Trainer says to workout... Less?!
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Let me repeat, if you are truly going as heavy as you can, you will hurt for days. I'm not talking lifting "heavy" 3-6 reps, I'm not talking about hitting your PR and calling it a day. I'm talking about balls to the walls do or die lifting. Fainting after a set and puking in the parking lot hard. No matter how long you've been training, if you go that hard, you will hurt, I promise. If you've never gone that far (or don't care too) I can't describe how amazing it is.
Please tell me this isn't serious advice.... to work so hard you faint and throw up? Good lord.
He sounds very serious but it is absolutely not necessary for us mere humans!
Yeah and dont forget about the injuring yourself cause of poor technique and Im not talking about nailing your balls to the wall or whatever!
He's 26 years old...that's were that do it or die trying mentality comes from. Give him another 30 years:laugh:0 -
I'm a runner so cardio is a huge part of my workout but it's not my whole workout, I do Zwow which is a hiit and depending on what length (12-40 min) I finish the rest of the hour with heavy weights. I workout 5 days a week (run m,t,w, sat lift m-f). You can find a healthy happy balance. I don't do cardio in with my weights ever- I did the 30 day shred and skipped all cardio, I run 20+ miles a week I don't need to do jumping jacks0
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Let me repeat, if you are truly going as heavy as you can, you will hurt for days. I'm not talking lifting "heavy" 3-6 reps, I'm not talking about hitting your PR and calling it a day. I'm talking about balls to the walls do or die lifting. Fainting after a set and puking in the parking lot hard. No matter how long you've been training, if you go that hard, you will hurt, I promise. If you've never gone that far (or don't care too) I can't describe how amazing it is.
Please tell me this isn't serious advice.... to work so hard you faint and throw up? Good lord.
He sounds very serious but it is absolutely not necessary for us mere humans!
Yeah and dont forget about the injuring yourself cause of poor technique and Im not talking about nailing your balls to the wall or whatever!
He's 26 years old...that's were that do it or die trying mentality comes from. Give him another 30 years:laugh:
I'm 26 too... I know better.0 -
He's 26 years old...that's were that do it or die trying mentality comes from. Give him another 30 years:laugh:
I'm 26 too... I know better.
You guys must have never played any type of competitive sports in your life I'm guessing...0 -
Can you explain more about protein absorption? Also, are you talking about carb/calorie cycling for gym performance or weight loss?
Protein absorption: I was referring the the time frame after a workout during which your body more readily absorbs proteins. This discovery is what prompted the "post workout shake". My point originally being that meal timing can be manipulated for one's benefit.
Carb timing can be used for performance/appearance improvements (think runners/athletes that have a pasta dinner the night before their event). Cycling carbs is geared toward cutting fat MOST of the time.
He's 26 years old...that's were that do it or die trying mentality comes from. Give him another 30 years:laugh:
I'm 26 too... I know better.
You know better what? Please tell me you're not mocking me in any way..
And the other one...I know several men and women in their 50's who train as hard or harder than me, and they have bodies of a 30 year old. If you really want results you work for it, if you're content with being mediocre you don't. To each his own.0 -
Can you explain more about protein absorption? Also, are you talking about carb/calorie cycling for gym performance or weight loss?
Protein absorption: I was referring the the time frame after a workout during which your body more readily absorbs proteins. This discovery is what prompted the "post workout shake". My point originally being that meal timing can be manipulated for one's benefit.
Carb timing can be used for performance/appearance improvements (think runners/athletes that have a pasta dinner the night before their event). Cycling carbs is geared toward cutting fat MOST of the time.
What time frame is that? Also, how does carb cycling cut fat most of the time? Sorry, just trying to clarify.0 -
Ok, lots going on in this thread! First off, what is you primary goal at the moment? Build muscle? Build strength? Lose fat? What is your secondary goal?
It comes down to semantics but you can't really over-train, just under recover. For muscle building you'll want to lift heavy, really heavy. You'll also want lots of rest time for the muscles to recover. 3 or 4 days max for lifting. You could do some light cardio on the off days but don't over do it or you'll reduce the efficiency of your muscle building. Better yet, do the cardio after your weights and leave the rest days for resting.
It's not necessary or even advisable to train so hard that you throw up. Progressive load training along with enough calories and protein plus rest is the key to muscle growth.0 -
Bump for reference.0
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Can you explain more about protein absorption? Also, are you talking about carb/calorie cycling for gym performance or weight loss?
Protein absorption: I was referring the the time frame after a workout during which your body more readily absorbs proteins. This discovery is what prompted the "post workout shake". My point originally being that meal timing can be manipulated for one's benefit.
Carb timing can be used for performance/appearance improvements (think runners/athletes that have a pasta dinner the night before their event). Cycling carbs is geared toward cutting fat MOST of the time.
What time frame is that? Also, how does carb cycling cut fat most of the time? Sorry, just trying to clarify.
Carb cycling keeps your body guessing, which also keeps it in a fat burning state. All the big pros do some form of carb cycling (I think some few have keto still but most do not) and they have "high" "medium" and "low" days.
On the intensity bit: Some people just don't have the drive. They say they "want" something, but it's only when it becomes more important than anything else that they unlock that drive. Some find it later, but a lot of people don't. It's like that old quote: "Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated."0 -
I'm lifting heavy and I love it. There's really no better way to lose weight and add muscle in my experience. Yes I can be pretty sore by the 3rd day, and sometimes frustratingly I hit my failure point on my 3rd set with the 4th rep. The results are fast and real however. I haven't puked yet but there have been times in the past when I experienced some pretty serious nausea and dizzyness (don't worry, I'm healthy enough. I had pushed myself pretty hard sometimes).
I see alot of people here, women mostly, seem to get stuck at a certain weight point and can't make additional progress like they want. I think it must be pretty common that what got you into exercise, cardio or something else, is no longer the solution to get you the rest of the way. To get those last 10 lbs that just won't come off. As your trainer and other people have said here, heavy lifting is the answer. Some of the hardest best work you can do!0 -
"Chasing the pump" "meal frequency" "meal timing", "going until failure"..just a few examples. Just because a person does not get sore does not mean the did not sufficiently work the muscles.
Meal timing...proven to work. See any form of carb cycling/timing for proof, as well as protein absorbtion.
Meal frequency, debatable and entirely goal dependent. If you want to be a 250+ lb bodybuilder, the only way you can get the amount of calories required to do that is eating every 2-3 hours. If you want to be a buck fifty and shredded, then ya, you can get away with 2 big meals a day.
Failure, again, depends on how that style of training is employed.
Chasing the pump, entirely a bodybuilding oriented form of training.
Muscle soreness, goal dependent. Absolute strength or developement, you're gonna hurt. Being "fit" or "in shape", not required.
Wow. So much going on in this thread. I'm sorry I missed it when the bullets were flying. If I had been here, I would have stood with this guy. Stuff that has worked to perfection for nearly a century has suddenly become a punchline because someone linked to a study that was conducted a week and a half ago. The biggest baddest lifters I've ever met would be accused of peddling bioscience by guys that makes look like warmup reps.
Back to the OP, FWIW, I believe your trainer is right (in theory if not actual method). Lift heavy and cut the cardio if you're trying to trim that last bit of BF%. I've found that cardio in those situations tends to keep you from that goal instead of getting your closer. It's wheel spinning. Literally.
edited to add: This is by no means a personal attack on anyone, here or not here, their beliefs, or their training or nutritional method. It's more akin to a cranky old man rant about the State Of The World Today. Now get the **** off my lawn.0 -
Can you explain more about protein absorption? Also, are you talking about carb/calorie cycling for gym performance or weight loss?
Protein absorption: I was referring the the time frame after a workout during which your body more readily absorbs proteins. This discovery is what prompted the "post workout shake". My point originally being that meal timing can be manipulated for one's benefit.
Carb timing can be used for performance/appearance improvements (think runners/athletes that have a pasta dinner the night before their event). Cycling carbs is geared toward cutting fat MOST of the time.
What time frame is that? Also, how does carb cycling cut fat most of the time? Sorry, just trying to clarify.
Carb cycling keeps your body guessing, which also keeps it in a fat burning state. All the big pros do some form of carb cycling (I think some few have keto still but most do not) and they have "high" "medium" and "low" days.
On the intensity bit: Some people just don't have the drive. They say they "want" something, but it's only when it becomes more important than anything else that they unlock that drive. Some find it later, but a lot of people don't. It's like that old quote: "Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated."
Huh?0 -
Okay. The body is a super resilient system that adapts to what we throw at it over time, so that even if you work at a calorie deficit and do all the right things, over time it gets used to it and it says "oh okay we can live with this" and then you stall out.
But if you cycle carbs, you can keep it burning and "guessing", without having to drop all the carbs and cals etc. I have 3 days (1900 cals, 2500 cals, 2100 cals) and I'm growing/getting leaner with every day.0 -
Bump0
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Okay. The body is a super resilient system that adapts to what we throw at it over time, so that even if you work at a calorie deficit and do all the right things, over time it gets used to it and it says "oh okay we can live with this" and then you stall out.
But if you cycle carbs, you can keep it burning and "guessing", without having to drop all the carbs and cals etc. I have 3 days (1900 cals, 2500 cals, 2100 cals) and I'm growing/getting leaner with every day.
Are you at a deficit? Seems like you would be with that intake.0 -
Wow. So much going on in this thread. I'm sorry I missed it when the bullets were flying. If I had been here, I would have stood with this guy. Stuff that has worked to perfection for nearly a century has suddenly become a punchline because someone linked to a study that was conducted a week and a half ago. The biggest baddest lifters I've ever met would be accused of peddling bioscience by guys that makes look like warmup reps.
The stuff that has worked still works today but that does not mean that everything the biggest baddest guys did is what was working. It gets to the point its like baseball. A guy steps up to bat, kicks the plate with both feet, adjust his gloves two times, spits over his left shoulder, then set up for a perfect swing and hits a home run. Now everyone thinks you have to do all that stuff to hit perfect home runs when it is really just the swing that matters at all.
You get the same kind of thing with body builders. Gotta chug that protein shake as soon as the weight hits the floor. Gotta eat a meal every two hours, gotta train till you got nothing left, gotta do reps till your muscles want to burst and you gotta keep pushing for heavier and heavier weights. You do all of this and you can gain about 1 maybe 2 pounds of muscle per month for the first few years of your training. What we have been finding out, if we choose to look for it, is that a lot of that stuff is not necessary. You can get the same results as long as you get your nutrients and progressively over load the muscles within a certain range. This does require you to push and workout with intensity but this macho bull about "no pain no gain, kill it till you puke, got to be sore for days or your workout was crap" is just silly. It doesnt mean you wont get results by doing it just that it is not always the reason for the gains.0 -
The problem is if you read everything, have a good memory, and hang around the game long enough you'll notice that the "science" is constantly changing. The new study invalidates the old study, then the newer study makes the old study cool again, then the next study throws all of our assumptions out the window, only for us to find them all over again.
The human body is a complex thing, and whenever people think they have it all figured out they tend to look silly later. Or at least they would, but people have such short memories they don't recall their previous position much of the time. I'm not saying you're wrong just like I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying don't put all your trust in "peer reviewed science".
Every time I say not to trust science people knock me for being a moronic meathead. Maybe. But how many medications have seriously harmed people after all the science had proven them safe? Phen fen, anyone? Agent Orange? Lead paint? Anybody been around long enough to remember when peer reviewed science proved without a doubt that steroids didn't work? Just me?
At one time all the world's leading scientists proved that the Earth was flat, too.0 -
The problem is if you read everything, have a good memory, and hang around the game long enough you'll notice that the "science" is constantly changing. The new study invalidates the old study, then the newer study makes the old study cool again, then the next study throws all of our assumptions out the window, only for us to find them all over again.
The human body is a complex thing, and whenever people think they have it all figured out they tend to look silly later. Or at least they would, but people have such short memories they don't recall their previous position much of the time. I'm not saying you're wrong just like I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying don't put all your trust in "peer reviewed science".
Every time I say not to trust science people knock me for being a moronic meathead. Maybe. But how many medications have seriously harmed people after all the science had proven them safe? Phen fen, anyone? Agent Orange? Lead paint? Anybody been around long enough to remember when peer reviewed science proved without a doubt that steroids didn't work? Just me?
At one time all the world's leading scientists proved that the Earth was flat, too.
Excellent post! Many centuries ago it was a fact that if you threw someone into a volcano, it wouldn't erupt. I seriously doubt anyone still holds that belief now. Science and research are constantly evolving and improving and it's safe to say that many things we hold to be 100% accurate fact will be found out to be false years from now. With something as unknown as the human body that will hold even more true.0 -
The problem is if you read everything, have a good memory, and hang around the game long enough you'll notice that the "science" is constantly changing. The new study invalidates the old study, then the newer study makes the old study cool again, then the next study throws all of our assumptions out the window, only for us to find them all over again.
The human body is a complex thing, and whenever people think they have it all figured out they tend to look silly later. Or at least they would, but people have such short memories they don't recall their previous position much of the time. I'm not saying you're wrong just like I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying don't put all your trust in "peer reviewed science".
Every time I say not to trust science people knock me for being a moronic meathead. Maybe. But how many medications have seriously harmed people after all the science had proven them safe? Phen fen, anyone? Agent Orange? Lead paint? Anybody been around long enough to remember when peer reviewed science proved without a doubt that steroids didn't work? Just me?
At one time all the world's leading scientists proved that the Earth was flat, too.
I agree with that. Look at the science, look at the history and most important find what is the constants. What is at the root of what works? What has been there the whole time once you strip away all the rest. Eating, sleeping, pushing to lift progressively heavier weight. Its so simple we muck it up with a bunch of stuff that may or may not improve on the basics.
Follow the age old "common knowledge" or follow the cutting edge research the results are probably going to be about the same for an average everyday lifter. We will reach our natural genetic potential in 5-6 years. Much of the old school "common knowledge" was based on the science of the time. Just as fallible as the science we might be poo pooing now.
Now did we kill ourselves to get there? Did we waste a crap load of money on garbage we didnt need? Did you enjoy the process?
We once thought the world was flat but if I had to have an emergency surgery tomorrow do I want the doctor from 50 years ago or the one from today?0 -
We once thought the world was flat but if I had to have an emergency surgery tomorrow do I want the doctor from 50 years ago or the one from today?
*racks brain for smart alecky comeback*
I got nothin. Well played, sir, well played0
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