Giving up on moderation. (please read)

angiechimpanzee · February 2013

After fighting this battle with my weight for literal years, I honestly have gotten to the point where I'm fed up with trying to moderate foods that I always end up over eating. I posted a thread a few weeks ago about how sugary pastry-like foods such as cookies, pies, cake, snack cakes, etc, were always my ultimate vice when it came to weight loss & maintaining a healthy weight, & have always been the reason why I either fail to lose weight, or I gain it back once I've lost it. I said that I was going to try limiting my intake of them to 200 calories worth a day in order to practice "moderation" & to somehow re-wire my brain to realize that I don't *have* to overeat on those things, & that I could enjoy them in small portions.

Boy was that an epic fail. First of all, 200 calories worth of a food that I'm typically known to binge on felt like a crumb. You ever try giving an alcoholic just one glass of wine? How well does that ever work out? Once I'd eaten my 200 calorie serving I'd sit there & try to convince myself "Okay, Angie. That was enough. Now continue on with your day like nothing happened." But here's the thing - I couldn't. The voice screaming "MORE, MORE, MORE!" was always so ridiculously strong & unwavering. It was almost scary sometimes. It made me realize why I usually say "**** it, I'm eating the whole box" after the first bite without even trying to fight it. Because trying to fight it literally becomes an exhausting mental battle & focusing on anything else becomes difficult. It's like my mind can't rest until I've had more.

I know I probably sound crazy, and I'm not sure if any of you out there can relate to me on this, but I truly believe that all the years of binging & over eating on sweets has corrupted my brain somehow, in that once I get a taste, my will to stop whittles to nothing. I can honestly say that just not having any at all is MUCH easier than having one & then wanting a thousand more but attempting to fight that urge.

In the past I've thought it impossible to give up those foods for good. "How could I ever give up cookies & cake & pie forever? There will always be some event that has it. What if I go out to eat & they order some great dessert? etc. etc." But then I thought about it this way. People who go vegetarian or raw vegan or gluten-free have to say no to WAY more foods. They can't eat 9/10 of the stuff at the average grocery store or restaurant, & I'm worried about saying no to dessert? Plus, when I actually take the time to look back, 95% of the time I overate on dessert, it was when I was alone in my room with no one around. People rarely offer the stuff to me. I always choose to eat it myself & in private. And when I think about the benefits - having a body I'm actually proud of, fitting into my old clothes again, no longer losing weight only to gain it back after slipping back into the sugar trap, being able to enjoy the vast amount of healthy food available to me instead, no longer spending nights alone in my room ashamed & sick to my stomach after a binge session, avoiding the risk of diabetes that runs in my family - it seems worth it.

But I can't lie, I still have some doubts & worries about changing my life in such a drastic way. I think about occasions like Valentine's Day, Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving & birthdays, where there's bound to be sugar involved, & wonder how I could possibly evade the urge to have any, especially if I'm offered it or it's being given out. I'm scared of doing well for a period of time and then relapsing. I want to hear opinions/possible alternatives to my plan, or if any of you have faced similar struggles. It's a really big decision & I know in order for me to succeed in it, I have to decide 100% that it's what I want to do.

WBB55 · February 2013

You should be really proud of yourself for taking this journey. I really do feel like I can relate. Sugar cravings/binges CAN get better. They really can. Here's how I "rewired" my brain to stop craving sweet things. And honestly, I still crave "sweet" foods. But for me, an orange or some jello is ALL the "sweet" I need now. Drippingly sweet pastries simply don't appeal to me the way they used to.

For 4 weeks I gave up High Fructose Corn Syrup and Trans Fats. Just 4 weeks. That's the only thing I changed. Not just baked goods, EVERYTHING. If I went to grab a loaf of bread or salad dressing, I'd look on the label and if it said "High Fructose Corn Syrup" or "Hydrogenated" anything in the ingredients list, I put it back on the shelf and picked something else. I still ate at fast food, but I looked on the internet and made sure what I was ordering did not in any way contain those two ingredients. After four weeks, I think my brain and taste buds re-generated in some way to help me appreciate the natural sweetness in things like carrots, sweet potatoes, and oranges.

After 4 weeks, processed pastries and desserts and little debbies, etc., simply tasted TERRIBLE. They tasted like fake chemicals (which is, of course, what they are). I still like homemade cookies and homemade cakes and homemade jams. But honestly, even things that are high in natural sugars are simply not appealing to me any more. They're tasty in small, small quantities, but glazed donuts and tons of frosting? No thanks. I can FEEL my blood glucose skyrocketing just LOOKING at the stuff.

Good luck sweetie. You can do this.

tekwriter · February 2013

I love sweets but like you cannot keep them in the house. I had some of the french twists yesterday and ended up eatig the whole container. I could afford the calories but it was't what I wanted to do. I try to keep something sweet around the house that I can tolerate that doesn't cause a binge. Frozen strawberries, pudding, jello etc. I only indulge in the real sweet if I am at a restaurant and I can't bring that home.

MaraDiaz · February 2013

I completely relate. Your reasons are exactly the reasons I cut sugars and pastries and such out completely. I also found certain foods led me to binge that weren't supposed to be bad for me, like bread and even cashews so I cut out those, too. If I buy cashews it is in a small package and I know I'm going to eat them all so I don't buy them often.

As for worrying about slipping up on Halloween, well I did. In fact I didn't lose weight for most of November because I was back eating pastries and chocolate and other junk. But then in December I got it back together and I've had a great two months. You can, too. Don't be afraid to do this just because at some point you might give in.

Just because you give in once (or even for a week or a month) doesn't mean it's all over. Once you've given the foods that trigger your binges up once it's much easier to give those foods up again. Because you'll remember those days when you didn't crave at all and how good it felt and how much more energy you had to attend to other matters instead of trying to shut your pesky brain up.

Some people won't understand. That's okay, they're just lucky their brains aren't wired the same. Just let them eat whatever and do what works for you.

ricklperry · February 2013

I think your comparison to an alcoholic and one drink is good. After I quit drinking my wife decided to work on her weight. There were innumerable comparisons in how we related to our challenges. I also agree with the comments about high fructose corn syrup. My sweet cravings went way down after eliminating it from my diet.

skinnyinnotime · February 2013

I used to eat chocolate every single day, like 2-3 bars. I found it very hard to not eat it when I started my healthier lifestyle.

Now, I can't tell you when it happened or exactly why but I rarely crave chocolate now and when I have some it actually makes me feel sick and the taste is so ridiculously sweet. I've just had 2 pieces of toblerone and feel sick.

When I look at chocolate, cakes etc I mainly just see sugar and something that has no good nutritional value for my body and I don't see the point in eating it.

I don't know if any of that helps but at least you can see that someone that used to be like you has changed and it can happen.

ThriftyChica12 · February 2013

for me, the greatest success i've had ALWAYS comes when abstaining COMPLETELY from sugar and trigger foods.

having NONE is easy for me.
having only ONE is impossible.

like an alcoholic, certain foods i cannot handle at all, and there is no such thing as moderation with these for me.
i am much happier when i eliminate them completely.

Aeriel · February 2013

Moderation means different things to different people. Some can do a small portion once a day and ignore the rest that is sitting there until the next day. Others can try a once a week or once a month approach, but have to go out to get that single serving or risk a binge. Some people have to cut the food out completely. Each of us is different. You will find what works for you and incorporate it into your new lifestyle. Good luck!

ruthiejewell · February 2013

Very interesting post and replies so far. My situation is the same and I'm convinced, for me, that very low carb is the answer .. .. and I really enjoy what I'm eating! Many people say you should never remove, but just limit foods you crave but that worked for me in exactly the same way it did for you .. .. binge disaster!! I still fall occassionally because I haven't learned to deal with the special occassions. I keep reading the experiences of 2 very successful MFP friends (51 pounds and 81 pounds lost in a year!, one low cal, one low carb) who have so impressed me to try to learn from them. I keep telling myself I can go out to eat and choose healthy options but my little devil says "no, it's treat time and costly so choose what you really fancy"! It's my birthday tomorrow and I already know what I'm having from the online menu and it's not the healthy or lowest carb option! But I feel a little heroic as I know I will not have a starter or dessert! A learning process, falling off sometimes, getting back on, we'll get there, good luck!

dsteach4064 · February 2013

I'm reading a great book, by Dr. Robert Lustig . He talks about our sugar addiction . I can totally relate..
As the child of an alcoholic, I see many comparisons.

ruthiejewell · February 2013

Oops, ignore, forgot to add quote and it won't simply let me delete this!

KenosFeoh · February 2013

A lot of us have to do something like that. Desserts don't call to me, but trail mix and roasted nuts do.

MaraDiaz · February 2013

I used to eat chocolate every single day, like 2-3 bars. I found it very hard to not eat it when I started my healthier lifestyle.

Now, I can't tell you when it happened or exactly why but I rarely crave chocolate now and when I have some it actually makes me feel sick and the taste is so ridiculously sweet. I've just had 2 pieces of toblerone and feel sick.

When I look at chocolate, cakes etc I mainly just see sugar and something that has no good nutritional value for my body and I don't see the point in eating it.

I don't know if any of that helps but at least you can see that someone that used to be like you has changed and it can happen.

That's a great point, too. Sweets (especially the really processed stuff like pastries) will taste different after a couple months of not having them. And not different in a good way, either! I compared eating a pastry for the first time again to licking the floor of a chemical factory. Not that I ever have, but if I did, bet that's what it would taste like.

One other thing that might help you, or it helps me, anyway, be sure to get enough healthy fats in your diet. Because low fat can produce some ridiculous cravings. Getting enough protein is important, too. But I find skipping out on enough fat to be what really triggers me.

ruthiejewell · February 2013

for me, the greatest success i've had ALWAYS comes when abstaining COMPLETELY from sugar and trigger foods.

having NONE is easy for me.
having only ONE is impossible.

like an alcoholic, certain foods i cannot handle at all, and there is no such thing as moderation with these for me.
i am much happier when i eliminate them completely.

Exactly!

GG70 · February 2013

LOVE and RESPECT your honesty and and how self-aware you are. I identify so well.. I am on the path to control as well. If I do eat sweets now, I make it a healthier choice.. a good quality chocolate.. and make sure I cap it off with tea and lots of water to "close out" that session. I tell myself that I HAVE to have chocolate every day.. so I take some raw almonds ( about 10) and .25 serving of 70% dark chocolate.. I break up the chocolate and switch off eating one little piece after the other. I feel like I am training my palate to appreciate a better quality and quantity of sweets. I believe it can be done. If you need support, please add me. I know the struggle.

GG70 · February 2013

A lot of us have to do something like that. Desserts don't call to me, but trail mix and roasted nuts do.

RAW NUTS is the way to go.. roasted nuts are not a healthy food.

LavenderBouquet · February 2013

I have gone through very similar situations! I had found that purchasing only small quantities of my favourite junky foods would physically limit the amount I had available to devour, but then I just craved more like crazy! I found this only ever really occurred with foods high in sugar, salt, and/or carbohydrates. I eliminated all of it, and in the 3 weeks since my cravings have dropped significantly, I still get them once in a while, but they are manageable as opposed to mind encompassing. So, I can totally relate! Add me as a friend if you'd like! :flowerforyou:

ruthiejewell · February 2013

I'm reading a great book, by Dr. Robert Lustig . He talks about our sugar addiction . I can totally relate..
As the child of an alcoholic, I see many comparisons.

Yes I see absolute comparisons to alcoholism too; I'm convinced this is the key to a lot of obesity problems. I've always been amazed at people who can eat just half a packet of crisps/chips or half a choc bar and not be obsessed that it's there waiting to be finished!

animelose2012 · February 2013

i take what i love (pretzel mm's) and make little bags out of big bags. it helps me with control also putting things in the frezzer helps to it makes me have to work more to bite into stuff. also there are many swaps you can do like for icecream use frozen yougart. for candy try peanut brittle or twillzers. also try apple sauce for oil and things like that. but sometimes it is just the out of sight out of mind thing

maryannelk · February 2013

Agree with much of the above. I don't keep anything grain-based in the house except for carb-balance tortillas for my daily tuna wrap. I've been eating high protein/lower carb and it really helps with the cravings. It is easier to avoid trigger foods at home.

tuesdaypm · February 2013

If you waste 200 cal on junk everyday thats more than 10% of my calories each day. Why not fill it with something that will actually be good for you. You can just say no that stuff by not buying it. If its not i your home there will be far less temptation. Once you have home many days without junk you will see that you don't miss it that much. In the instances where you are offered it usually it is a pice of cake or a brownie in front of others and you if you are like me are much more likely to stop at one or 2 if you think others are seeing what you are eating. Do it and you will feel better also fruit will taste like a treat soon if you are not over sweetening your diet.

LavenderBouquet · February 2013

I'm reading a great book, by Dr. Robert Lustig . He talks about our sugar addiction . I can totally relate..
As the child of an alcoholic, I see many comparisons.

Yes I see absolute comparisons to alcoholism too; I'm convinced this is the key to a lot of obesity problems. I've always been amazed at people who can eat just half a packet of crisps/chips or half a choc bar and not be obsessed that it's there waiting to be finished!

I knew it was getting out of hand when I bought a bag of my favourite chips and left them at home when I went on a holiday. I know I thought of them and how I was going to eat them when I got home at least a dozen times. That is not health behaviour :noway:

Hopeful_ · February 2013

I relate to you so much, and for me, I think this is the only method to help myself beat the binges too. It's so refreshing to see someone else's perspective, and that I'm not the only one who feels this way after a binge, or days of them! I promised myself I'd start fresh today, then ruined my goals by breakfast, and that just makes me give up on myself for the rest of the day. It's a self-inflicted cycle and it's not worth the shame, embarrassment, and low self esteem any more. Good luck to you if you decide this is how you'll overcome your binges! You can do it!

Poetic_Photography · February 2013

I don't know if you know of or perhaps follow the trainer Chris Powell from the show "Extreme Makeover Weightloss Edition", but there is actually a scientific reason for your love of sugar... He says that for some people, there are trigger foods that ~ once consumed ~ are as addictive to that person as would be drugs or alcohol to addicts!! For substance abuse addicts, when they're ready to change, they can keep away from drugs/alcohol... but for people with food triggers it is a million times harder because, as you said, it's everywhere & readily available!

I encourage you to stop beating yourself up; it's chemistry, not your willpower, that's making this difficult for you...

I've gone through the same thing, and I literally switched to a whole foods/vegetarian based diet to see if I could rewire how my body feels... Guess what? For the first time in my life, I'm actually full!!! I feel healthier than I have in over a decade, and I'm not even tempted by sweets when they're around at work (because I'm too full from the brown rice! lol)

jzammetti · February 2013

I also agree that you need to break your body's addiction to sugary stuff if you are having that much trouble with it. When I first started 2 years ago I did the same thing - no sweet stuff for almost an entire year. Now I am back to moderation and it is NOTHING like it would have been from the beginning. Cold turkey was the way to go for me too but now I can manage all foods, and I bet you will be able to sometime in your future as well. Best of luck to you!!

genesis8671 · February 2013

I completely understand. I no longer keep sweets in the house. I've been doing green smoothies for the past month and it's really helped me manage the sweet craving. At work, there are always goodies in the break room; I've trained myself to not go and look at them. I am getting used to only having the sweet that occurs naturally (fruits) as my sweet. Last week, I did have cake, but I dusted myself off and started again. Good luck to everyone who struggles with this.

katevarner · February 2013

I am an alcoholic, and I can't have just one drink. I am also really sensitive to carbs, and had to give up real Cokes as a result. Not just cut back but give them up. And they were my alcohol replacement. Just keep the stuff out of your house. It's really the only way.

ruthiejewell · February 2013

I am an alcoholic, and I can't have just one drink. I am also really sensitive to carbs, and had to give up real Cokes as a result. Not just cut back but give them up. And they were my alcohol replacement. Just keep the stuff out of your house. It's really the only way.

Thankyou for sharing that. It led me to look at your profile and I have to ask is that an old pic or do you really look that young and that good??!! Well done on all your success, not easy i'm sure!

strflt · February 2013

Breaking from sugar is hard. Very, very hard. I hope breaking from sugar works for you, but be careful in your early stages. Here's my own story of warning, in case it helps:

I was 160 a year ago, and had been so, reliably and steadily, for six or seven years, but wanted to lose weight for a wedding in June of last year. It was my first time doing a serious diet, so I wanted to do things correctly and carefully. I counted calories, avoided sugar, portioned everything carefully, and paid attention to getting the vitamins I needed through food (and a multi-vitamin, I admit. I could never get everything perfect.) I wanted to get down to 140, (though even 150 would have been nice.)

I got down to around 152-ish before I fell off the wagon, hard. I impulsively bought a piece of cake, meant to be a once in a while splurge, and just never got back on. I binged on everything I had denied myself for two months. By June, I barely fit into the party dress I had bought at my lowest point. From there I kept going. By September I weighed 170. When I started this latest round of responsible dieting, I weighed 171.

I've lost 5 lbs since starting up again, just over a month ago, and I've had some bad weekends, too. But for me, I've found that I have to allow myself these treats. I can't do without them just yet. My control over my diet is too tenuous for me to deny myself foods that I really, really love. I will binge without them and, like last time, probably just add on. So I keep things out of my house, and only buy something small if I'm with a friend, and split it if possible. That way I don't have more than a serving (or at least a sitting) and can get back on the wagon.

If I have a weak moment and bring something into the house, I'll eat a serving, maybe two... and promptly feel guilty. I'll throw out the bag. Immediately. It's a waste of money, I know... and I'll be the first to admit I'm fairly cheap... but it's either that or sabotage myself. I'll gladly give up two to five dollars to save my efforts if I have to. But again, that's what works for me. If I keep it, I'll go through a box in a day or two, of whatever it is. (Oreos, cheez-its, fill-in-vice-of-choice)

Good luck in giving up moderation! I hope to be there someday, and with all the other people who have posted in reply saying that they don't crave such things anymore. Maybe a year I can try that.

XXXMinnieXXX · February 2013

You sound like you have a binge eating disorder. This is something I used to struggle with. There are reasons why you do these things, avoiding stuff for now will help but you need to deal with the cause.

Go talk to your doctor about counselling sessions and cognitive behaviour therapy. The CBT helps you deal with thought patterns differently when you have a trigger to binge.

I found there was a lot more to why I binged than I thought. Dealing with it helped tremendously and over time it got better and better now I can have treats in the house, have one portion and leave it alone no problem.

Early days if I had a treat in that was bought for me, I'd immediately portion it into bags. Some how for my brain it worked that I had my one portion and that was it until tomorrow.

Now and Then I still buy a food in that calls my name from the cupboard (Nutella was the last one). As bad as it sounds I just grew itnin the bin. Once you've done it your glad.

Get yourself some therapy and know that over time you should be able to have these things in moderation. Just not right now. I was depressed also and got on a good antidepressant.

Few days ago I had a pig out. Logged it and I was 152 cals over. Not the end of the world. Giving myself a good calorie allowance helps... So I can eat plenty and not feel deprived. At one time my binges were easily. 2-3000 calories!

Going low carb (120g per day). Not crazy low, but a lot lower than I though helped my craving tremendously. For me having lots of carbs, leads to wanting lots more. Found 120g was enough to not feel deprived, but not so much that I constantly craved them. Now if I have a high carb day, I find I just want more! Maybe this is a tool that can help you. It's also been a great weight loss tool.

When I find I'm getting overly stressed and I'm wanting to eat more than I should again, I sit down and write down what it is that is bothering me. I then make sure I work on one thing at a time! Need to be proactive.

Hope that info helps!

Zara x

RobinC37 · February 2013

I TOTALLY feel your pain. When I started trying to lose weight waaaay before MFP, I would go get a bag of fat free gummies or a 100g chocolate bar, saying I would only have 5 gummies, or 1 square of chocolate. I would always cave and eat the whole thing that night. I gave up eating sugary treats completely for months. Where I would normally have budgeted calories for chocolate, I tried to enjoy a rich and satisfying savory treat, like a fresh bakery croissant (200 cals) or a rich cappuccino with maybe one sugar packet.

Now, 3 years later, I can actually only eat 1-2 oreos before I feel sick from the sweetness. Frosting disgusts me and I have to scrape it off cake now. Sugar is an addiction that has to be kicked. BTW, I think fake sweetener counts too. It wasn't until I quit diet coke that sweet treats started to overwhelm my taste buds.

Giving up on moderation. (please read)

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