Extreme muscle soreness and/or DOMS

You can design a program not using the same muscles day after lifting so intensely.

Try to keep the HR in the fat-burning zone, not for that purpose, but because that usually means you aren't putting a hard load on the muscles. That's the reason the zone is more correctly called Active Recovery zone.

So that would be a slower gentler workout. And if it seems to slow, view it this way - you are training your fat-burning aerobic system on that day, and allowing full recovery from the lifting to really get the biggest benefit from that too. Blood flow into muscles helps too.

Now, if you want better cardio intensity because you just enjoy pushing yourself hard, do it the day before lifting, knowing that the more intense you make it, the more tired the muscle will be, the less effort you'll be able to put into the lifting, meaning the less results from it.

Got pick your focus and desired results.

Maybe my problem is that I can't seem to pick a specific focus? I've actually wondered about that. But I struggle with boredom and have too many varied goals.

I like to ride my bike and have done a few century rides and want to keep that up in order to do more century rides this summer plus a couple of short bicycle touring trips I'm planning.

I like to hike and am adding mountaineering via a class I'm taking this Jan-June which will include climbing and the need for more strength to carry a heavy pack up steep hills and the muscle endurance to do this. And I'm starting to do some more focused upper-body strength conditioning because we will be doing some climbing which will require this so I can pull myself up using ropes. My hand strength is fairly poor so I'm adding in various farmer carries especially pinching a weight-plate between my fingers and carrying them to increase hand strength.

I like to run....well, don't really like it but want to be able to do it. I've worked very hard to get to where I can do a 5k although I'll never be fast I just want to maintain my ability to go the distance.

And I like to lift because it makes me stronger in general and the other, many benefits of lifting.

If I had to give up any of these to focus on just one major goal, I would be sad. These are the things that make life worth living. I will never be the fastest or fittest cyclist or runner, or the strongest weight-lifter, or the best mountaineer. I know that and it's OK. I'm not working out for medals. But I want to continue to participate in these activities because they're fun.

So, yeah, I'm trying to juggle it all and I just might not be doing the best job of juggling.

Thanks for all the responses. :flowerforyou: In one sense, I pretty much knew what you all wrote but it was still very helpful to see it all in one place. I ended up taking all your good advice (except seeing the doctor, sorry, just not right now) and doing a bit more research.

I also ended up getting the best info from the wonderful Lyle McDonald at Body Recomposition. I should known to spend some time there first! He wrote a great 9-part series called "Overtraining, Overreaching, and all the Rest". If he has a 9-part series, then I know this is an important issue! Here's the link if anybody wants to read: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/overtraining-overreaching-and-all-the-rest-part-1.html

According to McDonald, there are seven symptoms of overtraining/overreaching:
(1) constant muscular fatigue and/or soreness, both muscle and joints
(2) lack of motivation to train/lethargy/fatigue
(3) higher incidence of illness
(4) depression, hostility, anger, just mood issues in general
(5) sleep disruptions
(6) impaired appetite (either up or down)
(7) increased resting heart rate and/or blood pressure (except in the case of B-type overtraining - read the article for more info on this)

Of these, I had:
1 - Oh, yeah! Just about everything ached constantly;
2 - Yup, the thought of exercise almost made me want to cry but, at the same time, the idea of not exercising also made me want to cry as I fear losing what I've worked so hard to achieve. Guilt and all that.
3 - Yup, a very low-grade cold that I just couldn't shake, nothing serious
4 - Oh, yeah! I've battled depression for several decades and exercise and better nutrition have helped eliminate it but I was starting to feel myself sinking into it and it was scaring me. I was definitely getting negative and I hate that.
5 - Yup, again. I was having severe insomnia for the last couple of weeks to the point where I was lucky to sleep for 2 hours at a stretch around the time I wrote the OP.
6 - Oh, yes! I actually ate within my calorie budget during the holidays but during New Year's week, I was going crazy wanting to eat everything in sight, felt myself getting out-of-control
7 - I never take my resting heart rate or blood pressure as mine have always been excellent (even when I was much heavier and totally out of physical condition) but I'll start paying more attention now to get a good base-line.

He also discussed how extra stress in the rest of your life negatively impact recovery. Again, something I know but something I was just hot applying to myself even though I should as my life is relatively stressful. I'm a class sandwich-generation person spread too thin in many ways so life is always going full-speed ahead and I always feel behind. Life is a constant juggling act. I'm sure many of you can relate. Anyway....

*** One of his comments that struck a real chord with me was "It's not how much training you can do, it's how much training you can recover from." To this he advises either pulling back from training or improving the recovery or a bit of both.*** (starred and bolded just because I feel this is extremely important advice)

After taking about 8 days off, during which time I ate at around TDEE and just did a couple of slow, easy walks, I have my oomph back. Toward the end of the week, I finally started sleeping more than 2-3 hours at a time so that made a huge difference! In fact, have gotten 8-10 hours the last few nights. Yay!

He relates some extreme cases where people needed a month or even multiple months to fully recover so I can't say that I'm fully recovered yet but I feel awesome compared to how I felt last week so I'm ready to dip back into training with some adjustments. I'll self-monitor better for overtraining symptoms and adjust accordingly.

For improving recovery, he suggests improving sleep, diet, possible need for supplements, foam-rolling, more stretching, and 15 minutes of active recovery/cool-downs after a hard work-out.

I'm working on implementing all as all are good for you anyway, right? For me, I think insomnia will be a good first clue for me to pay attention to as I normally sleep well and wonder if my infrequent bouts of insomnia....because when I do get it it's chronic and bad for awhile until it goes away...so I'm wondering if it's coincided with other bouts of overtraining. Will track that closer. While my nutrition is relatively good, it could always be better. Especially my protein consumption as I have a hard time getting in my 1g/#.

He also recommends:
(1) One rest day/week (at most, light walking)
(2) Limiting the # of intensive workouts each week to 2-3 days
(3) Do lighter workouts in-between the intense days
(4) Cycling your training. For example: 2 light weeks, 6 heavy weeks, 1 peak week, 1 week recovery)
(5) If you're feeling fatigue and aren't sure if you should work out or rest, at least do your warm-up routine. If you just don't feel like you have oomph after your warm-up, either go home and take a rest or just do a very light workout like a walk.

He emphasized that just about everybody should plan a rest/recovery week every three months. That's part of #4 above and he seems to believe it's critical, even for the most fit among us.

If you're not familiar with McDonald's website, I suggest you take a visit there as it's always full of great information backed by research.

Anyway, what I'm going to do at this point is follow the training cycle and am now entering my two light weeks to ease back in and make some adjustments. I've switched to Stronglifts 5x5 but am going to limit it to twice a week for the time being so I can still get in a bit of HIIT as I really enjoy that. I'll also train my brain to let myself do less-intensive exercise in-between the lifting and HIIT days, like a long, slow jog or bike ride and not feel like I have to make every session some level of HIIT. I think that's my biggest area of over-doing it. So, basically, following a routine more like Heybales suggested. (Thanks!)

:drinker: Thanks again for your comments and suggestions. I think I was guilty of having the knowledge but being too stubborn to believe that it applied to myself.

:drinker: Thanks again for your comments and suggestions. I think I was guilty of having the knowledge but being too stubborn to believe that it applied to myself.

Great synopsis.

Every time I get sick after 7 or 8 weeks of constant exercise, and this is with proper rest days and easy cardio days mind you, I realize just how difficult it is to apply to self.

With diet as additional stress, I try to do 6 weeks breaks, because far too many times, that's when I got sick after if I didn't take it.

Always interesting to come back stronger, just gotta be careful with that too.

Thanks. Hoping the synopsis helps anyone else having problems with this. McDonald's series was a very interesting read. Of course, he always is.

I really think he's onto something with his cyclical training to have the light weeks after the rest break to ease back into hitting it heavy again. Definitely something I'm going to track and use from now on. I'm guessing that a light week every 6 weeks would make good sense, too.

I have learned that you really don't lose that much when you take a break. Last summer, I virtually quit doing my heavy lifting routine as I was training for a 200-mile weekend bike ride and the time in the saddle, and energy it required, just cut into my energy for lifting. So I didn't lift regularly for almost 3 months. When I came back, I had lost very little strength. For example, I had to lower my row weight by 5# and could only do 4 reps per set instead of the 8 I was doing at the time. But it only took about a week to get it back and to make steady gains from there. From my understanding, sometimes people come back from a short break where they've either maintained and can go right back where they started or even find a strength gain has happened just because they've become fully rested and the muscles have had a chance to fully heal.

I also didn't ride my bike for about 3 weeks after my long ride...was kinda burned out and needed a break from it...but, when I got back on, could crank out 50+ miles like nada. Probably could have still hit 100 miles if I pushed myself.

Of course, a longer lay-off will probably have a bigger impact. I think especially for some activities like running. At least for me as running is my weak area so I tend to degrade with that the fastest.

I'm rambling. It's all interesting and helpful to keep in mind, I think.

Please don't take potassium supplements, they're dangerous! Just increase your intake of food that contains potassium. Supplements can increase the levels very quickly causing cardiac arrhythmias and life threatening problems. WHen I give them to hospital patients it's only ever for a few days.

What she said ^^. Skip the supplements and eat foods rich in potassium. Sweet potatoes, potatoes and a variety of foods have higher amounts of potassium than bananas.

I noticed that my multi-vitamin already has potassium in it. While I don't eat much in the way of potatoes or bananas as they raise my blood sugar levels too much, I will try to choke down a sweet potato now and then. (Gack, really trying to become less of a picky eater but this might be a tough one for me.)

To all the funny pictures: Funny to read but not funny to live. Seriously, about 15 months of extreme soreness all the time has gutted me. I feel like I've been stoic long enough.