any more right now.
How much cardio is too much? At the moment I'm just doing about 10 mins on the treadmill as a warmup at the gym, and occasionally I might do another 10 mins after the workout. I do gym three times a week, 30 day shred two days, then on Saturdays I go for a big run (5 - 7kms), is that ok? I really enjoy that run.
So sounds like you just want to eat at maintenance and lift. You probably could accomplish some "body re-composition" doing that, it just takes longer. Start adding 200 calories a week until you stop losing, then stay there. My maintenance is about 2400, so just be aware it might be much higher than you (or MFP) thinks.
So you are doing cardio 3 times a week and lifting 3 times? That should be fine.0 -
I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)0 -
I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
How are you measuring your stats that indicate muscle gain at a deficit?0 -
I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge
too bad the general population isn't very intelligent.0 -
To clarify, I'm not worried about gaining a little weight as long as a good amount of it is muscle and I don't start to look fatter rather than toned.
I have very slightly upped my calories (from 1930 to 2000), will weigh in on Monday and adjust again if neccesary (think I will need to go higher). Have also adjusted my macro ratios but I never realised how low MFP's default protein setting was (just 15%), so when I put my protein up to 30% it just looked like a ridiculously high number that realistically I just wont reach at the moment.
At the moment have put it on c45/f30/p25 - is that ok for now or way out? I suppose if my calorie allowance goes up I will have more room for increasing the amount of protein powder in my shake, which I also realised I haven't been taking the full 'dose' of. Something to work on.
Have just found an english language bookstore in Amsterdam that stocks the new rules of lifting for women, so heading out to buy that this afternoon and hopefully will gain a bit more understanding of how this all fits together.
On the plus side, higher maintenance calories is AWESOME - I love to eat :laugh:0 -
To clarify, I'm not worried about gaining a little weight as long as a good amount of it is muscle and I don't start to look fatter rather than toned.
I have very slightly upped my calories (from 1930 to 2000), will weigh in on Monday and adjust again if neccesary (think I will need to go higher). Have also adjusted my macro ratios but I never realised how low MFP's default protein setting was (just 15%), so when I put my protein up to 30% it just looked like a ridiculously high number that realistically I just wont reach at the moment.
At the moment have put it on c45/f30/p25 - is that ok for now or way out? I suppose if my calorie allowance goes up I will have more room for increasing the amount of protein powder in my shake, which I also realised I haven't been taking the full 'dose' of. Something to work on.
Have just found an english language bookstore in Amsterdam that stocks the new rules of lifting for women, so heading out to buy that this afternoon and hopefully will gain a bit more understanding of how this all fits together.
On the plus side, higher maintenance calories is AWESOME - I love to eat :laugh:
It is generally recommended to have 1g of protein per lb of LBM and 1g of fats per lb of total body weight as a minimum. On those calories, those macros look like they are fine.0 -
I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
It is not general knowledge. You are talking utter rubbish. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. You do need to cite proof as otherwise, trust me I'd be doing it all the time.
Carb cycling does work for burning fat and other days building muscle but be VERY clear, it doesn't happen "at the same time".0 -
I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
It is not general knowledge. You are talking utter rubbish. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. You do need to cite proof as otherwise, trust me I'd be doing it all the time.
Carb cycling does work for burning fat and other days building muscle but be VERY clear, it doesn't happen "at the same time".
Someone who is at 8% body fat cannot lose fat AND gain muscle very well, if at all. Someone who is 25%+ or so CAN lose fat AND gain muscle easily, with good nutrition. Please, read my entire post, and not skim through it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
It is possible. Stop providing misinformation. If you don't like my link, google.com is there for you, with numerous other facts, just need to get to the right info.0 -
Someone who is at 8% body fat cannot lose fat AND gain muscle very well, if at all. Someone who is 25%+ or so CAN lose fat AND gain muscle easily, with good nutrition. Please, read my entire post, and not skim through it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
It is possible. Stop providing misinformation. If you don't like my link, google.com is there for you, with numerous other facts, just need to get to the right info.
Utter rubbish. That is utter bunkum mate. I am regularly at 8%, heck I'm reguarly at around 3-4% body fat.
That site talks rubbish - in a scientific manner, please explain how that website is anyway true? Please?0 -
Hmmmm gaining muscle at a deficit...you can maintain lean mass and lose fat, but not gain...also to the OP, as a woman, bulking is not going to happen unless, well, you get some chemical help...0
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I really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
Lol, good luck with that argument.0 -
Quote from that Scooby website:
"I have no medical training or personal training credentials,"0 -
how to do carb cycling.?.... i am here to loose weight.....and gain musclesI really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
It is not general knowledge. You are talking utter rubbish. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. You do need to cite proof as otherwise, trust me I'd be doing it all the time.
Carb cycling does work for burning fat and other days building muscle but be VERY clear, it doesn't happen "at the same time".0
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