Ending 1200 Calorie Bashing: Respecting Your Peers
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Until a few days ago, I was on a 1650 calorie intake. That would probably be equivalent to you being on a 1200 calorie intake. I am 6 ft and 238 lbs. I just upped it to 2080 so as to slow my eight loss down. (this is net. I eat back my workout calories) I don't see how that can be considered "to low" especially for a female. That sounds about right for a calorie deficit. People bashing it are just sh!tbags. Great post BTW. This was MFPs calculation for me to lose 1.9lb/week.0
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Awesome post!0
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Welcome to the internet, place of speech of all forms, bad and good. Take it or leave it.. If you aren't sure to post in the forums because *kitten* will say things..then don't0
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Great post, thank you!
I'm also on a Dr. recommended 1200 calorie diet and even going a little higher (like 1400) seems to stall me. I think it's a lot less extreme that the VLCD (around 700 calorie) medical programs that are out there and of course it's much safer than actual weight loss surgery. I really don't understand the bashing. I've deleted several mfp friends on here after feeling pretty much bullied with "you aren't eating enough" comments. There really is a crazy amount of pressure to conform to the "eat more to weigh less" mindset that is so rampant on this site. I researched it plenty myself (who wouldn't WANT to eat more, I was tempted to try it) and couldn't find anything legitimate online advocating it at all. It's been my observation that the people that strategy works best for just don't have that much weight to lose. Someone that has 100+lbs to lose isn't going to go into "starvation mode" eating around 1200 calories.
IMHO, there is no tdee or bmr calculator out there that is going to do more than give me a generic estimate, which isn't enough when you're fighting for your health (and sanity). I'm know I'm not going to make the needed effort to consistently workout and count every single calorie only to risk it being a wasted effort because I'm eating a lot more than I should because some online calculator told me too:laugh:0 -
I have PCOS, Insulin Resistance, and hypothyroid.... My doc had me on 1200 because I wasnt working out that much..and was on meds.... I think if you have metabolic syndromes..the "norm" will not apply.
If I eat too many carbs..I get really bloated and feel like crap..but thats casue my body has a hard time with them.. Do what works for you...I have commented on certain posts and give my 2cents...
now I eat anywhere between 1500-2000 a day..still have 10 pounds to lose..but I am way healthier than I was. I lift and do cardio about 6 days a week...take everything with a grain of salt...most women who eat 1200 calories dont have a medical reason...you do...and trust me..once you get closer to your goal weight and you increase your workouts..you will eat more than 1200...0 -
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I think that you might also consider that for every person for whom eating under 1200 calories is a reasonable option (lower metabolism, slight and small, medically supervised, etc) there are a number of unhealthy persons that are either willfully chosing to do so or another set of individuals that are either borderlined ED without knowing it.
While the screeds here tend to be frantic and go for extremely long threads without taking into consideration the points that you have highlighted which are valid for you, I would suggest that you also take the same advice you give out.
Your acceptable <1200 calorie lifestyle is not necessarily suitable as a one size fits all for most people. In fact, given the prevalence of people with EDs on this site, recovering EDs or just plain unaware of what a VLCD diet can do both physically and mentally when incorrectly followed it is the general good advice to avoid that type of diet. For the vast majority of people it would be wrong - that you are the exception does not negate that simple statistical reality on which MFP has been programmed and with which most people can relate to.
I hope you can find the balance to not be attacked on this site but also to not give the general impression that a diet significantly lower than 1200 is generally acceptable. It is not.0 -
Everyone is free to express their own opinions here, It's called freedom of speech. Don't read the posts if they upset you that much. You can not dictate to anyone else as to what they can or can not say here. That is a job for the moderators!0
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I'll be honest and say that while your post is really important in that it's a great reminder that MFP is supposed to be a supportive community and not a bunch of attack dogs, I think there is a valuable reason behind why people discourage others from eating 1200 cal diets and refer people who do to IPOARM.
Not everyone has all of the issues you described - a lot of the people doing 1200 are not obese and do not have medical issues. You get to be the special snowflake. Not everyone can also afford to see dietitians or use a bod pod. Blanket advice is very useful and I would say that for 99% of people 1200 calories is too low. Metabolisms do vary, but that's why BMR uses an average and people are encouraged to play around with their numbers after giving eating more a try.
I'm also going to point out that saying "1200 calories is ok for me! It's ok for you too!" seems a bit irresponsable given that you are medically recommended to do so. I'm expecting swarms of "I do 1200 calories and I love it so everyone telling me to eat more should shut up" comments.
But yes. You are correct. Supportive community, blah blah. Play nice, blah blah.
You said everything I was going to say, so, QFT.
QFT the QFT :bigsmile: :bigsmile:0 -
I'll be honest and say that while your post is really important in that it's a great reminder that MFP is supposed to be a supportive community and not a bunch of attack dogs, I think there is a valuable reason behind why people discourage others from eating 1200 cal diets and refer people who do to IPOARM.
Not everyone has all of the issues you described - a lot of the people doing 1200 are not obese and do not have medical issues. You get to be the special snowflake. Not everyone can also afford to see dietitians or use a bod pod. Blanket advice is very useful and I would say that for 99% of people 1200 calories is too low. Metabolisms do vary, but that's why BMR uses an average and people are encouraged to play around with their numbers after giving eating more a try.
I'm also going to point out that saying "1200 calories is ok for me! It's ok for you too!" seems a bit irresponsable given that you are medically recommended to do so. I'm expecting swarms of "I do 1200 calories and I love it so everyone telling me to eat more should shut up" comments.
But yes. You are correct. Supportive community, blah blah. Play nice, blah blah.
I know it was a long post, but I do hope you can go through it again with more time. I said, on at least three separate occasions, that there are certainly a great deal of people at 1200 calories who should not be. However, I just don't think that's up to us to decide and certainly not through shaming. I never said 1200 calories is okay for me and okay for you. You are directly misquoting. I said anyone with such caloric restriction should try to seek medical consult because it is risky. I explicitly said nothing I do is in anyway an indication of what anyone else should do.
Also, I posted on this before, but without a gym membership, the BOD POD costs roughly $20-$40 dollars. You can find locations where it is available on their website.
I spent 22 years of my life without insurance and come from a low-income disadvantaged background. I am the first in my family--even extended family to go to college--it's absolutely astronomical that I'm finishing my doctorate now. I understand the struggles of economics and weight loss. That said, I also know that there are a lot of wonderful free clinics and low-cost options for people and I strongly encourage people, especially embarking on significant weight loss, to seek that out.
OP, I just want you to look at many responses in this thread (particularly as Emma was hitting on somethings OTHERS said, therefore addressing not only you in her post); already, multiple people have not quite grasped your post or its intent, and have already gone to the "okay for me!" issue.0 -
wow that was the longest post ever haha
edit ya i didnt read like any of it sorry haha0 -
^thisEveryone is free to express their own opinions here, It's called freedom of speech. Don't read the posts if they upset you that much. You can not dictate to anyone else as to what they can or can not say here. That is a job for the moderators!0 -
This is a really awesome, well thought out, intelligent post. It's amazing to see that some people have still found a way to pick it apart, but that just goes to show you the mentality of some people. Keep up the good work! :happy:0
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Kudos to you! I also find the evidence supporting the health benefits of a low calorie diet compelling enough to keep up with: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120830085114.htm0
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Very well said! Everyone does have different caloric needs, and if your doctor put you on a 1100 - 1200 calorie allowance, ignore the rest of us. :-)
I was on 1200 calories, and I found that when I worked out too, I was a total grouch, so upping it a little worked for me (and made people around me not want to strangle me). But for one of my best friends, 1200 was exactly where she needed it.
Actually, I had to fight tooth and nail to see the specialists who brought me here. My first two nutritionists used caloric configurations like Dan (which again, work for most). They had tried 2600, 2400, 2000, etc with constant weight gain. I actually gained 25lbs in one month at 2600 calories. I also have severe intolerance to Metformin and cannot take birth control (due to the cancer risks in my immediate family). After nearly a year of dealing with horrible insurance issues, I got to a three-person team of a Reproductive Endocrinologist, an Internist specializing in PCOS, and a Nutritionist specializing in PCOS. They put me through probably 20 different tests for thyroid, diabetes, body composition, heart function, and indirect calorimeter testing. At the end, 1150 with 30 minutes of exercise five times a week is pretty much exactly where I begin to see consistent 1-2lb weight loss.
Even at that point, it has taken a great deal of experimentation to figure out the perfect distribution of macros and meal scheduling to keep me satiated and seeing progress at this calorie level.
This last part is why I find it so discouraging when someone having trouble at 1200 calories is met with such a knee-jerk negative reaction: because I know there are people like me who need to be at that level to see progress and I also know that it is possible to make a 1200 calorie diet delicious, fulfilling, and energizing--******IF****** that is an appropriate caloric intake for your metabolism.0 -
This is a really awesome, well thought out, intelligent post. It's amazing to see that some people have still found a way to pick it apart, but that just goes to show you the mentality of some people. Keep up the good work! :happy:
If you consider always questioning and staying open to further mental growth a negative, I suppose that would seem like a bad mentality.0 -
I know it was a long post, but I do hope you can go through it again with more time. I said, on at least three separate occasions, that there are certainly a great deal of people at 1200 calories who should not be. However, I just don't think that's up to us to decide and certainly not through shaming. I never said 1200 calories is okay for me and okay for you. You are directly misquoting. I said anyone with such caloric restriction should try to seek medical consult because it is risky. I explicitly said nothing I do is in anyway an indication of what anyone else should do.
That's the problem. That's why you hear the special snowflake line again and again. People always think they're the exception, when really they aren't. I agreed that shaming was bad, did I not? I'm not saying that we should shame people. I'm saying that we should educate people. When you eat below your BMR you have a metabolic slowdown. That's not my opinion, that's SCIENCE. Now, your BMR may be different than other people's or you may not care about losing lean body mass because it's more important to lose fat quicker because you are obese. But once again, that's not the majority of people I see on here who are on 1200 cal diets.
And my bad about the bod pod. I don't really know because I haven't had one. I usually just use my measurements, although I did read before that it was $75 a pop. Also, I do know that you can have a cursory meeting with a nutritionist for cheap. I work in community health. But you cannot have the bloodwork necessary to show a need for a VLCD in one of those cursory exams. All they can use is your current diet, your weight, and your medical history. So the advice doesn't really get to be that individualized outside of how a specific person can add in healthier habits.0 -
Well stated, well thought out and a great post. Thank you for taking the time to acknowledge that everyone is different and nobody should judge anyone else. We are all on an individual journey to health and what works for me, may or may not work for you. I know how many calories in a day are good for me and how I lose when I stay within that range.0
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If your happy with your choices then why bother about others opinions? I'm pretty sure the 1200 crowd have their own groups they can converse in without fear of being 'bashed'. Not sure this huge post was needed. It will only provoke the inevitable arguements. You do it you're way, your happy, it's cool. No need to shout at the rest of the world eating more than 1200 cals. We're happy that your happy :flowerforyou:
The issue is that numerous people defending their diet have had threads locked or accounted blocked for supposedly encouraging unhealthy eating habits--this is why I was so explicit that I do not recommend just anyone try my diet. This is exactly why I continually tell people not to try to diet like me or take me as a model.
There is really a need to do a shout out like this. I have received over 20 messages since posting this from women, 99% of them with PCOS, thanking me. They want to discuss good low-calorie meal options and talk in non-1200 forums without bashing. This is for them.0 -
This is a really awesome, well thought out, intelligent post. It's amazing to see that some people have still found a way to pick it apart, but that just goes to show you the mentality of some people. Keep up the good work! :happy:
If you consider always questioning and staying open to further mental growth a negative, I suppose that would seem like a bad mentality.
hahaahaha! I feel like we're trolling this thread. But we're not. It's weird.0 -
I love this post. After losing 50+ pounds on MFP, I've been gaining for no (apparent) reason since last May. I keep hearing the same sort of things, but none of it has helped me. Eat more, eat less, move more, you're exercising too much, eat less carbs, change your macors, etc. It's frustrating and very depressing.
Thank you so much for your post.0 -
Yes, there will always be a constant stream of seemingly thin people saying "Help I'm on 1200 and I'm So Hungry" or "OMG I Can't Even Finish 1200 Calories." Most people respond to these people with complete aggression. "You're starving yourself!" "You're just a loser looking for sympathy." "You just want to be patted on the back for eating 1200!"
You know what we need to be saying? "Hey, here is IPOARM. Check out if 1200 is actually where you should be; MFP might be under-calculating for you." "Hey, here are some ways to make 1200 calories fill you up--more veggies, alternate macro percentages, etc." Finally, "Did you check with a nutritionist if this is recommended for you? It seems low for your activity level/size/height/whatever and it might be safe to get medical consult." That is support. That gives options and hope. That is
Respect the individual. Please give people the benefit of the doubt and open discussions, don't shut them down. There's even a difference between saying "You might want to check out IPOARM and double-check your calories" vs. "You're starving yourself; eat more!!!." Words are very powerful things and we have to be careful with them.
You have shown-- how nice one can be with their words and also, the right attitude any person should hold for the fellow individual... Awesome!!
And so true... Words are very powerful.. well said...
Wish u good luck with ur goals and health.. take care!!0 -
Thank you for writing this
I wish you the best of luck on your journey!0 -
I know it was a long post, but I do hope you can go through it again with more time. I said, on at least three separate occasions, that there are certainly a great deal of people at 1200 calories who should not be. However, I just don't think that's up to us to decide and certainly not through shaming. I never said 1200 calories is okay for me and okay for you. You are directly misquoting. I said anyone with such caloric restriction should try to seek medical consult because it is risky. I explicitly said nothing I do is in anyway an indication of what anyone else should do.
That's the problem. That's why you hear the special snowflake line again and again. People always think they're the exception, when really they aren't. I agreed that shaming was bad, did I not? I'm not saying that we should shame people. I'm saying that we should educate people. When you eat below your BMR you have a metabolic slowdown. That's not my opinion, that's SCIENCE. Now, your BMR may be different than other people's or you may not care about losing lean body mass because it's more important to lose fat quicker because you are obese. But once again, that's not the majority of people I see on here who are on 1200 cal diets.
And my bad about the bod pod. I don't really know because I haven't had one. I usually just use my measurements, although I did read before that it was $75 a pop. Also, I do know that you can have a cursory meeting with a nutritionist for cheap. I work in community health. But you cannot have the bloodwork necessary to show a need for a VLCD in one of those cursory exams. All they can use is your current diet, your weight, and your medical history. So the advice doesn't really get to be that individualized outside of how a specific person can add in healthier habits.
Really, the special snowflake thing is just disdainful. It's really sad that that's part of your contribution. It's also just inaccurate. As I quoted in my original post--there are VAST differences in metabolisms; just because you plug something into a calculator does not make it accurate. If I see someone eating 1200 calories who hasn't gotten medical consult, then I always recommend IPOARM as a fantastic starting point. Enough already with the negative flippant comments.
Love,
A Special Snowflake--Just Like You0 -
I liked the OP. I thought it was well expressed and relevant for a small minority of posters on this site. Understanding the context of an individual's situation is unarguably necessary in order to give appropriate advice.
The problem has never been 1,200 calories per se. There is no magic in that number. It has simply been plucked from a number of previous weight loss studies where it has been shown to prompt weight loss when properly controlled in most participants and then endorsed by certain health bodies / agencies.
The problem is crash dieting and the law of diminishing returns it creates for a prospective dieter. I have been interested in health and fitness for 20 years or so. In that time I have known a significant number of people (mostly women) who have tried over and over again to reach their goals but never have. The frustration, the sadness, the despair it creates is heart breaking. The common strand is crash dieting.
Nobody wants to hurt the low calorie dieter. Nobody wants you to fail. People I believe genuinely want to help and prevent others from going down a route which although it may seem like a quick fix may in fact means your goal is put further out of your reach than ever before...the goal is long term weight regulation.0 -
already, multiple people have not quite grasped your post or its intent, and have already gone to the "okay for me!" issue.
Do I dare ask what's wrong with people saying that, and why you feel the need to tell them that their belief that it's "okay for me" is wrong?
There is nothing wrong with a 1200 calorie cut, as long as they eat more once they reach their goal weight. Cutting and maintaining are two different things.If you consider always questioning and staying open to further mental growth a negative, I suppose that would seem like a bad mentality.
Not for nothing, most of us ARE keeping open minds, trying to separate fact from fiction, and we just, on a most basic level, find fault with the logic that "eating less than a certain level will cause stagnation or weight gain"
It's much more likely that those who eat at too drastic of a calorie cut make up for that difference by NOT working out as often. Correlation does not equal causation.
Eating too little does NOT cause weight loss cessation, the associated drop in your metabolic rate would cause that. How do we keep our metabolism up while maintaining a decent calorie cut? Exercise.
You don't have to Eat More 2 Weigh Less, you have to eat less AND move more. Funny how half of that argument is always ignored. Eating a bit above the bottom of the hardest cut you can take will allow you to make better exercise choices today, tomorrow, and the next day, but it is by no means a iron clad rule that should be spouted off as "truth".
ETA: I love you all though, and I'm sorry if my logic got in the way of your dogma0 -
Based on your weight OP my doctor would have perscribed that. You are morbidly obese (in "their" eyes, in my eyes you are gorgeous)
The best thing for you to loose wight quickly is a very low cal diet. People dont understand you can pack a punch into a low cal diet, do you know how many ounces of veggies you can eat?! Uh...TONS!!! There is no real reason to be starving even on a low cal diet as long as u make good food choices.
I understand why your DR recommended such low cals. S/he obvi cares about your immediate health and wants you to drop weight quickly. S/he might change your caloric intake as you loose weight. When you loose enough he may up you to 1500-1600 and tell you to excersize more!
Either way, do what is best for you.
Dont worry about people bashing your diet. There is no need to explain yourself. Find y ourself a good supportive group of friends and stick with them.
Dont be afraid to post in forums. You will get slack from the "know it alls" but there will also be supportive comments as well and you should focus on those.
Also, 99% of MFPallers only think they are trying to help. Dont let their words cut so deep.
Do your thing!
Thank you! Just a tiny clarification. A lot of doctors do give morbidly obese patients a flat 1200 calorie diet to quickly lose weight. That is not what my doctors have done. I actually have a very low BMR and gain weight if I go much above that. It's likely, for me, that this will not change with weight loss. I'll likely be around 1200 throughout my journey and my maintenance will be a very interesting experience.0 -
Kudos to you! I also find the evidence supporting the health benefits of a low calorie diet compelling enough to keep up with: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120830085114.htm
Facepalm. Darling, that is really not the same thing. And VLCDs for longevity are usually under 1200 (around 800 I think) and not about weight loss. At all.
And really, would you want your life to be longer if you were constantly starved and never allowed to eat chocolate again? I think not.0 -
The issue is that numerous people defending their diet have had threads locked or accounted blocked for supposedly encouraging unhealthy eating habits--this is why I was so explicit that I do not recommend just anyone try my diet. This is exactly why I continually tell people not to try to diet like me or take me as a model.
There is really a need to do a shout out like this. I have received over 20 messages since posting this from women, 99% of them with PCOS, thanking me. They want to discuss good low-calorie meal options and talk in non-1200 forums without bashing. This is for them.
:bigsmile: agreed!0 -
Yeah, I got someone's so called expert advice given too, when I said I wanted to connect with people on 1200 a day diets to share recipe ideas......I can guarantee you I am not starving.0
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