1200, VLCD, and EM2WL
Replies
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You put in that you'd plan to exercise 6 days a week, but are sedentary. Therefore those 1300 calories are NET calories (you eat back exercise calories to maintain the correct deficit)
Helloitsdan's calculation was probably total calories, inclusive of all your activity. If you worked out 6x a week, and still ate just 1300 that would be far too little!
MFP says I would maintain on around 2000 net. I can actually lose on that.
For my cut, I eat a TOTAL (inclusive of exercise) of 2500 a day and lose fairly easily. This was trial and error.
You CAN still be sedentary if you workout 6 days a week.I'm just going to use the example that I have with my Fitbit.I set MFP to sedentary and its linked to Fitbit. My numbers here will STAY sedentary until I walk about 2 miles during the day..or around 5,500 steps(it adds exercise calories after that).If I worked from home and my ONLY activity was walking 30 minutes I would still be considered sedentary because I did not move often enough during my day except for the 30 minutes...If that 30 minutes was vigorous,then it might be different..I'm not sure.I had the same experience when I wore the Body Media armband.0 -
You are not different . (apart from the special snowflakes obviously)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html0 -
Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!
That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.
I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.
Best of luck to you!!!!
I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.
The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.
All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.0 -
Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!
That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.
I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.
Best of luck to you!!!!
I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.
The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.
All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.
Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.0 -
omg this thread made me hungry. gonna go eat breakfast.0
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To add - I find it odd that you said you told Helloitsdan about you wanting to lose 1.5lbs...because he doesn't go by weekly loss..he goes by the information provided on the tool calculations - which you can do yourself. He gives you the links to the tool and a walk through. Did you figure out the #s with this tool? No, because if you did, you'd see that it gives you your TDEE based on eating below your BMR, but under your TDEE at the appropriate activity level.
ETA: One more thing - did you even try this at all or did you just get your numbers and decide to throw a tantrum because you don't like change? Or maybe it offended you that maybe you were doing something incorrectly?
I looked at your diary..aside from today, you last logged around 12/27. And a few days from what I saw before 12/27 ranged from 872-1600 calories.
Are you even reading what I am posting? I tried it his way for a month. He didn't say a 1.5 lb/wk loss, that was MY goal, he told me to eat around 2100, and I gained about ten pounds before I tossed it overboard. By thanksgiving I was back to -30 lbs from where I started.
I didn't log because I wanted to take a break from it while I was sick and eating nothing for a few days, then eating sporadically because of how I felt, and today I logged what I ate because I wanted to.
And yeah, on average I was eating anywhere between those two numbers. 1600 were days where I would lift heavy and get ravenous afterwards. 1000 were days where I felt exceptionally motivated to lose.
Have you ever considered that the reason you gained weight when you upped your calories is because you have basically been under feeding your body for an extended period and when it was fed properly it thought 'Yay food, I'm hanging onto every calorie now in case he starves me like before!!'.
Thus being the problem with very low cals, when you try eating 'normally' again you have no where to go.0 -
Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!
That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.
I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.
Best of luck to you!!!!
I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.
The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.
All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.
Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.
Be sure to shut the door when you leave please....0 -
Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!
That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.
I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.
Best of luck to you!!!!
I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.
The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.
All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.
Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.
Whilst I agree about some of the posts recently, I don't see why it should make either of you leave mfp whatever the content of the posts are. Just don't go on the message boards. No point sabotaging yourself by quitting mfp completely.0 -
Well, that made for interesting reading! Nothing like berating someone else's methods before trying to shove your own down our throats.
I've done 1,200 calories and lost weight, but now I'm on 2,000-2,500 calories and still losing weight. Which is the right way?
All I can say is that on 1,200 I lost some sanity too, now I think research into THAT would be useful... OP, do you have any links for the loss of weight AND sanity on 1,200?? :huh:0 -
Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!
That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.
I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.
Best of luck to you!!!!
I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.
The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.
All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.
Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.
Whilst I agree about some of the posts recently, I don't see why it should make either of you leave mfp whatever the content of the posts are. Just don't go on the message boards. No point sabotaging yourself by quitting mfp completely.
(Sigh) .......Because it is so nasty and depressing. Trying to lose weight is a struggle as it is. I do try to avoid the message boards, but sometimes something catches your eye, and you think it might be something interesting and insightful, you click on it and hey presto yet another slanging match ...... :frown:
People use the anonymity of the internet to say things that they would probably never dream of saying to each other face to face. One would hope that a weight loss forum would be to offer acceptance and support. All of this ^^^^^^^^ just does not help.0 -
Everyone please just agree to disagree. There is no prize for winning. Let the man have his opinions in peace, and you keep yours the same way. This site is wonderfully supportive.0
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Everyone please just agree to disagree. There is no prize for winning. Let the man have his opinions in peace, and you keep yours the same way. This site is wonderfully supportive.
And you are a wonderful person :flowerforyou:0 -
My endocrinologist calculated for me & recommended 1200 cals a day. His advise is that losing weight means eating fewer calories over a given period of time until goal weight is attained - including taking hormones into consideration (since it's obviously his area of expertise) He also said that to lose muscle mass of any kind you would have to be eating under 500 calories a day - so I would LOVE to see some actual REAL stats on this from all those who swear that 1200 a day puts you into starvation mode!!! My doctors advise has come from years of training, research, & patients successfully losing weight & avoiding diabetes (like me) - so I'll continue to take his advise. It's working for me, when I can manage to stick to it!! We all just do what works after all.:drinker:0
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1. An endocrinologist does not specialize in nutrition
2. The fact that you are seeing an endo says to me that your metabolism is probably atypical to start with0 -
because I still have body fat to lose? I mean, you have to eat more than you need to gain, and you have to eat less than you need to lose. Eating maintenance and trying to lose weight would be silly, I'd spin my wheels.
And yes, I'll admit that the title of my post was... ok, let's call it what it is, bait. The Eat MOAR crowd can't resist a thread with ANY of those words in them, and throughout today I had had just about enough of the eat moar crowd telling me that the simple, non-specific advice I was trying to give to people was wrong, and then told to keep my opinions to myself. I was mad at the pretentious and the know it all, better than everyone attitude and smugness from some people in some groups. I saw a post where someone told everyone who was eating less than 2000, not logging, and not calculating TDEE as "Doing it wrong" and when I wrote a post to rebut it, it was reported and a moderator locked the thread faster than hell. Promoting eating disorders by showing people the results of documented, reviewed studies is not something that should be locked or shouted down, yet a lot of the eat moar crowd did. So bite me.
You guys make it too easy. Don't yell at someone for eating what MFP recommends, offer your own silly calculations, and then have no more to say to people when they ask why it's not working. "Just stick with it!!"
Wow, so you started this to incite a reaction...then you will probably bitch once this gets locked too.0 -
1. It didn't work,
What you are missing is the Road Map plan is a FAT LOSS plan, not solely a weight loss plan. The point is to reduce body fat % without sacrificing too much lean body mass. As such, people who do not have as much weight to lose may not drop weight as fast. And their original goal weights often are unrealistic once they actually do start losing fat and their bodies become smaller, they find that they don't have to lose that much weight to have the look they want.
You gained weight on it..... well then you either did not give it enough time, due to having suppressed your metabolism by eating too few calories for too long a time..... or you didn't do it right.0 -
My endocrinologist calculated for me & recommended 1200 cals a day. His advise is that losing weight means eating fewer calories over a given period of time until goal weight is attained - including taking hormones into consideration (since it's obviously his area of expertise) He also said that to lose muscle mass of any kind you would have to be eating under 500 calories a day - so I would LOVE to see some actual REAL stats on this from all those who swear that 1200 a day puts you into starvation mode!!! My doctors advise has come from years of training, research, & patients successfully losing weight & avoiding diabetes (like me) - so I'll continue to take his advise. It's working for me, when I can manage to stick to it!! We all just do what works after all.:drinker:
Yes that all lovely and nice etc but it's not what this thread is about really. The OP is advocating VLCD's to lose weight quickly despite advise from very experienced people. He is actively encouraging others to lose the way he is. If your way works, great, carry on, but don't try and get other people to follow you. We all do what works for us but the OP is basically doing what he is berating others for. Pot...kettle....much.0 -
Do you even lift?0
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I'll go backwards, I was part of the EM2WL group and I saw post after post after post of "I'm gaining" or "this isn't working". I'm only railing against his and his follower's use of extreme language, an inability to see people as special and specific and unique, and their use of their own internet calculators which tend to over calculate needs. They frequently intimidate and ridicule people who eat what MFP recommends...
And I ask, how is that acceptable language or behavior in a forum, on a website that is supposed to be uplifting and supportive? I eventually paid for a session with a nutritionist, and with my workouts and calorie cuts, her numbers got close to matching up with MFP. So when I offer advice to people in other posts telling them not to eat when they aren't hungry, I'm kinda not saying anything specific. When I cite studies showing that eating more causes weight gain, and eating less causes weight loss, I am accused of trying to "justify" my own unhealthy habits.
Most of the sucessful people in that group are already close to lean. They need to leave others alone, others who are going by this website's own calculations.
And I ask, what is wrong with eating under my BMR, if what I am eating is nutritious and I have vitamins and supplements in my diet?
I agree with you 100%
And thank you for having the stones to start this thread, knowing the crucifixion that was certainly to come! And congrats on your weight loss success.0 -
My endocrinologist calculated for me & recommended 1200 cals a day. His advise is that losing weight means eating fewer calories over a given period of time until goal weight is attained - including taking hormones into consideration (since it's obviously his area of expertise) He also said that to lose muscle mass of any kind you would have to be eating under 500 calories a day - so I would LOVE to see some actual REAL stats on this from all those who swear that 1200 a day puts you into starvation mode!!! My doctors advise has come from years of training, research, & patients successfully losing weight & avoiding diabetes (like me) - so I'll continue to take his advise. It's working for me, when I can manage to stick to it!! We all just do what works after all.:drinker:
Yes that all lovely and nice etc but it's not what this thread is about really. The OP is advocating VLCD's to lose weight quickly despite advise from very experienced people. He is actively encouraging others to lose the way he is. If your way works, great, carry on, but don't try and get other people to follow you. We all do what works for us but the OP is basically doing what he is berating others for. Pot...kettle....much.
1200 is NOT considered a VLCD. That description is for under 800 calories per day.0 -
My endocrinologist calculated for me & recommended 1200 cals a day. His advise is that losing weight means eating fewer calories over a given period of time until goal weight is attained - including taking hormones into consideration (since it's obviously his area of expertise) He also said that to lose muscle mass of any kind you would have to be eating under 500 calories a day - so I would LOVE to see some actual REAL stats on this from all those who swear that 1200 a day puts you into starvation mode!!! My doctors advise has come from years of training, research, & patients successfully losing weight & avoiding diabetes (like me) - so I'll continue to take his advise. It's working for me, when I can manage to stick to it!! We all just do what works after all.:drinker:
Yes that all lovely and nice etc but it's not what this thread is about really. The OP is advocating VLCD's to lose weight quickly despite advise from very experienced people. He is actively encouraging others to lose the way he is. If your way works, great, carry on, but don't try and get other people to follow you. We all do what works for us but the OP is basically doing what he is berating others for. Pot...kettle....much.
1200 is NOT considered a VLCD. That description is for under 800 calories per day.
for a man ( which the OP is) I'd say 1200 is a VLCD, as the minimum recommended for men is 1800.0 -
I dont really see anything wrong with what you are posting, what works for one, may not work for another, we are all different. IF it was some magic formula, or easy, would we all be on here! Cheers and good luck to everyone!0
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1200 is NOT considered a VLCD. That description is for under 800 calories per day.
only if she's 5' 3"0 -
I say, let the man eat the way he wants and when he gets to goal weight and doesn't see what he imagined he'd see in the mirror, he can sulk and cry and pout and all that.
I know what works long term and I'll continue to do what's best for my body and not fight against it.
:drinker:
Excuse me, i have 1700 more calories i need to eat for the day....0 -
Not to stick my head in the lions mouth, but how, on days where I haven't worked out for over a week, is the MFP recommended 1300 a VLCD?
It is not. The medical definition of VLCD is under 800 per day.0 -
I'll go backwards, I was part of the EM2WL group and I saw post after post after post of "I'm gaining" or "this isn't working". I'm only railing against his and his follower's use of extreme language, an inability to see people as special and specific and unique, and their use of their own internet calculators which tend to over calculate needs. They frequently intimidate and ridicule people who eat what MFP recommends...
And I ask, how is that acceptable language or behavior in a forum, on a website that is supposed to be uplifting and supportive? I eventually paid for a session with a nutritionist, and with my workouts and calorie cuts, her numbers got close to matching up with MFP. So when I offer advice to people in other posts telling them not to eat when they aren't hungry, I'm kinda not saying anything specific. When I cite studies showing that eating more causes weight gain, and eating less causes weight loss, I am accused of trying to "justify" my own unhealthy habits.
Most of the sucessful people in that group are already close to lean. They need to leave others alone, others who are going by this website's own calculations.
And I ask, what is wrong with eating under my BMR, if what I am eating is nutritious and I have vitamins and supplements in my diet?
Dan is NOT EM2WL.... two totally different people. EM2WL is Lucia and Kiki. All of them support the concept of eating at your TDEE -15-20% to lose fat and maintain lean mass.
Please make sure if you are going to bash someone in the public forums you get your people/stories and ideas straight. Better yet, shut it, starve yourself and carry on....0 -
Heyyyyy Tank!
You are one of hundreds of people ive done numbers for.
For free mind you.
Most people who have any issues or stall come to me and ask questions.
You on the other hand have decided to go on a "Smear Dan Crusade!"
So for that......
Image removed by MFP Staff
I bet its your lack of a good workout routine that held you back and given the fact you were only using my plan for a very short time...well...you deserve it.
You lack the #1 trait that people changing their lives need.
Patience.
Oh and i'll quote Brad Pilon about just losing fat and not LBM at VLCD "Dexa or it didnt happen!"
Enjoy your day!0 -
I recon you are just a tad rude attacking Dan for trying to help ......and your argument does not quite stack up...
Dan's numbers includes your exercise calories
MFP numbers as calculated does not include exercise calories - and they very clearly calculate your daily net by adding your exercise - so in fact you will find your daily number is not 1350 - but 1350 PLUS your exercise calories - which gets you much closer to Dan's number.....
As others have said Dan would also not have calculated a 1.5lb a week loss - he would have based it on a 1 lb a week loss at minimum, so instead of bashing the man why dont you recalculate the numbers once more with a one pound loss - and ADD BACK exercise calories to the MFP base calories and you might find the numbers are pretty even...
But you know what - you do it your way - good luck - I suspect we might see you join the trillions of other 1200 gang that does not eat back their exercise calories.......how many times do we see those posts "I am not losing anything" " I am so frustrated...."
OK - back to what I was doing when I got so rudely interrupted - making sure I eat my 2100 calories for the day - as I have been doing for the past 8 months :-) :-) :-)
quoting this for truth.0 -
I'm 5'1 I eat between 1700 and 2000 calories a day depending on my activity level at the time. Ive lost 33lbs. I think Dan is a hero as well as Kiki & lucia from EM2WL. These 3 people saved me from starving myself to lose weight. Maybe im special!! or maybe your WRONG!!!! And did not have the patience it requires to repair your body! Who knows, either way your a jerk for posting a thread with peoples names in it and spouting off things you dont know wtf your talking about! Now go be HANGRY and shutup!:drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker:0
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,
[/quote]
And for the last time, he didn't say 1.5, I did. He calculated my cut based on TDEE -15%, which I thought was silly and molasses slow
[/quote]
Remember, this program is for fat loss, not weight loss. We do not measure our progress based on the scale. We measure it based on how our clothes fit and measurements.
In my experience is way better! Why? Because the more you weight, the more you can eat!!
I would love to be a size 4 and eat like I am a size 6 or 8!!0
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