Agree to disagree! Can we find common ground?

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2

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  • diodelcibo
    diodelcibo Posts: 2,564 Member
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    no

    Please?
  • Jerrypeoples
    Jerrypeoples Posts: 1,541 Member
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    there is absolutely no way i will never enjoy a nice medium rare steak or lemon chicken.

    i have seen all the pictures videos of how cows are raised and slaughted, as well as chickens and other animals to be used to produce food for humans. I say dont let them die in vein let them die in a hearty steak sauce or honey mustard
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
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    I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.

    +1

    OP are you really looking for common ground? Because it kinda sounds like you're just looking for yet another debate.

    We can't even get everyone to agree that calorie deficit causes weight loss, are you really expecting everyone to agree with all the rules you listed?

    +2

    The OP's post looks more like a typical diatribe rather than the beginning of a reasonable discussion. Seems like the type for which "reasonable" means "you agree with me." Have fun with that.

    No. Reasonable means you agree with ME. Geeze.
  • allisonlane61
    allisonlane61 Posts: 187 Member
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    there is absolutely no way i will never enjoy a nice medium rare steak or lemon chicken.

    i have seen all the pictures videos of how cows are raised and slaughted, ...

    Don't worry about the steak. If we're anything like Western Europe, it's horse meat anyway ;)
  • Crankstr
    Crankstr Posts: 3,958 Member
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    no

    Please?

    mayhaps.
  • Admiral_Derp
    Admiral_Derp Posts: 866 Member
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    I don't think many of you will disagree (but I'm sure some of you will find a way) with the following :

    - pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)
    - refined sugar is a major health problem, and consuming less of it (or none of it) is best for society as a whole
    - adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
    - if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.

    1. Of course some will find a way to disagree. Everyone is not you. Welcome to the internet.
    2. Pretty much all food, unless consumed raw, is processed.
    3. Optimal is a highly relative term depending on the goals of the individual.
    4. Organic is magic. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/organic.html It's a pretty well documented article, and I'm sure that, like everything there are flaws in it, however an in-depth search will reveal the same for presented evidence on both sides. Until nutritional science can publish a definitive answer, you have to be careful presenting either position as an absolute guideline for "optimal" health. This is an extension of the fact that people will always find a reason to disagree, and therefore should quit trying to lump groups into nice, neat little categories.

    ***For the record, because I know that some won't get it, the whole "Organic is magic." thing was typed with tongue firmly in cheek.

    That said, less refined sugar, and more fruits and vegetables are a really good start, if for no other reason that vitamin/mineral content.
  • BeeElMarvin
    BeeElMarvin Posts: 2,086 Member
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    (I know the pigs in Ontario eat day old doughnuts from Tim Hortons to get "fattened" up), and that can't be good for us consuming their meat.


    mmmm... donut flavored bacon!

    Canada wins!
  • Lala20112
    Lala20112 Posts: 72 Member
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    I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.



    I agree..... :)
  • rjmudlax13
    rjmudlax13 Posts: 909 Member
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    Short answer: Do what works.


    Long debate inducing answer: A calorie deficit is always going to result in weight loss. Always! The problem is the "calories out" part of the equation is not fully understood. There are a million reasons that can skew this number. You could live in a colder climate so your body needs to use more energy to keep your body warm. You could have hormonal issues which can either increase or decrease your metabolism. Excessive stress can increase or decrease your metabolism. And on and on and on. BMR is just an average. Your metabolic rate is constantly changing from day to day. There is nothing static about it.

    And I believe (I know this will spark intense debate so sorry) that eating healthier food can increase your metabolic rate. I also believe that regular exercise can increase the overall rate. This is especially true if you increase muscle mass.

    I actually would like to see a study done where you have a bunch of identical twin sets eat the same amount of calories (that results in a calorie deficit on paper) but have one set eat Twinkies and the other set eat "clean" food. I'm sure both would lose weight, but it would be interesting to see the rate at which they lose it.

    Also, when I eat Twinkies I feel like do-do. When I eat healthy food I feel happier and more energetic. Maybe it's all in my mind, but it still works so I don't care.
  • BurtHuttz
    BurtHuttz Posts: 3,653 Member
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    No. I have no need to even agree that we disagree. I'll keep doing what works, and will ignore people who feel the need to create a formula for what works. It's the new alchemy and its tiresome.
  • akaMrsmojo
    akaMrsmojo Posts: 762 Member
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    I guarantee that 1800 is a deficit.


    1500 was a bigger deficit, and resulted in zero weight loss (for me).

    I agree, I do not do well on low calorie, I work out too much. It is not about a bigger deficit. It is about A deficit.
  • North44
    North44 Posts: 359 Member
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    Sometimes I think I'm blessed to live in a society with so many choices and sometimes I'm not so sure! :laugh:
  • Jerrypeoples
    Jerrypeoples Posts: 1,541 Member
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    there is absolutely no way i will never enjoy a nice medium rare steak or lemon chicken.

    i have seen all the pictures videos of how cows are raised and slaughted, ...

    Don't worry about the steak. If we're anything like Western Europe, it's horse meat anyway ;)

    and people question why wilbur had a smile on his face after mr ed went missing...
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
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    - pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)
    Only true to the extent that the 'processed' food is nutrient deficient and is consumed in quantities preventing sufficient nutrient intake.
    - refined sugar is a major health problem, and consuming less of it (or none of it) is best for society as a whole
    Prove it if the statement I made above is not violated.
    - adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
    While keeping within total calorie targets, I definitely agree.
    - if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.
    Prove it.
    I didn't add saturated fats b/c that kinda goes with processed foods in my mind.
    lolwut?
    So... how do mine stack up? What rules have you set for yourself to make healthier diet choices, and what bad ones are you still holding on to?
    Get sufficient nutrition for your needs, and moderate calorie intake
    Use a diet that is easiest for you to adhere to as long as the above statement is met
    Enjoy eating your food as long as the above statements are met
    Stop trying to prove your diet is best as long as the above statements are met.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    - pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)

    Pretty much ALL foods are processed.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    I think we can all agree that a calorie deficit will bring weight loss.

    Actually, I disagree! (Hurrah!) For ME it is the composition of those calories. Because I am hyperinsulinaemic, like many (most?) severely obese folk. When I was sugar and carb-addicted I believed that I would lose weight if I kept to 1500 calories, regardless of the composition. Not true! When those 1500 were comprised chocolate, cakes, Coke, pastries, biscuits etc I did not lose. I also struggled to keep to 1500 because the fluctuations in blood-glucose made me ravenous.

    Now sugar-free, I am averaging about 1800 calories a day and losing 2lb a week.

    But 1500 calories of sugar might work for others ...

    So when you were "ravenous" you ate more? AMIRITE?
  • breeshabebe
    breeshabebe Posts: 580
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    I would agree. When I read these blogs, it's crazy to me how quickly somethings get blown out of proportion. If I say that I like to eat "clean" and that I think it's a better way, people jump on the offense like I am somehow attacking them. And I'm like.. whaaa? I'm just telling you what I do... most of the time these threads are just asking for opinions... so heres mine. Tadah!

    I think that the key in not getting offended is to stop making yourself the victim. I see this done with all things. A while back, a friend of mine decided that she would start cloth diapering her kids. She didn't tell everyone else that they should do it.. she just said that she would do it- and did it. AND SOOO many people started bashing her because thats not how they do it- blah blah blah. Get off the defense, the world is bigger than yourself.
  • mangozulu
    mangozulu Posts: 90 Member
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    Nicely stated. I would have to agree with your basic tenets. Avoiding added sugar, avoiding processed foods and adopting a plant based diet are perfectly reasonable, evidence based, and beneficial behavior changes for all of us.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
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    Nicely stated. I would have to agree with your basic tenets. Avoiding added sugar, avoiding processed foods and adopting a plant based diet are perfectly reasonable, evidence based, and beneficial behavior changes for all of us.

    Not so much. Getting adequate nutrition is supported by evidence.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
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    I eat what I want. I let others eat what they want. If someone asks my opinion, I will tell them what I have found works for me. I don't expect them to follow everything I do. They need to figure out what works for them.

    I have experimented with my diet over the years. I was almost a vegetarian for awhile (still ate chicken & dairy) and I had colds/flu constantly. When I added back in beef, I stopped getting sick so much. Other people may not experience this. Also, when I was eating a lot of fast food all my numbers (cholesterol, blood pressure etc) were healthy. I gained weight because I started eating more food overall, not because I was eating "bad" food. Those relationships are dangerous for your pant size. :laugh:

    My boyfriends parents are vegetarian. They eat meat (ribs) once a year for my BF's birthday. We bring the meat on Holidays while they make vegetarian dishes. It works. I have friends that are vegetarian and vegan. I really don't care as long as it works for them.They don't tell me what to eat, I don't tell them what to eat.

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