Mice become Obese WITHOUT Consuming Any More Calories
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For those of you asking how the metabolism of a human and rodent differ-Rats are carb burners; they consume and rapidly use large amounts of carbohydrates to survive. Humans are fat burners, meaning we don’t need carbs constantly since our body can easily store energy in the form of fat. Therefore, something that prevents obesity and activates lipid metabolism in rodents will have different effects in humans, unless those rodents’ metabolisms have been altered to mimic those of humans.
"unless those rodents’ metabolisms have been altered to mimic those of humans." Most of the mice used for these studies are genetically engineered to respond as a human's metabolic pathway would..
*oops, too slow... Robyn already explained.0 -
The BODY controls energy balance, not us. We have very limited ability to affect our body weight, especially over the long term. Body weight is overwhelmingly INVOLUNTARILY regulated by neural circuitry.
The BODY fights back. Dr. Liebel has shwon the metabolic consequences to weight loss includes a 25 % DROP in metabolism- far gretaer than what would normally be expected from weight loss itself.
Lastly, stop invoking scientific laws. The laws of thermodynamics do NOT explain how mammalian fact cells are regulatedl. Science does not at all understand the chemical behavior of fat cells receptors.
They EXPLAIN NOTHING about obesity. The question is NOT if they apply, it is IF WE CAN INFER from these laws the behavior of mammalian fat cells- which we cannot.
Learn the SCOP OF APPLICABILITY of various laws.
Realize that BOTH theories and laws could be shown to be wrong at some tinme if there are data to suggest so.There is NO HERIARCHY WHATSOEVER between theories and laws in science.
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The BODY controls energy balance, not us. We have very limited ability to affect our body weight, especially over the long term. Body weight is overwhelmingly INVOLUNTARILY regulated by neural circuitry.
The BODY fights back. Dr. Liebel has shwon the metabolic consequences to weight loss includes a 25 % DROP in metabolism- far gretaer than what would normally be expected from weight loss itself.
Lastly, stop invoking scientific laws. The laws of thermodynamics do NOT explain how mammalian fact cells are regulated, you fool. Science does not at all understand the chemical behavior of fat cells receptors.
They EXPLAIN NOTHING about obesity. The question is NOT if they apply, it is IF WE CAN INFER from these laws the behavior of mammalian fat cells- which we cannot.
Learn the SCOP OF APPLICABILITY of various laws.
Realize that BOTH theories and laws could be shown to be wrong at some tinme if there are data to suggest so.There is NO HERIARCHY WHATSOEVER between theories and laws in science.
Funny, my body weight went up when I moved less and ate more and went down when I moved more and ate less....I must be a wizard!
Maybe even an alien wizard!
oh btw
We just met
and this might be crazy
but I'm new around here
I'll insult everyone maybe?0 -
I lost 90 lbs eating all the way up til bed time (11pm - 12am). The difference is I watched my calories, no matter what time of day it was.
This is idiotic.
Your ticker says 89 lbs. Your argument is invalid.0 -
^ LMAO!0 -
My husband has done shift-work for 11 years, including a good amount of graveyard.
He's 5'9", 160lbs, wears a size 30" pants (the same size he's worn since highschool), has 20" biceps and oh, can race his mountain bike 100 miles in less than 10 hours.0 -
Yes, because My great great great grandmother's sister in law once removed was a mouse, so that means I am related to mice. No wonder my kids can relate to Mikey and Minnie Mouse so much.
There are also various Scientific studies that indicate that humans are in fact, NOT mice :noway:
Care to cite such studies?0 -
Who's "they"?That is why they say that you should not eat after 6pm unless you are going to exercise.
I'd love to see any peer-reviewed scientific studies which correlate weight gain with eating after a certain time. Otherwise, I'll stick with the contention that it's an old wives' tale which has been scientifically disproven many times.
READ SCIENCEDAILY, YOU BAFOON. THERE IS PLENTY OF RESEARCH SHOWING THE TIME AT WHICH YOU EAT MATTERS. YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT.
Please cite it.
Also, please do not send me PMs calling me an idiot, a bimbo or an *kitten*.
What is up with the second PM you sent with yet more insults and personal attacks. Don't bother with any more - you are blocked so you will have to stick to insulting me publicly.0 -
In spite of the way this thread imploded, I find the idea that weight might be genetically determined is actually hopeful.
Firstly, I think a genetic tendency isn't necessarily determination. It's like being geneticially predisposed to heart disease or cancer - it doesn't mean you have to get these illnesses, it's just a single factor (particularly if you do everything else right). Having this knowledge can make us more careful about other factors.
Secondly, maybe this means a new way of considering that we can be healthy at different weights. Maybe overweight people who are active and eat healthily will begin to be considered healthy instead of automatically dismissed as serious illness waiting to happen, and more healthy than thin people who rarely exercise and eat a lot of junk food. Then the phrase "I'm not doing this to be thin, I'm doing this to be healthy" can ring a little more true.
For those who said "this didn't happen to me so it's not true" might want to consider that just because it's not true for them doesn't mean it's not true at all. I actually had the opposite experience at a retreat where we only had two meals a day, breakfast and lunch, with a piece of fruit for dinner, I ate huge meals because I was so worried about being hungry, there is no way I was eating less calories in my two meals than I normally ate in three, but I lost 7 lbs in 10 days. I'm not suggesting this would work for everyone, but it sure affected my body in a way that made me drop weight.0 -
Interesting article.
I consume most of my 4000 calories at night and am currently at 11% bodyfat.
This leads me to believe that I don't share the same metabolism as a mouse.0 -
good thing we're not mice lmfao. Until we get some peer-reviewed human trials up in this thread, I think it's safe to say that meal timing does not matter one bit. Unless, I guess, you have some new time-based version of hypothyroidism/pcos0
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good thing we're not mice lmfao. Until we get some peer-reviewed human trials up in this thread, I think it's safe to say that meal timing does not matter one bit. Unless, I guess, you have some new time-based version of hypothyroidism/pcos
There are links to studies on humans.0 -
Sven (OP) has deactivated his account after being called out for trolling.0
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All I know it that when I eat, it feels pretty darn "natural", regardless of the time. So, I'm not scared.0
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Yes, clearly your personal experience, and untrained opinion mean that the carefully performed work of people with advanced degrees, filtered into one or two sentences by a lay period is "idiotic." Clearly. Science is useless and we should all just use only those tools provided to us by strangers on the internet. Wait...without science, we wouldn't have the internet. hmmm...I lost 90 lbs eating all the way up til bed time (11pm - 12am). The difference is I watched my calories, no matter what time of day it was.
This is idiotic.0 -
I lost 90 lbs eating all the way up til bed time (11pm - 12am). The difference is I watched my calories, no matter what time of day it was.
This is idiotic.
I agree. I eat whenever I want as long as it's within my calorie goals for the day. I don't care about a schedule as long as I'm eating only when I'm hungry.0 -
There are plenty of peer-reviewed scientific studies (on humans) indicating both that the laws of thermodynamics/energy balance are, in fact, valid, and that nutrient timing is, in fact, irrelevant.Yes, clearly your personal experience, and untrained opinion mean that the carefully performed work of people with advanced degrees, filtered into one or two sentences by a lay period is "idiotic." Clearly. Science is useless and we should all just use only those tools provided to us by strangers on the internet. Wait...without science, we wouldn't have the internet. hmmm...0 -
People seem to be getting confused here, none more so than the OP. Unless I am totally reading it wrong, the study is not about intra-day meal timing being relevant - it shows the impact to your metabolism when your whole eating pattern vis a vis night v day gets thrown off. It also addresses the propensity to eat more in that situation.
"When a species’ typical daily rhythm is thrown off, changes in metabolism also happen. For example, in people, night shift workers have an increased prevalence of obesity and metabolic syndrome, and patients with sleep disorders have a higher risk for developing obesity. Also, less sleep means more weight gain in healthy men and women."
While it is an interesting study and most likely there will be a benefit to more research into it with regard to obesity, it does not refute the laws of thermodynamics and it does not change the findings that intra-day meal timing is irrelevant.0 -
There are plenty of peer-reviewed scientific studies (on humans) indicating both that the laws of thermodynamics/energy balance are, in fact, valid, and that nutrient timing is, in fact, irrelevant.Yes, clearly your personal experience, and untrained opinion mean that the carefully performed work of people with advanced degrees, filtered into one or two sentences by a lay period is "idiotic." Clearly. Science is useless and we should all just use only those tools provided to us by strangers on the internet. Wait...without science, we wouldn't have the internet. hmmm...
Yes, and had the commenter referenced any of those studies, and/or made an argument other than to offer anecdotal evidence, I would not have replied in a sarcastic manner. Moreover, given how much we still have to learn about energy balance, metabolism, obesity, etc., in mammals generally, I have a difficult time imagining that most scientists in this area would make such a blanket statement as to say that "nutrient timing is, in fact, irrelevant." If scientists in this area agreed that nutrient timing was "in fact, irrelevant" this study would not have been done. Nor would it have been published if it did not have at least enough scientific merit to make it past at least a couple of reviewers for a relatively prestigious journal. I'm not saying the study is perfect, that the theories presented will ultimately be accepted, or even that crappy work doesn't get published, I'm merely saying that for someone who can only offer anecdotal evidence on the subject to dismiss the careful work of scientists, published in a well-known journal as "idiotic" is itself, rather idiotic.0 -
People seem to be getting confused here, none more so than the OP. Unless I am totally reading it wrong, the study is not about intra-day meal timing being relevant - it shows the impact to your metabolism when your whole eating pattern vis a vis night v day gets thrown off. It also addresses the propensity to eat more in that situation.
"When a species’ typical daily rhythm is thrown off, changes in metabolism also happen. For example, in people, night shift workers have an increased prevalence of obesity and metabolic syndrome, and patients with sleep disorders have a higher risk for developing obesity. Also, less sleep means more weight gain in healthy men and women."
While it is an interesting study and most likely there will be a benefit to more research into it with regard to obesity, it does not refute the laws of thermodynamics and it does not change the findings that intra-day meal timing is irrelevant.
This is also what I took from this, and I appreciate RobynC's comments earlier clarifying some of the more technical points of the paper as I didn't entirely understand those details upon reading the full study.
I also did not see where the energy expenditure side of the equation was controlled either in the paper, though, admittedly, I didn't spend as much time with it as I'd have liked.0
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