I'm starting a tea fast soon, anyone want to join me?
Replies
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well, clearly fasting is doing something right for the op. She surely doesn't look the required age for membership of this forum, in her profile picture....
Just thought I'd say this again.0 -
I'm in! I miss fasting
I'm in a different time zone so message me when your fast starts
From the looks of your pic the last thing you need to do is fast!!0 -
Seriously am concerned with the people about to do this fast... for real. :noway:
The only thing you will acheive is a quick weightloss followed by a quick weight gain...
Well then let this be a test and research for you. If we all gain weight we will be sure to log it in mfp. If we die you won't see us anymore and then you'll have proof that fasting is bad and will kill you.
. No need to be concerned, you can't make people do what you want with their own body. That would be like me trying to force everyone to become a vegan because red meat contains creatine and it damages your kidneys. Or like me telling people to stop eating eggs because they are very high in cholesterol and the dead protein has been scientifically proven to cause cancer in rats. It would be like me telling people not to eat fish because the mercury it contains even in small amounts is very hazardous to your health. No I'm not going to tell people not to kill themselves. Everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their body as long as they don't hurt other people. Isn't this a free country the United States of America? Don't we have a first Amendment that protects freedom of speech, religious and philosophical beliefs?
I don't think I could make you up.
No worries, I wasn't typing to you.0 -
How did this become a vegan soapbox?0
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What about doing the Master Cleanse fast ? I do that but substitute the syrup for wheat grass juice. I also make a soup broth out of organic veggies, let it simmer, toss the veggies and drink the broth for vitamins.0
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You people. Lol.0
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Seriously am concerned with the people about to do this fast... for real. :noway:
The only thing you will acheive is a quick weightloss followed by a quick weight gain...
Well then let this be a test and research for you. If we all gain weight we will be sure to log it in mfp. If we die you won't see us anymore and then you'll have proof that fasting is bad and will kill you.. No need to be concerned, you can't make people do what you want with their own body. That would be like me trying to force everyone to become a vegan because red meat contains creatine and it damages your kidneys. Or like me telling people to stop eating eggs because they are very high in cholesterol and the dead protein has been scientifically proven to cause cancer in rats. It would be like me telling people not to eat fish because the mercury it contains even in small amounts is very hazardous to your health. No I'm not going to tell people not to kill themselves. Everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their body as long as they don't hurt other people. Isn't this a free country the United States of America? Don't we have a first Amendment that protects freedom of speech, religious and philosophical beliefs?
I don't think I could make you up.
No worries, I wasn't typing to you.
Delightful!0 -
4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".
<snip>
Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).
OK found the two studies referenced, one from 13 years ago one from 23 years ago
"Enhanced thermogenic response to epinephrine after 48-h starvation in humans.
Mansell PI, Fellows IW, Macdonald IA. (1990)
The effects of 48-h starvation on the physiological responses to a 30-min infusion of epinephrine at 25 ng.min-1.kg body wt-1 were studied in 11 normal-weight healthy young subjects. Starvation led to considerable alterations in basal metabolism including a significant (mean 3.6%) increase in resting metabolic rate. During the infusions, plasma epinephrine concentration rose less in the starved state (+1.47 nmol/l) than in the normally fed state (+1.73 nmol/l) (SE 0.06 nmol/l; P less than 0.05). The maximum increments (mean +/- SE) in heart rate induced by epinephrine were 11.9 +/- 1.3 beats/min in the normally fed state and 20.1 +/- 2.0 beats/min in the starved state (P less than 0.001); the corresponding mean increments in blood glycerol concentration were 0.07 and 0.14 mmol/l (SE 0.01 mmol/l; P less than 0.01). The increase in the metabolic rate above base line during the final 10 min of the epinephrine infusion was 0.58 +/- 0.18 kJ/min in the normally fed state and 0.78 +/- 0.14 kJ/min in the starved state (P less than 0.01). The chronotropic, lipolytic, and thermogenic effects of infused epinephrine were therefore enhanced by prior starvation, despite the lower plasma epinephrine levels."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717
"Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine.
Zauner C, Schneeweiss B, Kranz A, Madl C, Ratheiser K, Kramer L, Roth E, Schneider B, Lenz K. (2000)
The effects of food restriction on energy metabolism have been under investigation for more than a century. Data obtained are conflicting and research has failed to provide conclusive results.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to test the hypothesis that in lean subjects under normal living conditions, short-term starvation leads to an increase in serum concentrations of catecholamines and thus to an increase in resting energy expenditure.
DESIGN:
Resting energy expenditure, measured by indirect calorimetry, and hormone and substrate concentrations were measured in 11 healthy, lean subjects on days 1, 2, 3, and 4 of an 84-h starvation period.
RESULTS:
Resting energy expenditure increased significantly from 3.97 +/- 0.9 kJ/min on day 1 to 4.53 +/- 0.9 kJ/min on day 3 (P < 0.05). The increase in resting energy expenditure was associated with an increase in the norepinephrine concentration from 1716. +/- 574 pmol/L on day 1 to 3728 +/- 1636 pmol/L on day 4 (P < 0.05). Serum glucose decreased from 4.9 +/- 0.5 to 3.5 +/- 0.5 mmol/L (P < 0.05), whereas insulin did not change significantly.
CONCLUSIONS:
Resting energy expenditure increases in early starvation, accompanied by an increase in plasma norepinephrine. This increase in norepinephrine seems to be due to a decline in serum glucose and may be the initial signal for metabolic changes in early starvation."
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1511.long
Note the tiny number of participants, the description of the same (lean, healthy, young etc), and the references to stress hormones. Haven't stated it explicitly on this thread but have in many others on fasting/ famines/ very low calorie diets/ detoxes - these put the body into a state of stress which few would claim is healthier than the body not being in a state of stress. I could spend more time being sarky about drawing firm conclusions from such limited research but I don't actually think that is necessary.
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What about doing the Master Cleanse fast ? I do that but substitute the syrup for wheat grass juice. I also make a soup broth out of organic veggies, let it simmer, toss the veggies and drink the broth for vitamins.
What about not.0 -
Everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their body as long as they don't hurt other people. Isn't this a free country the United States of America? Don't we have a first Amendment that protects freedom of speech, religious and philosophical beliefs?
Um no this is cyberspace, people are on this forum from all over the world. MFP has it's own rules it doesn't run according to your constitution.0 -
I love it when US* Americans spout the first amendment and other US rules.
*I include US so as not to offend people who live in other American countries, you know... the rest of the continent.0 -
Everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their body as long as they don't hurt other people. Isn't this a free country the United States of America? Don't we have a first Amendment that protects freedom of speech, religious and philosophical beliefs?
Um no this is cyberspace, people are on this forum from all over the world. MFP has it's own rules it doesn't run according to your constitution.
Well I'm sorry to hear you live somewhere without freedom of speech.0 -
This thread should really be closed, it adds nothing and encourages unhealthy behavior. (nothing to do with your 'freedoms')Well I'm sorry to hear you live somewhere without freedom of speech.
It's clear that many of you don't truly understand what that means, yet you are so arrogant to assume that the countries that people are posting from have more restrictions on freedom - which is not the case.
In many ways freedom in the USA is more restricted, you're desperation for freedom has resulted in you all living in fear of each other.
We continue to be amazed my the arrogance and ignorance of many seppos (a term of endearment - don't be offended)0 -
Good grief. No wonder you're so quick to jump on a four-day fast.Everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their body as long as they don't hurt other people. Isn't this a free country the United States of America? Don't we have a first Amendment that protects freedom of speech, religious and philosophical beliefs?
Um no this is cyberspace, people are on this forum from all over the world. MFP has it's own rules it doesn't run according to your constitution.
Well I'm sorry to hear you live somewhere without freedom of speech.
A quick overview of the "free speech" section of the First Amendment: You are free to criticize your government and pretty much say anything that doesn't incite a riot or any kind of violence (yes, there ARE restrictions on speech in the US, such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater). The amendment protects citizens for being thrown in jail for saying things like, "I don't like the president" or "Congress is doing a crappy job."
It does not protect you from people disagreeing with you or pointing out flaws in your arguments. No one has infringed upon anyone's First Amendment or free speech rights in this thread. You are free to say what you want (within MFP guidelines). You are not free from people disagreeing with what you said and stating such. Telling them not to is you attemtping to infringe upon others' free speech rights.
People have come in here talking about what a great idea a four-day tea fast is and others have said, "Uh, not a very good idea (especially for someone like you who should have all his faculties about him at this time for the sake of HIS CHILD -- which apparently is not a good enough reason to eat. Whatever.)." That is not an infringement upon free speech.0 -
How does it work? I am definately in!
stated by a member over 30 years old
my head hurts0 -
I'm not sure its much of a fast but I will do just over 24 hours one day a week. I eat complex carbs. in the morning and at lunch salad for dinner and then its water and coffee till the next evening if I feel good I will have a small salad and hold out till morning for some protein. I am not telling anyone to do this but its good for a minimum of 2 lbs. every time. I have spent the last 4 years dropping from 140ish to 125 in 21 days. My diet has never failed me or hurt me.0
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How much of that 2lbs, is good old water weight, and less waste held in your intestinal tract? and how quick does it come back when you eat normally? Also, wouldnt you rather maintain than cycle around by 15lb every year ?0
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I do this when I'm cutting weight for a fight. So I do it about four total months a year. I want to boost my metabolism and then eat nothing kind of off the fasting subject.0
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ok, it makes sense given that you are a fighter and have to make weight. Thanks for the explain !0
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If you feel sick or can't function because you haven't eaten in awhile I'd be worried -- that's not how your body should respond to a lack of food.
That is EXACTLY how your body should (and does) respond to a lack of food.
WTH.
People be cray cray.
And I'm really thinking that there should be a common sense test to get a license to have children before people are allowed to have them. There's clearly a lack of it among many parents.
You're wrong here too - that's two for two. Did you bother to look it up before calling people crazy and unfit parents?0 -
Look up what? You need a peer-reviewed article to know that a lack of food will make a person light-headed and impair the person's ability to think clearly? Seriously?If you feel sick or can't function because you haven't eaten in awhile I'd be worried -- that's not how your body should respond to a lack of food.
That is EXACTLY how your body should (and does) respond to a lack of food.
WTH.
People be cray cray.
And I'm really thinking that there should be a common sense test to get a license to have children before people are allowed to have them. There's clearly a lack of it among many parents.
You're wrong here too - that's two for two. Did you bother to look it up before calling people crazy and unfit parents?
Are you the type of person I see on Animal Cops who doesn't feed his or her pets? Clearly, living beings don't actually need food.
Obviously, going a reasonable amount of time between meals shouldn't affect people negatively. But only drinking tea for several days at a time is not going to have a positive effect.0 -
DAY 2!! OH MY GOD I'M STARVING TO DEATH I'M ABOUT TO PASS OUT!! Lol yeah right.0
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If you feel sick or can't function because you haven't eaten in awhile I'd be worried -- that's not how your body should respond to a lack of food.
That is EXACTLY how your body should (and does) respond to a lack of food.
WTH.
People be cray cray.
And I'm really thinking that there should be a common sense test to get a license to have children before people are allowed to have them. There's clearly a lack of it among many parents.
You're wrong here too - that's two for two. Did you bother to look it up before calling people crazy and unfit parents?
... Would you like to link to famous studies on effects of starvation? Nazi studies? The Minnesota Experiment? The surviving Jewish physicians of the Warsaw Ghetto who published studies? The studies in the 1960s that followed up on these things (as obviously many were controversial) and found that yes, starving is not good for the body over a long period of time... your body will stop functioning?
Or perhaps you'd like to look earlier? Maybe into the WWI studies conducted on the effects of low eating done by the Bolsheviks, or in Britain and France?
Maybe look sooner? Maybe look at the decades of study the University of Minnesota continued doing, finding little change in the key that "starvation isn't good for a long period of time." Maybe check out some health psychology books that are often written by both M.Ds, PhDs, and nutritionists and entail different methods of ED recovery, therapy, etc. in order to get someone who is sick and starving to be healthy again? Because they're SICK and starving, not just mentally?
Oh, I know! Maybe we could just remember what "BMR" means... and, hey! Why do we need those calories again!? If we don't get those... nothing... happens... right?0 -
DAY 2!! OH MY GOD I'M STARVING TO DEATH I'M ABOUT TO PASS OUT!! Lol yeah right.
maybe not, but very soon your body will start eating your muscle mass for fuel and depleting it's stores of micronutrients including calcium
very silly thing to voluntarily do to yourself0 -
A healthy bodies response to a lack of food is what you're ignorant on so if I were you that's where I'd start. Whether it's healthful to fast or not is another subject you're welcome to research if you can pull yourself away from Animal Cops. (WTF, is Animal Cops?!)Look up what? You need a peer-reviewed article to know that a lack of food will make a person light-headed and impair the person's ability to think clearly? Seriously?
Are you the type of person I see on Animal Cops who doesn't feed his or her pets? Clearly, living beings don't actually need food.
Obviously, going a reasonable amount of time between meals shouldn't affect people negatively. But only drinking tea for several days at a time is not going to have a positive effect.0 -
Right, because a few days without food is exactly like being held in a concentration camp. No difference at all really.If you feel sick or can't function because you haven't eaten in awhile I'd be worried -- that's not how your body should respond to a lack of food.
That is EXACTLY how your body should (and does) respond to a lack of food.
WTH.
People be cray cray.
And I'm really thinking that there should be a common sense test to get a license to have children before people are allowed to have them. There's clearly a lack of it among many parents.
You're wrong here too - that's two for two. Did you bother to look it up before calling people crazy and unfit parents?
... Would you like to link to famous studies on effects of starvation? Nazi studies? The Minnesota Experiment? The surviving Jewish physicians of the Warsaw Ghetto who published studies? The studies in the 1960s that followed up on these things (as obviously many were controversial) and found that yes, starving is not good for the body over a long period of time... your body will stop functioning?
Or perhaps you'd like to look earlier? Maybe into the WWI studies conducted on the effects of low eating done by the Bolsheviks, or in Britain and France?
Maybe look sooner? Maybe look at the decades of study the University of Minnesota continued doing, finding little change in the key that "starvation isn't good for a long period of time." Maybe check out some health psychology books that are often written by both M.Ds, PhDs, and nutritionists and entail different methods of ED recovery, therapy, etc. in order to get someone who is sick and starving to be healthy again? Because they're SICK and starving, not just mentally?
Oh, I know! Maybe we could just remember what "BMR" means... and, hey! Why do we need those calories again!? If we don't get those... nothing... happens... right?0 -
Annnnd this thread is still open when it's clearly violated multiple guidelines so far, been reported on... and yet you can't make a joke about vampires or yoga pants.0
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Yup.DAY 2!! OH MY GOD I'M STARVING TO DEATH I'M ABOUT TO PASS OUT!! Lol yeah right.
maybe not, but very soon your body will start eating your muscle mass for fuel and depleting it's stores of micronutrients including calcium
very silly thing to voluntarily do to yourself
Can this dumbass **** get locked down now please?0 -
Right, because a few days without food is exactly like being held in a concentration camp. No difference at all really.If you feel sick or can't function because you haven't eaten in awhile I'd be worried -- that's not how your body should respond to a lack of food.
That is EXACTLY how your body should (and does) respond to a lack of food.
WTH.
People be cray cray.
And I'm really thinking that there should be a common sense test to get a license to have children before people are allowed to have them. There's clearly a lack of it among many parents.
You're wrong here too - that's two for two. Did you bother to look it up before calling people crazy and unfit parents?
... Would you like to link to famous studies on effects of starvation? Nazi studies? The Minnesota Experiment? The surviving Jewish physicians of the Warsaw Ghetto who published studies? The studies in the 1960s that followed up on these things (as obviously many were controversial) and found that yes, starving is not good for the body over a long period of time... your body will stop functioning?
Or perhaps you'd like to look earlier? Maybe into the WWI studies conducted on the effects of low eating done by the Bolsheviks, or in Britain and France?
Maybe look sooner? Maybe look at the decades of study the University of Minnesota continued doing, finding little change in the key that "starvation isn't good for a long period of time." Maybe check out some health psychology books that are often written by both M.Ds, PhDs, and nutritionists and entail different methods of ED recovery, therapy, etc. in order to get someone who is sick and starving to be healthy again? Because they're SICK and starving, not just mentally?
Oh, I know! Maybe we could just remember what "BMR" means... and, hey! Why do we need those calories again!? If we don't get those... nothing... happens... right?
We are talking prolonged starvation here. You yelled at RML that "Your body doesn't react that way when it doesn't get calories." ... And I'm citing studies that say otherwise. And basic human science.
You hardly specified "one or two days" of fasting. I practice a form of IF here... but I also dealt with anorexia for a LONG time, and I had way too much therapy from psychologists and medical doctors to accept "Four days of just tea is healthy."0 -
DAY 2!! OH MY GOD I'M STARVING TO DEATH I'M ABOUT TO PASS OUT!! Lol yeah right.
maybe not, but very soon your body will start eating your muscle mass for fuel and depleting it's stores of micronutrients including calcium
very silly thing to voluntarily do to yourself
I used to actually believe that too when I used to read tons of Men's Health magazines and Muscle & Fitness etc.. I thank God I ran into a book called "Medicina Natural al Alcanse De Todos" by Manuel Lezaeta Acharan.0
This discussion has been closed.
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