1200, VLCD, and EM2WL

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  • tabinmaine
    tabinmaine Posts: 965 Member
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    I am 5"4 and to maintain I need to eat 2300-2700 cal a day.....

    Starting to see a pattern here ? Mr. Eatlessandbescrawnystarvingguy ???
  • beachlover317
    beachlover317 Posts: 2,848 Member
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    6 months + Dan's road map + lifting heavy + eating 1800 calories a day = a big smile on my face when I look in the mirror.

    Oh yeah - And I'm only 1/2 way to my goal. I'll probably bust something when I see myself at goal.

    But - you do your thang. It's all good. :laugh:
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    I recon you are just a tad rude attacking Dan for trying to help ......and your argument does not quite stack up...

    Dan's numbers includes your exercise calories
    MFP numbers as calculated does not include exercise calories - and they very clearly calculate your daily net by adding your exercise - so in fact you will find your daily number is not 1350 - but 1350 PLUS your exercise calories - which gets you much closer to Dan's number.....
    As others have said Dan would also not have calculated a 1.5lb a week loss - he would have based it on a 1 lb a week loss at minimum, so instead of bashing the man why dont you recalculate the numbers once more with a one pound loss - and ADD BACK exercise calories to the MFP base calories and you might find the numbers are pretty even...

    But you know what - you do it your way - good luck - I suspect we might see you join the trillions of other 1200 gang that does not eat back their exercise calories.......how many times do we see those posts "I am not losing anything" " I am so frustrated...."

    OK - back to what I was doing when I got so rudely interrupted - making sure I eat my 2100 calories for the day - as I have been doing for the past 8 months :-) :-) :-)

    Seriously, OP-- why call Dan out in a public forum instead of pming him to see if you could figure out the issues you were having?

    Dan is awesome and he helps people for free. You could at the very least have just stated that you don't agree with the method. No reason to personally call out Dan.
  • Keenasgettingfitnhealthy
    Keenasgettingfitnhealthy Posts: 169
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    ok, honestly I don't care if you're eating 1200cals and losing - yay for you.

    The one thing that annoyed me in your very first post is that you dragged someone else into you argument - obviously without talking to them about your results first.
    This and this alone cause me not to even bother reading any of your facts and figures. Rudeness does not sit well with me.

    The road map is something I am going to try as soon as I get permission from the docs to get back into weight loss. Honestly I've done the VLCD, shakes and I even tried the 1200cals that MFP suggested for me (even eating back exercise calories). I was starving, exhausted, grumpy and not a nice person to be around. Every single time I've tried it, given up and BAM weight piles back on.. (hence the yo-yo dieting problem in my life)

    Based on the road map I get to eat 1970ish and still lose weight - anything under 2000cals will help me lose weight! I WILL be adding weights to my routine, and working out a lot more and that's all because I'll actually have the energy and fuel in my body to keep me going.

    Again if you want to get your own point across, don't be negative about someone who was honestly trying to help you, if you don't like their advice they aren't forcing you to follow it... You're a grown up and this first post of yours wasn't a very mature thing to do.

    Good luck with your weight loss and i hope for your sake it works for you.
  • kcallas88
    kcallas88 Posts: 192
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    And I ask, what is wrong with eating under my BMR, if what I am eating is nutritious and I have vitamins and supplements in my diet?

    Eating under BMR for prolonged periods can, and usually does, result in slow build up of cortisol hormone. As this hormone builds up, your organs operate slower than normal, this reduces the amount of energy you expend in a day. It is part of the fight or flight response in which your body determines that certain activities should be temporarily suspended in order to ensure you can survive an immediate threat. It is not a system that we are meant to remain in for prolonged periods.

    This is what ultimately causes people to plateau that have been eating under BMR for too long. Note that a few days or a week or two of this is fine. After a few months is when things start slowing down.

    The way MFP itself works is it goes SOLELY by numbers. It ignores ALL hormones. The 1200 bottom is hard coded in. It is a "dumb tool". It is useful yes and a great starting point for many, but it is only as smart as the person using it.

    Dan typically argues that you should eat UNDER TDEE and OVER BMR. This ensures you'll always be losing weight and also ensures your body's hormone levels do not freak out over excessive stress and too fast of weight loss. It is indeed slower than what most people want, but it is safe, sane, doable, and offers better long term success than crash diets.

    EVERYONE here wants everyone else to succeed.

    You are free to do whatever you want. Heck, you can stop eating forever and run 23 hours a day at 12mph on the treadmill if you want to. All I ask is that when someone gives you advice, reasonable advice, that you don't make threads basically to declare how stupid, dumb, rude, etc. you think they are.

    HA THANK YOU! It doesn't matter if you take vitamins or supplements. You eat under your BMR, you starve your body of the calories it needs to do basic things (like make your heart beat...). Therefore any weight loss you see, comes from lean muscle, not fat. Therefore you want to be what people consider "skinny fat." Its not sustainable in the long run and leads to weight gain. id rather loose weight and be able to eat a steak dinner with a big potato and not feel guilty about it. Plus I'm happier. I don't post rude topics and come off as a jerk. Hey, eating more may help that!!!!!
  • jujulamb
    jujulamb Posts: 195
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    You asked hellitsdan for help? I thought you knew it all? I thought you had it all figured out? Obviously not if you are asking for help, helloitsdan helped me figure my numbers and let me just say ive lost 1 pound this week and its only been a week since I asked him for help. You are rude for your post!
  • RisyaLifsheTova
    RisyaLifsheTova Posts: 305 Member
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    I say do whatever works for you, and stop looking for helpful advice. Your obviously going to do whatever you want just like the rest of us. Its your big boy thoughts that help you make these decisions. You can either take what he has to say as helpful or you move on. But insulting someones intelligence whether you believe them or not is rude as an adult. This obviously is being childish and foolish.
  • Squashypig
    Squashypig Posts: 60 Member
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    Woooah!! WTF?! Guys c'mon........

    If someone asks someone else for advice, they take it, try it and it WORKS - GREAT!

    If someone asks someone else for advice, they take it, try it and it DOESN'T WORK - GREAT!

    You tried it, it didn't work for YOU - MOVE ON and try something else. Do what works for you!

    I tried all this - it didn't work for me and I got frustrated! I was blinded with science, I moved on, worked out my calories and macros myself based on trial and error and google research, my only exercise being on an exercise bike, and guess what?.......I lost weight!!

    Go figure!!

    Please STOP all this *****ing and just get on with it. Go and read something more lighthearted and this community will be a much nicer place!

    Rant over :ohwell:
  • whenday
    whenday Posts: 64 Member
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    I don't really like to get into the drama and it's fine for you to eat however you like but I was just going through your diary and didn't see any one month where you logged 2100 calories. So how do you know you were consuming 2100 calories for a month like dan calculated for you if you aren't logging exactly what you eat? My guess here is that you didn't log your foods and you overate. I calculated the same numbers for you on the same calculator that I use for my TDEE and got really close to what Dan told you. And losing weight is a process. It takes a while to find what will work for you. If you can live on 1300 calories forever than go right ahead but I'm in this thing for life and I'm going to do it right this time and I really feel IPOARM and EM2WL is right.
  • schmorla
    schmorla Posts: 77 Member
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    Dan calculated my calories intake and I gained for about 6 weeks and then all of a sudden ...... WHOOOSH I started losing like crazy.

    He didn't have to help you but he did and this is how you thank him?

    Niiiiiiice.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    Dan calculated my calories intake and I gained for about 6 weeks and then all of a sudden ...... WHOOOSH I started losing like crazy.

    He didn't have to help you but he did and this is how you thank him?

    Niiiiiiice.

    I tell everyone that they will gain at first.
    This is usually what happens as the body adjusts and adapts.

    And its not a matter of it not working for him.
    Its him not making it work.
    Somewhere somehow he's missing something that makes him think its not working.

    Oh well!
    On with my day!
    ;)
  • calibriintx
    calibriintx Posts: 1,741 Member
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    If you can eat +500 calories per day for years to get where you were at this weight, then you can for sure NOT eat that much and be just fine. I will not let people walk all over me, question my character, or insult me simply because I don't conform to the ways of thinking of the loudest group.

    This is SO inaccurate. Was it meant to be a joke?? Before I found Dan, I was eating 500/day calories less than I am now. About 1200/day per MFP. Sure, I was losing. I was also hungry, grouchy, tired and about two seconds away from giving up, because there was no way I could stay on track. And I'm not someone who went from overeating at 3000 cals or something and then reduced. I was eating between 400 and 800 calories a day, binging a couple times a week, bringing me up to 1000-1500 on a binge day. I lost weight doing that and then plateaued and was miserable. I wasn't hungry, but I couldn't function very well. I'd sleep 9-10 hours a night and then nap for an hour or 2 during the day. Then I found MFP and started eating 1200 cal/day. At first it was a lot of food but then I got used to it and started feeling a bit better. My metabolism was making a comeback, I was working out, because I finally had the energy.

    It wasn't long after that before I was feeling tired, ravenous and defeated. I couldn't sustain 1200 calories a day and I was constantly having to fight my urge to binge. NOT because of habit or because I'm less determined than you. IT'S BECAUSE MY BODY WAS NOT GETTING ENOUGH FOOD. I found Dan, figured out that I need to be eating at least 500 calories/day more than what I was, and made the change immediately. Since my activity level isn't consistent, I calculated my activity as very low, and I eat some of my exercise calories back. Eventually I'll change that, once I'm more consistent.

    My point is, that I'm eating 500 calories/day more than I was and I'm losing weight. I'm happy, I have energy, I'm losing weight at a healthy pace. I can sustain this and be successful. I could not sustain 1200 calories/day and "be just fine". In your opinion, I lack will power and the drive to lose weight. In mine, I'm finally getting off the "diet" bandwagon and eating like a healthy person. Sure, my results will be slow, but at least they'll be worth it, because I can tell you right now, STARVING MYSELF TO BE FIT IS NOT WORTH IT! Why not? BECAUSE I'M SANE AND DON'T HAVE AN EATING DISORDER.

    I'm totally disgusted that you were on my friends list. Good luck with starving yourself and encouraging others to do so.
  • 31prvrbs
    31prvrbs Posts: 687 Member
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    I'm really not here to debate, since, as stated, this post was written to incite the masses. (I simply don't have time for that, I have my own hate mail to tend to...) We are all adults, and will ultimately do what we want to do anyway.

    I'm sorry that you did not experience the results that you were looking for, whatever they were, from either EM2WL or ISOARM. Both groups do make it clear that "rapid weight loss" is not the point...PERMANENT weight loss is.

    I will also say, in defense of Dan: The fact that he is willing to help 100s of people on this site daily, deserves nothing but respect. Not public disgrace.

    1000s of people on this site have been helped by eating more, obese or not. YOU have to find the numbers that work for YOU, within the TDEE/BMR window of cals (NOT below). When you find those numbers, even if they aren't the *exact* original numbers that you were given, this doesn't mean that you are no longer part of the "eat more" crowd. Both groups promote eating above BMR and below TDEE, and fat loss above weight loss.

    The point I think that always gets skipped when one says that it "didn't work for them" is that the only way it will work for anyone is by trial and error. Not jumping up to 2500 cals or whatever and then back down to 1200 when times get rough. There are a whole lot of numbers in between there. When someone "quits" ISOARM or EM2WL, and says "everyone has different needs." It doesn't even really make sense.

    Also, I think you'd be hard pressed to find two people in those groups that eat the *exact* same amount of cals. Everyone has their own numbers.

    Those two groups offer a much more *individualized* "plan" than a one size fit all calorie range of 1200 or whatever.

    But again, I'm not here to convince you of anything. If you've found what works for you, then work it. I apologize again that you did not find what you were looking for, or felt ridiculed for not being hungry...:ohwell:


    I have nothing but respect to Dan for offering his free time to try to help...:drinker:


    ~Kiki
  • gleechick609
    gleechick609 Posts: 551
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    Wow.

    OP, I don't think it was very nice to call Dan out in the forums. In fact, it was down right rude. As someone else suggested, you should have PMed him to tell him your concerns. If his plan didn't work for you and you gave it 4-6 weeks (as Dan always suggests) then you are unique like a snowflake and something needs to be tweaked.

    Dan spends his free time helping all of us with questions on TDEE, BMR and just general fitness advice. Dan could very well say, "Hey **** you, you do the research yourself and figure out your own stuff" but he doesn't because all he wants is to see EVERYONE succeed and get to their goals.

    With that being said, THANK YOU DAN! I owe you everything for my 50+ lb weight loss! Always eating over 2K, consistently losing, keeping fueled for my runs... Thank you for always being there, not only as a "weight loss coach" but as a friend. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

    Good luck, OP!
  • calibriintx
    calibriintx Posts: 1,741 Member
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    OP, I can't make it through this entire thread (exhausting) but I've read many of your replies and you can't see the forest for the trees.
  • Alex
    Alex Posts: 10,145 MFP Staff
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    Dear Posters,

    I am locking this topic and wanted to provide a brief explanation... this topic specifically calls out individuals in our community in a way that isn't appropriate for a public forum. If the purpose of a topic is to discuss the issues that is one thing, but if the purpose appears to primarily be to attack another member, then its a violation of our community guidelines and we are going to lock the topic.

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