What's the reasoning behind eating AT LEAST your BMR?

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Replies

  • jst1986
    jst1986 Posts: 204 Member
    Does the same theory work for all weights? As a big guy my BMR is way up above 2750 and I'm really struggling to eat healthily and get anywhere near that number!
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
    I would guess, if your TDEE and BMR are that close, you probably don't have much to lose and -10% might be a meter, healthier, more maintainable goal.
    Please help with this one.........Can I ask what you're supposed to do if 20% off your TDEE is less than your BMR?

    Should I up my exercise/activity so my TDEE is higher so minus 20% is still more than BMR? - Seems the healthiest most sensible way to follow this rule.

    Just eat my BMR?

    OR

    Eat TDEE minus 20% anyway?

    Thanks!
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  • sanndandi
    sanndandi Posts: 300 Member
    It's more about establishing a healthy body economy. Calories are the monetary system. Your BMR is the bill your body has to pay to sustain the roof over its head. Think of a bank where you keep your calories. You have to keep paying your BMR or the bank will start seizing your valuable property (muscles). You invest calories into a diversified portfolio and you can watch your body prosper (muscle growth) while trimming away unnecessary expenditure (fat stores). It's pretty basic budgeting really only with some slight mechanical differences.
    Like how you explained that. Makes a lot of sense
  • IntoTheSky
    IntoTheSky Posts: 390 Member
    can your body tell the difference between losing calories to exercise and losing calories to BMR? my guess is probably not.

    Yes. It can. In exercise, you are working muscles. Even in cardio. You are strengthening your heart and lungs and legs. If you do not eat enough to feed those muscles, your body will pull from THEM to find the energy it needs to still function. Assuming that you are not bedridden, you at least move *some*. Yes, you will still lose weight. However, you will lose muscle and will be all weak and jiggly. If that is your goal, then, by all means, go for it. But, most people would like to have good skin and hair and be firm (not even ripped, just firm) and have all of their organs work properly.
  • I am no fitness guru or nutrition expert, but I would guess that BMR would be based on your LEAN body mass and not your ACTUAL body mass. That is something that the BMR calculators cannot even come close to estimating. Meaning that the calculator would be more accurate the "skinnier" you become (or the closer your lean body mass is to the "estimated percentage" the calculator uses).

    For a lack of articulation....fat is stored energy. The less you have of it, the more important it becomes that you eat at or above your ACTUAL BMR. The more you have....well....it shouldn't be an immediate concern since your body has stored energy for times of hardship.
  • Thanks 3foldchord, I've got about another 40lbs to lose to get within a healthy BMI which I would have considered a lot! I'm still in the Obese catergory of things. I put Sedentary in as my activity because I do a desk job so maybe that's why the difference is so small? I really don't know and this is all so new to me!
  • fbmandy55
    fbmandy55 Posts: 5,263 Member
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  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member

    Your maintenance numbers are reversed, it takes 6 calories to maintain muscle, and only 2 or 3 to maintain fat.

    thanks!

    thats what i meant.
  • 714rah714
    714rah714 Posts: 759 Member
    It's just far too much of a deficit. You will lose a lot of muscle mass along with some fat loss. If you lose a lot of muscle, your weight loss will slow.
    Because we all have so much muscle, oh wait a minute, no, thats fat, never mind.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    How did thread last past 3 or 4 posts? There's no arguing the other side. Whatever. Thread needs more dancing



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  • Here here!! OMG! The self righteous crap!
  • Exactly! Hey, let's all eat 1200cal of crap (say, 1200 cal worth of Tim Tams for example for those chocaholics out there) and compare the real life results to 1200cal of quality nutrition (1200 is just a hypothetical number for all you namby pambies out there). It's not rocket science. How many times do you want to headbutt the wall before turning to plain ole every day common sense. I used to be on a similar support group forum, and it was day in day out *****ing over mere grams of consumption, and then listening to these same people have endless conversations at a Relay For Life event over pizza delivery fantasies, and hearing their stats that they were all hovering around their ideal weights ranging from 50 odd kgs to 60 odd kgs was enough to make me sick. Who gives a ****e about the finer points? Go have a nutritious meal, look in the mirror, learn to like yourself again, and get on with your life!
  • lazykerry
    lazykerry Posts: 31 Member
    It's probably a good rule of thumb not to eat below your BMR if you're already at a healthy weight, but your organs are not going to starve to death if you have 100 pounds of fat on your body to feed them.
  • BlackTimber
    BlackTimber Posts: 230 Member
    It's probably a good rule of thumb not to eat below your BMR if you're already at a healthy weight, but your organs are not going to starve to death if you have 100 pounds of fat on your body to feed them.

    Sounds logical but it doesn't typically work that way. If a person is 100 pounds overweight then they are most likely insulin resistant to some extent and will most definitely be leptin resistant. Leptin is the "satiety" hormone that is located mainly in your adipose tissue and makes a connection with your hypothalamus. Leptin is what tells your body that you have had enough to eat, it also plays a part in controlling your metabolism. When eating at a deficit beneath your BMR, your endocrine system will see that as a time of famine. Your metabolism will slow down and your body will start saving your fat and using your muscle as energy. On top of that by being insulin resistant you will have more insulin in your blood stream than you should, this also prevents your body from being able to use the stored fat. You actually have it completely backwards. A body that is in the "normal" fat range will have a more "normal" reaction to the reduced calories. Our bodies want homeostasis, but at some point things get out of control and we enter the world of the obese. It's at this point that our bodies no longer do a good job at increasing or slowing our metabolism to keep thing under control. It's all about hormones. Hunger is hormonal, as is satiety. The problem in part is that no one really know the whole story - new things are being discovered all the time.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Just something I was thinking about, as I see people repeatedly say that you shouldn't eat below your BMR. The only explanation I've seen is along the lines of, "Because that's what your body needs to do its most basic functions," but that doesn't really make sense considering the whole point of a caloric deficit is to eat less than what your body needs to function so that it takes from its stored energy.

    By that logic, and overweight person could still survive off their body fat without eating a single thing. It simply doesn't work that way though. If you don't eat a minimum amount of food each day, then you are putting undue stress on your body. In the long term, it can wreak havoc on hormone levels, especially cortisol.
  • DawnieB1977
    DawnieB1977 Posts: 4,248 Member
    I doubt your BMR is 1500. That's Probably TDEE.

    Um, yes it is. I'm a 35 year old 5'6 female who weighs 163. I workout 5 times a week as stated and am always on the go. I calculated my TDEE once, but can't remember what it was. It was over 2000 though.

    According to this http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/ my BMR is 1509.

    K


    k - very humble!

    So is my personal trainer wrong saying I should eat between 1400 and 1500 calories a day? My friend is shorter than me and weighs more than I do and she eats around the same and is losing steadily.

    I honestly think I would gain weight if I ate more!
  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
    k - very humble!

    So is my personal trainer wrong saying I should eat between 1400 and 1500 calories a day? My friend is shorter than me and weighs more than I do and she eats around the same and is losing steadily.

    I honestly think I would gain weight if I ate more!

    Depends on how many times and how much you workout.. Most PT's aren't nutritionists and they give bad advice.. Reasoning?? You lose weight, they look good, you start eating, you gain weight, then you go back to them to lose more weight = More $$ for them.

    If you ate correctly for your activity level, you wouldn't gain weight.. most people would be shocked to know what they could eat and don't.

    This whole topic should just be closed when it turned into the first poster arguing with everyone.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    I've been averaging nearly 1000 calories burned a day and lemme tell ya its hard to eat that back without cheating.

    It is *never* "cheating" to maintain a reasonable calorie deficit. WTH?
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    I doubt your BMR is 1500. That's Probably TDEE.

    Why? That seems reasonable to me. My BMR is around 1500 and my TDEE is closer to 1900-2100 (I forget it's been awhile since I calculated it.)

    1500 is an awfully low TDEE.
  • lisamarie2181
    lisamarie2181 Posts: 560 Member
    Wow. You really have to ask?

    BMR is absolute minimum. No moving. Just laying in bed.

    When you get up, go to work, walk to the pub, have a beer and a sandwich, then go to the gym and lift heavy weights for an hour, all that is on top of BMR. That's your TDEE, which you seem to know o by are you asking. So, most people gain weight because they eat way above their TDEE. If you eat at TDEE. You will neither gain nor lose. If you eat less than TDEE, you lose. But, because your basic survival needs are at BMR, You don't want to eat below BMR. Somewhere above BMR and below TDEE is your weight loss program.

    I hope that's clear.

    It is clear; however, it doesn't answer my question as it completely disregards my argument.

    Ok -- how about the following since you understand that below TDEE already creates a deficit.

    Eating below your BMR is ok under certain conditions -- limited amount of time and for someone who has nutrient/calorie stores.

    The issue isn't that you have to eat above a certain magical number. It is that at eating well-below a reasonable deficit you are going to have the following things going on:

    1) insufficient nutrients - the less you eat, the less likelyhood you will have sufficient diversity and volume of essential nutrients. oops.

    2) protein catabolic/anabolic balance - at large deficits the on going processes will tend to shift to a balance which favors using up protein from your muscles elsewhere. One particular place is nutrient transport - do you prefer to have muscles or have them go to make albumin miscelles to tranport food (that you aren't eating). Everyone that loses weight fights with this balance. Large deficits make it harder, much harder. About 1-3% of your protein is being replaced every day. One wants to assure that their is sufficient nutrients to keep that equilibrium in the right direction. Otherwise oops.

    3) energy levels - if you are active, lower energy will impact performance in activities and general life. oops.

    4) metabolic processes governed by hormonal balance - these process manage things your metabolism but also like hair, hunger, mood, skin and brain function. Long term you really do not want to screw up with that. big oops.

    4b) fast drops impact your body in other ways: loose skin, internal elasticity and kidney stones are some of the other macro physiological risks.

    5) mental - large deficits are mentally hard and lead to some disfunction (some of it driven by point 4) - this includes simply dropping the lifestyle change (too hard), binging, depression, moodiness to full eating disorders (see startvation studies). Another big oops.

    6) lifestyle - one should be developing long term habits that work for a lifetime, and in all situations - below BMR eating is boring, painful and socially difficult.

    Your BMR doesn't have to do with just weight loss, it has to do with your health. Eating at least your BMR is insuring that your body is getting the proper amount of calories for you body to function PROPERLY. you are not going to die tomorrow or see an effect in a short period of time. Consistently eating below BMR for long periods will effect your organs and how they function. It can effect your health down the road.

    I have seen plenty of people losing hair and having other side effects from not eating enough calories because they are malnourished. Not everything is just about getting pounds off, these things matter for your health and how your body functions.

    ETA - I quoted this cuz it was a good post :)
  • I've been averaging nearly 1000 calories burned a day and lemme tell ya its hard to eat that back without cheating.

    It is *never* "cheating" to maintain a reasonable calorie deficit. WTH?

    I mean cheating on nutrition. It'd be hard to eat a 1000 calories of salad haha 1000 calories is a lot of extra food to make up. Its hardto make that 1000 calories back and not load up on unhealthy foods to do it. Especially when you're not hungry.

    My BMR is 2100 and my TDEE is over 3200 i was eating around 1200 calories a day when I did it 2 years ago and lost a lot of muscle mass. My goal weight's BMR is 1800 (165lbs, 69"). I would suggest if you have to eat below your current bmr eat at your goal weight's BMR

    Guys aand gals, if you eat below your TDEE and you lose weight you are in a fat burning caloric defecit. Why go above and beyond to eat below your BMR? muscle burn is a real possibility so why bother risking it if you can accomplish the same task eating above it? As stated previously why would you want to hinder skin elasticity to lose weight faster(debatable) especially if you want to look good. We aare trying to lose inches not lbs. Anyway hope you are all successful however you do it! :) Peace out!
  • Schmelvie
    Schmelvie Posts: 233 Member
    By your rationale (to the OP), why eat at all until you've reached your goal weight? Why not just give up eating completely until you've lost the weight?

    It's not as simple as doing the math. There are a lot of physiological things at play in our bodies that can make the math obsolete.
  • acidosaur
    acidosaur Posts: 295 Member
    How did thread last past 3 or 4 posts? There's no arguing the other side. Whatever. Thread needs more dancing



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    yesssss the wire :D
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    I've been averaging nearly 1000 calories burned a day and lemme tell ya its hard to eat that back without cheating.

    It is *never* "cheating" to maintain a reasonable calorie deficit. WTH?

    I mean cheating on nutrition. It'd be hard to eat a 1000 calories of salad haha 1000 calories is a lot of extra food to make up. Its hardto make that 1000 calories back and not load up on unhealthy foods to do it. Especially when you're not hungry.

    My BMR is 2100 and my TDEE is over 3200 i was eating around 1200 calories a day when I did it 2 years ago and lost a lot of muscle mass. My goal weight's BMR is 1800 (165lbs, 69"). I would suggest if you have to eat below your current bmr eat at your goal weight's BMR

    Guys aand gals, if you eat below your TDEE and you lose weight you are in a fat burning caloric defecit. Why go above and beyond to eat below your BMR? muscle burn is a real possibility so why bother risking it if you can accomplish the same task eating above it? As stated previously why would you want to hinder skin elasticity to lose weight faster(debatable) especially if you want to look good. We aare trying to lose inches not lbs. Anyway hope you are all successful however you do it! :) Peace out!

    If you aren't hungry when eating only 1000 calories, it's because you screwed up your hormones/metabolism. And there are TONS of high calorie foods that are nutrient dense.

    I suggest eating between your TDEE and BMR with plenty of protein to maintain LBM.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    By your rationale (to the OP), why eat at all until you've reached your goal weight? Why not just give up eating completely until you've lost the weight?

    It's not as simple as doing the math. There are a lot of physiological things at play in our bodies that can make the math obsolete.

    Great comment! :flowerforyou:
  • mavajo
    mavajo Posts: 10 Member
    So much wrong information in here. The only real concern with eating below your BMR is potentially being deficient in macro- and micro-nutrients, because your overall intake is so low. But there are ways to solve that.

    Eating below BMR will not cause vital functions to shut down. That's just complete crap. Your body stores fat for a reason - to make up for the shortfall in daily energy consumption. Your body is not going to start limiting or shutting down vital body functions while it has pound upon pound of energy stored away just for such an occasion.

    There is absolutely ZERO evidence what-so-ever of vital body functions shutting down due to a person eating below BMR. Zero. None. It's pure soccer mom conjecture.

    Insulin resistance, low leptin levels, etc...that's all just noise. Don't get me wrong - those things are all relevant in terms of your overall fat loss goals. But in terms of whether it's going to cause your body to be energy deficient and start shutting down vital organs - no relevance. I've yet to see someone starve to death with 40 pounds of fat still sitting on their bones.

    Anyone who tells you that eating below your BMR is going to cause vital functions to shut down is an idiot, and you should never listen to anything else they say about fat loss, nutrition, etc.