Is it possible that some people just can't get abs?

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  • terracotti
    terracotti Posts: 101 Member
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    personally I want a flat stomach, but even a flat stomach is hard to achieve (for me and some other girls, I bet) let alone abs. I'm guessing it also depends on your somatotype.
  • meggonkgonk
    meggonkgonk Posts: 2,066 Member
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    http://cdn.builtlean.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/body-fat-percentage-picture-men-women.jpg

    To give you an idea of what to expect at what BF%'s
  • iorahkwano
    iorahkwano Posts: 709 Member
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    I don't know.... my belly always has definition but not abs. Sort of like this - 8037338967_9084cef5d3_n.jpg

    Ummm, this is good. Damn near perfect.

    I would love to have a stomach like that!
  • iorahkwano
    iorahkwano Posts: 709 Member
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    A couple thoughts I have on this subject as one who has a somewhat visible six-pack but not cut to the point that I'd like.

    First, genetics: Different people put on fat differently. For most men their most stubborn fat (i.e. the last to go) is in the mid-section right around the very ab muscles we're talking about. For most women it's their thighs. However, this varies quite a bit.

    Second, Body Fat %: The numbers I've read in many places for when Ab muscles start to show are 9% and below for men and 15% or below for Women. Again, the above consideration about genetics will affect this. In my experience with my own body, 9-10% is about where I start showing.

    Third, Age: One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is age. As we get older it gets more and more difficult to get that chiseled or shrink wrapped look that is needed to get those model abs we see in all the pics. Skin becomes less resilient and adipose tissue (fat cells) tends to become "looser" as well.

    Fourth, Skin Resiliency: As I said already, age can affect this. So can the amount of weight you were carrying before you lost it as well as how long you carried that excess weight. Especially in women this can be particularly problematic in the belly area. Skin just doesn't always return to it's previous state. Loose skin can make it much harder to get your abs visible. Things like smoking, excessive sun exposure and such can also impact your skin's resiliency.

    Fifth, Muscle Mass: As you shrink down and loose the fat in your mid-section, you need the muscles behind it to have sufficient mass to become visible. The more mass they have the easier they will appear. Loose skin from weight loss requires additional muscle mass to compensate. It's easier for men than women to produce the type of muscle mass needed in most cases. Regardless if you're not doing strength training, in particular including movements that target your abs, your success will be limited.

    So no, I don't think it's impossible for anyone, however there are a lot of factors that are common for many people that can make it much more difficult. So for some people it may be next to impossible and would require significant effort above and beyond the already difficult task of getting rid of the infamous last 10 lbs.

    ** EDIT ** If you want some additional information to help explain why it is so hard to lose that stubborn fat and give you some ideas to help, I really enjoyed Lyle McDonald's book "The Stubborn Fat Solution". I'm not following his protocols yet, but just the information he gives you is extremely helpful in terms of understanding why your body is doing what it's doing.

    This was great information! Thanks for that. I do think loose skin or loose fat cells may be the reason my abs are hiding. I was never fat or had kids, but I've always carried fat on my belly and had rolls, even when I was very thin. I think my stomach can't really snap back now that it's flat. The skin doesn't hang, but it's not tight or firm. I do have non-visible abs though. I can see certain muscle definition if I turn certain ways or if I lift weights over my head.
  • upgetupgetup
    upgetupgetup Posts: 749 Member
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    Third, Age: One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is age. As we get older it gets more and more difficult to get that chiseled or shrink wrapped look that is needed to get those model abs we see in all the pics. Skin becomes less resilient and adipose tissue (fat cells) tends to become "looser" as well.

    Can you elaborate on this looseness and what to do about it please? Thanks :)
  • lornaloo3
    lornaloo3 Posts: 102
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    Its possible for all, but more difficult for some. Its a combination of fat mass over the abs and muscle size.

    You can have very little fat but not have visible abs due to lack of muscle mass. In the end, its possible, but more difficult and time consuming for some. It took me the better part of 2 years to lose 150 lbs and see my abs. And I once had a 60+" waist.

    So if I can do it, anyone can with the right amount of dedication and willpower and knowledge.

    I get you're saying you overcame lifestyle and maybe some genetic destiny here and while it's cool you managed to do it that doesn't mean everyone can. For one thing, you're a dude. Men need less body fat than women do, so you know we can have healthy cycles and whatnot. Plus, there are bodies that just will not go to that level of BF short of scary dieting extremes.
  • alyssamiller77
    alyssamiller77 Posts: 891 Member
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    I can see certain muscle definition if I turn certain ways or if I lift weights over my head.

    Then you really aren't very far off at all. Sounds like you're pretty much at that point where the remaining fat is crazy stubborn and it takes serious, sometimes extreme, work to get the last few pounds of fat off. Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I don't personally care for the look of a women with six pack abs. A flat stomach without all the ripples of the abdominal muscles is much more attractive in my book :)
  • alyssamiller77
    alyssamiller77 Posts: 891 Member
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    Third, Age: One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is age. As we get older it gets more and more difficult to get that chiseled or shrink wrapped look that is needed to get those model abs we see in all the pics. Skin becomes less resilient and adipose tissue (fat cells) tends to become "looser" as well.

    Can you elaborate on this looseness and what to do about it please? Thanks :)

    Fat cells are "elastic" in a sense. As they fill with lipid material (stored as triglycerides) they expand. When we loose body fat, what we're actually losing is the lipid material stored in our fat cells (the cells themselves remain). A process called Lipolisys converts the stored Triglycerides to fatty acids and glycerol in our blood (which can then be used in other processes to generate energy for our muscles). As lipolysis occurs, the fat cells shrink. Subcutaneous fat cells sit between the skin layers and the muscles. The skin is connected to the muscles by a membrane called the Septae. As we get older, that septae becomes less elastic. So as the fat cells shrink, the septae doesn't pull the skin back as well and the end result is a "looser" fat layer between the muscles and skin.

    As far as I know there's not really a whole lot you can do about it. It's just part of the aging process. The longer you go with a lower body fat %, the better your chances that the septae will eventually tighten and pull things back in. However, the older you are the less chance this will occur.
  • napson
    napson Posts: 13 Member
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    thanks.
    two pretty good articles, in my opinion, on body fat, and abs.

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2012/07/02/body-fat-percentage/

    http://www.vicmagary.com/blog/uncategorized/truth-of-six-pack-abs/
  • upgetupgetup
    upgetupgetup Posts: 749 Member
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    Third, Age: One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is age. As we get older it gets more and more difficult to get that chiseled or shrink wrapped look that is needed to get those model abs we see in all the pics. Skin becomes less resilient and adipose tissue (fat cells) tends to become "looser" as well.

    Can you elaborate on this looseness and what to do about it please? Thanks :)

    Fat cells are "elastic" in a sense. As they fill with lipid material (stored as triglycerides) they expand. When we loose body fat, what we're actually losing is the lipid material stored in our fat cells (the cells themselves remain). A process called Lipolisys converts the stored Triglycerides to fatty acids and glycerol in our blood (which can then be used in other processes to generate energy for our muscles). As lipolysis occurs, the fat cells shrink. Subcutaneous fat cells sit between the skin layers and the muscles. The skin is connected to the muscles by a membrane called the Septae. As we get older, that septae becomes less elastic. So as the fat cells shrink, the septae doesn't pull the skin back as well and the end result is a "looser" fat layer between the muscles and skin.

    As far as I know there's not really a whole lot you can do about it. It's just part of the aging process. The longer you go with a lower body fat %, the better your chances that the septae will eventually tighten and pull things back in. However, the older you are the less chance this will occur.

    Wonderfully clear explanation, even if the conclusion's depressing.

    I've noticed this happening in myself (mid-30s). It really helps to be able to set realistic expectations.

    Thank you.
  • BamBam125
    BamBam125 Posts: 229 Member
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    I'm 5 foot tall and female. According to BMI charts, I should weight between 95 and 125lbs. I'm currently WAY over that. Hence, why I'm trying to loose.

    However, when I was in college, and worked out 3 days a week for 45-60 minutes a day (15-20 minutes on treadmill, rest of the time was strength training on machines) I had visible ab muscles. It wasn't a full 6 pack, but it was a partly visibly 4 pack.

    At that time I weighted 135lbs and felt really healthy and fit. I wore a size 6 in jeans. I don't know what my body fat percentage was though. I do know that I could put over 70+ lbs of weight on the ab crunch machine thingy and do 3-4 sets of 12 reps though.

    It was actually somewhat problematic because I was also taking voice and my ab muscles being "tight" would make diaphragm exercises in voice lessons more challenging.

    I think my weight loss would be faster if I added strength training back to my routine, so that's a goal for this year. I've always gained muscle fast though. Waited tables and got really nice arms in one semester. I've got "linebacker" shoulders and equally muscly calves. I enjoyed weights a lot more than cardio too. I have a treadmill at home but not a weight machine thingy. The gym in the real world isn't as convenient as it was in college when I was on campus with lots of free time. Poor diet + desk job = no longer healthy and fit.
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    Third, Age: One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is age. As we get older it gets more and more difficult to get that chiseled or shrink wrapped look that is needed to get those model abs we see in all the pics. Skin becomes less resilient and adipose tissue (fat cells) tends to become "looser" as well.

    Can you elaborate on this looseness and what to do about it please? Thanks :)

    Fat cells are "elastic" in a sense. As they fill with lipid material (stored as triglycerides) they expand. When we loose body fat, what we're actually losing is the lipid material stored in our fat cells (the cells themselves remain). A process called Lipolisys converts the stored Triglycerides to fatty acids and glycerol in our blood (which can then be used in other processes to generate energy for our muscles). As lipolysis occurs, the fat cells shrink. Subcutaneous fat cells sit between the skin layers and the muscles. The skin is connected to the muscles by a membrane called the Septae. As we get older, that septae becomes less elastic. So as the fat cells shrink, the septae doesn't pull the skin back as well and the end result is a "looser" fat layer between the muscles and skin.

    As far as I know there's not really a whole lot you can do about it. It's just part of the aging process. The longer you go with a lower body fat %, the better your chances that the septae will eventually tighten and pull things back in. However, the older you are the less chance this will occur.
    Cold causes apoptosis of white adipose tissue (i.e. permanently kills fat rather than just "shrinking" it). There is a cosmetic surgery procedure that capitalizes on this, but you can accomplish the same thing a lot cheaper via ice baths. Didn't find out about this til I had already reached ~7% body fat, but will definitely be using this as part of my future cutting protocol. Non-shivering thermogenesis is core for this process, and seems to be enhanced by a ketogenic diet based upon my experience (normal core temp in ice bath while on keto diet was 99+, after reintroducing carbs stays steady in the 97.8-98.6 range with much greater shivering and a more rapid onset of shivering, which makes sense as shivering is basically trading glycogen for heat).

    As a side note, I've used Lyle McDonald's stubborn fat protocols with great success. I can't tolerate the recommended dose of yohimbine (the side effects are insane), but sourced some alpha-yohimbine and used that in combination with lower doses of yohimbine. This is definitely effective. OTOH, based on the limited self-experimentation I've done, I think ice baths may be faster (going to bulk to ~15% BF and cut from there, so should be able to find out at that point).
  • Jo5ie
    Jo5ie Posts: 33 Member
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    What body fat % should men and women aim for if they want visible abs? I don't really have a means of measuring body fat, but I know there are scales with metal foot prints in them that claim to measure it. The lowest body fat I've been (That I know of) was 18.5% because a health group came to my school and put my finger in some sort of clamp thing. That was the year I was training a lot in kickboxing and jiu jitsu.

    I think for women the possibility starts around 19%, and will depend on how you carry your fat. If you're someone that carries your weight in your midsection, you may have to go quite a bit lower.

    ETA: to the original question, I think it's technically possible for everyone, but may not be worth the sacrifices necessary for a lot of people- women in particular. I personally would not be willing to go so low BF% that I give up my curves to have visible abs.

    I've had 2 kids and my tummy is covered in loose saggy skin that is never going to go away without surgery. The more weight I lose the worse it gets. I know I will never have visible abs, no matter what I do or what my body fat percentage is.
  • LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo
    LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo Posts: 3,634 Member
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    Where does the quest for visible abs end and the journey into anorexia begin?
    As long as you are mentally healthy, you won't going to develop anorexia. Also you can't get abs with anorexia. Those two mentioned above are totally different so comparing them is outright stupid and full of ignorance.

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