Is it more than just counting calories?

Zommbunny · January 2013

try eating/not eating your calories back and see if it make a difference or try a refeed or change your macros to more protein less carb etc
everyones different so its bit hard to give advice on breaking that plateu

fastsquatch · January 2013

A simple thought - as you lose weight your BMR changes - less body mass to support, less calories burnt at rest or doing regular activities. If you've lost 100lbs for instance, the BMR you have now may be as many as a few hundred kcals/day less then when you started. Maybe think of it as the start of a fresh attempt and re-test for your BMR.

Also, with regard to eating back calories, being cautious with the online estimations of calories burnt is a good idea, very few people actually burn that amount in real life exercising - those are lab conditions with no breaks and accurate intensity measures. Similar to car speedometers (which are almost always optimistic because that's what people like...) the calorie burn calculations are optimistic.

But more importantly for eating back exercise calories is that exercise is fueled by fat oxidation and glucose metabolism at the same time. The ratio varies depending on intensity but a good rule of thumb is that if you are working out at around 70% of your lactate threshold or below (corresponding to about the point where you start breathing deeply and fast and can no longer talk easily but can still talk if needed) then you are probably torching about 4kcals/minute from fat. You don't really have to eat those back if you don't want, but failing to eat the rest back will mean you're not re-loaded for the next exercise session, and then that next one will feel pretty awful - you'll be very sluggish.

Hope this helps

auddii · January 2013

Recent research shows that the RDA doesn't appear to meet the needs of exercising adults. One of the top researchers in this field, Dr Peter Lemon, stated in a recent review paper that, "the RDA for those engaged in strength training should be about 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass per day". Dr Lemon came to this conclusion after citing several studies (Fern, 1991, Tarnopolsky et al., 1992) which used amounts of protein ranging from 1.3 - 3.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

At Kent University researchers tested 3 different groups of people:

- On a low protein diet which was 0.9 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

- Another group eating 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

- A group eating 2.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

Both sedentary and strength training groups were involved. The results showed that 1.4 grams resulted in protein synthesis while there were no changes in the low protein group and, finally, the group that ingested 2.4 grams of protein did not see any more increased protein synthesis than the 1.4 grams of protein group.

1.4 grams per KILOGRAM of bodyweight.. 1KG = 2.2 lbs.

So that would suggest the max necessary level is 0.63g of protein per lb of muscle mass. Even less than I stated.

Note that the group who ingested 2.4g/KG of bodyweight (1.09g/lb) experienced no greater benefit.

Also, Dr. Lemon's suggestion of 1.7-1.8g per KG is roughly the same as 0.8g per lb.

Which would be total bodyweight, not LBM. Which ends up being close to the original number given for a lot of people.

BigH89 · January 2013

1.4 grams per KILOGRAM of bodyweight.. 1KG = 2.2 lbs.

So that would suggest the max necessary level is 0.63g of protein per lb of muscle mass. Even less than I stated.

Note that the group who ingested 2.4g/KG of bodyweight (1.09g/lb) experienced no greater benefit.

Also, Dr. Lemon's suggestion of 1.7-1.8g per KG is roughly the same as 0.8g per lb.

Which would be total bodyweight, not LBM. Which ends up being close to the original number given for a lot of people.

"Dr Peter Lemon, stated in a recent review paper that, 'the RDA for those engaged in strength training should be about 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass per day'".

I never disputed that it wasn't for total body weight.

If you were calculating it using lean body mass, then the protein intake would be even smaller, obviously.

Argue with me all you wish, and if you want to consume unnecessary amounts of protein that's fine: the supplement companies love people to believe they need excessive amounts of protein so they can sell them convenient protein shakes. It's long documented that around 0.8g per POUND OF TOTAL BODY MASS is the maximum level that yields benefits in terms of protein synthesis, in individuals who are not using steroids, and are engaging in resistance training.

EDIT: if you meant the number given by MFP then I'd say it's a little low? Assuming a person weighs 80KG at 30% body fat, then that would be 56*1.7 = 95.2g of protein. I believe the RDA in the UK for protein is about 45g per day for an adult. That said, most people don't engage in resistance training.

Mads1997 · January 2013

I have seen a lot of people here who eat back those exercise calories. If you burn it off, and then eat it back, you have not created a calorie deficit. Not sure if that is what you do, just putting it out there.

umm... wrong.

Your calorie deficit is built into the number MFP spits out. If you eat back your exercise, you still maintain your calorie deficit that you have setup in your goals.

No. Not wrong. The people who have talked about eating back their calories, are going by the little caption under their diary that tells them how many calories the earned through exercise. They are going back and eating what that little caption tells them.

yes, wrong. I promise.

Umm.... unless you have been reading my messages, you have no clue what I am talking about. I know when someone tells me that their calories OVER their daily plan are because they ATE BACK THEIR EXERCISE CALORIES BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS OKAY! Geesh. Carry on.

If they are following MFP calories exercising then eating those cals back then you are wrong. The way MFP is set up is to eat them back otherwise you are creating too bigger deficit.

DeanBurrows · January 2013

"Dr Peter Lemon, stated in a recent review paper that, 'the RDA for those engaged in strength training should be about 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass per day'".

I never disputed that it wasn't for total body weight.

If you were calculating it using lean body mass, then the protein intake would be even smaller, obviously.

Argue with me all you wish, and if you want to consume unnecessary amounts of protein that's fine: the supplement companies love people to believe they need excessive amounts of protein so they can sell them convenient protein shakes. It's long documented that around 0.8g per POUND OF TOTAL BODY MASS is the maximum level that yields benefits in terms of protein synthesis, in individuals who are not using steroids, and are engaging in resistance training.

Who gives a crap about 0.2 of a gram per lb?
even if the person was 200lbs TOTAL BODY MASS then that is only an extra 40g of Protein a day... not really that excessive hence why everyone says ROUGHLY 1g per lb

Vercell · January 2013

I have seen a lot of people here who eat back those exercise calories. If you burn it off, and then eat it back, you have not created a calorie deficit. Not sure if that is what you do, just putting it out there.

Well you should look in to what you are saying, for example my setting is nonactive and to lose 1 lb a week it is set for 1250 cals. I workout everyday today I burn 900 calories, so you are saying you should not eat calories back then I would only have 350 calories for my body to survive on for today if I did not eat my calories. The body needs at least 1200 to 1500 calories each day just run properly.Put in a workout you have to eat them back.Hey if you believe in what you are doing go for it .I would love to see your results in 6 months on that plan of not eating your calories back. If you are not working out hard then maybe you should not eat calories back.

BigH89 · January 2013

A point I'd like to make briefly, reading back on the posts is that I mistakenly said "0.8g per lb of LEAN MASS". This was said in error; I've always calculated using total body weight.

Who gives a crap about 0.2 of a gram per lb?
even if the person was 200lbs TOTAL BODY MASS then that is only an extra 40g of Protein a day... not really that excessive hence why everyone says ROUGHLY 1g per lb

Because protein is the most expensive macronutrient, for one. Admittedly there's no harm in ingesting more as I have previously stated. But the "more is better" attitude is irritating.

However, regardless of whether or not you think 40g of protein is a significant amount, you made a point that was incorrect. And remember we're talking about the upper ranges of requirements for resistance trained athletes here. Your average Joe doesn't even need 0.8g per lb, let alone 1g per lb, period.

Also, your highly adept assessment of that study by Dr. Lemon, which you believed to be based on lbs and not KGs would suggest that people should eat 1.7-1.8 grams per day per lb of body weight. So for a 200lb person that would be an excess of 200 grams.

Is it more than just counting calories?

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