Lifting and Running
MrsSki
Posts: 196
I'm training for a half marathon. My schedule has me either lifting or doing cross training one day a week. I would prefer to lift, but since it's only one day a week, I'm not sure what I should do? Should I lift all muscle groups that day, a little bit of everything? Or should I concentrate on a few different areas and switch it up every week?
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Replies
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Quite frankly, you're not going to get great results from one day per week, no matter what you do. However, I would definitely say go full body at every session. Do as much of each compound lift as you possibly can within that day.0
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Quite frankly, you're not going to get great results from one day per week, no matter what you do. However, I would definitely say go full body at every session. Do as much of each compound lift as you possibly can within that day.
this0 -
Suggest keep it simple, lift full body heavy 1x weekly.
If you do cardio day before, make it shorter run up to 45 min max Aerobic HR zone, so you don't wear the muscles out too much and impact getting a good lifting session in.
If you do cardio day after (better to rest and only walk though), make it a run up to 60 min max Active Recovery HR zone (badly called fat-burning zone), so you don't add extra load to the muscles and impair or prevent getting a good recovery/repair from the lifting you did.
Your running is going to risk burning off muscle mass while eating at deficit.
The lifting heavy with all muscles is going to encourage keeping it.
If you have reasonable deficit of course, always possible to screw things up eating too little.
Possible schedule I found useful.
Sat - long run Aerobic zone
Sun - rest or swim
Mon - lifting
Tue - rest
Wed - 60 min run Tempo zone
Thu - 60 min run Recovery zone
Fri - cross-training but don't wear out legs for long run tomorrow.
So 2 sessions training body for endurance and fat-burning (Sat & Thu) requirement, one more race pace (Wed).0 -
This.Quite frankly, you're not going to get great results from one day per week, no matter what you do. However, I would definitely say go full body at every session. Do as much of each compound lift as you possibly can within that day.
Any reason why you're only lifting once a week? I understand that running takes precedence, as you are training for a half marathon, but you can still incorporate more lifting into your schedule to get the results you desire, while maintaining your endurance training for your marathon.0 -
I was actually just researching this myself. This article addresses it and I am on doing it like recommended on Tuesday and Thursday. As they point out this is my lowest mileage day.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/marathon-weight-training-stay-strong-during-marathon-training.html
Hope this helps you with your training for a half marathon. Prepping myself for a half marathon in October.0 -
This.Quite frankly, you're not going to get great results from one day per week, no matter what you do. However, I would definitely say go full body at every session. Do as much of each compound lift as you possibly can within that day.
Any reason why you're only lifting once a week? I understand that running takes precedence, as you are training for a half marathon, but you can still incorporate more lifting into your schedule to get the results you desire, while maintaining your endurance training for your marathon.
And This.
Working in quick sessions of lifting can prove beneficial. It takes strength as well as endurance to do any amount of distance running.0 -
I am also going to be doing a half marathon in September. I've been lifting heavy since September and have been seeing really great progress, so I'm going to try my best not to lose too much ground. I do run normally, but...honestly, the only reason I'm doing the half is because my step dad asked me to run it with him. So, I'm not too hooked on getting a super fantastic time.
I am planning on following a modified version of Hal Higdon's half marathon training plan. My planned schedule is going to look something like this:
Monday: lift & stretch
Tuesday: run
Wednesday: lift and short run/walk
Thursday: run
Friday: lift & stretch
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: long run
At this point, I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to be doing as far as my lifting goes. Right now, I am doing Stronglifts and I realize I most likely won't be able to continue with that as it calls for squatting 3 days per week. I'm thinking I'll do a push/pull/legs split with legs being on Friday. Who knows...I have a bit more time to think about it.
I'm fully planning on having to increase my cals too. i really, really don't want to lose any muscle strength or gains I've made.0 -
I'm training for a half marathon as well and I lift 3 days/week. Thus far, its only done positive things for my running.0
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I'm training for a half marathon as well and I lift 3 days/week. Thus far, its only done positive things for my running.
Are you doing a full body routine all three days you lift or a split? Do you find you have any crazy leg fatigue?0 -
I'm training for a half marathon as well and I lift 3 days/week. Thus far, its only done positive things for my running.
Are you doing a full body routine all three days you lift or a split? Do you find you have any crazy leg fatigue?
i just posted in the stronglifts women group about this. i do SL MWF and run 3xs a week. I'm definitely starting to have leg fatigue now that the weights are getting heavier. But i love running!!!! Something's gotta give though...0 -
i just posted in the stronglifts women group about this. i do SL MWF and run 3xs a week. I'm definitely starting to have leg fatigue now that the weights are getting heavier. But i love running!!!! Something's gotta give though...
What will likely give is improvement to either, at least not what could be had.
You'll either need to drop the legs from one lifting day, or just do 2 lifting days and 3 running days.
If Running the day before lifting up to 60 min max Aerobic HR zone, though that may even leave the legs tired for lifting the next day. If so, back it down. You can't get the benefit from the lifting if doing it on tired muscles.
Running the day after lifting up to 60 min max Active Recovery HR zone, doesn't add much of a load, should allow full repair from the lifting, and will train the fat-burning endurance system.
So that takes care of 2 runs at pace and training the endurance system.
1 other day of the long run at whatever pace is correct for that distance, probably top of Aerobic zone for training endurance system, with rest day after, and proceeded by rest day or a Recovery run. No need going into long run tired either.
Schedule used might be:
Sat long run
Sun rest
Mon aerobic run
Tue lift
Wed recovery run
Thu lift
Fri walk
Not really a way to do 3 x lifting unless lower body is dropped. You just can't get the rest and recovery, and that is the only place for improvement from a load put on the muscle, during that time.
And really, if you can't go into lifting session with rested muscles able to push hard, or don't allow full repair to them the day after, then your lifting session is really a waste of time, no need pretending you are getting out of it what you could, just skip it or do upper only.0 -
i just posted in the stronglifts women group about this. i do SL MWF and run 3xs a week. I'm definitely starting to have leg fatigue now that the weights are getting heavier. But i love running!!!! Something's gotta give though...
What will likely give is improvement to either, at least not what could be had.
You'll either need to drop the legs from one lifting day, or just do 2 lifting days and 3 running days.
If Running the day before lifting up to 60 min max Aerobic HR zone, though that may even leave the legs tired for lifting the next day. If so, back it down. You can't get the benefit from the lifting if doing it on tired muscles.
Running the day after lifting up to 60 min max Active Recovery HR zone, doesn't add much of a load, should allow full repair from the lifting, and will train the fat-burning endurance system.
So that takes care of 2 runs at pace and training the endurance system.
1 other day of the long run at whatever pace is correct for that distance, probably top of Aerobic zone for training endurance system, with rest day after, and proceeded by rest day or a Recovery run. No need going into long run tired either.
Schedule used might be:
Sat long run
Sun rest
Mon aerobic run
Tue lift
Wed recovery run
Thu lift
Fri walk
Not really a way to do 3 x lifting unless lower body is dropped. You just can't get the rest and recovery, and that is the only place for improvement from a load put on the muscle, during that time.
And really, if you can't go into lifting session with rested muscles able to push hard, or don't allow full repair to them the day after, then your lifting session is really a waste of time, no need pretending you are getting out of it what you could, just skip it or do upper only.
hmm...i really want to keep going with the SL program as designed. I'd rather (at this point at least) cut back running to 2 days. so, i'm thinking...
Sun - run
M - SL
T - rest
W - SL
H - run
F - SL
Sat - rest (maybe walk)
Does that look better?? I only run 4 miles and I'm not training for anything.0 -
hmm...i really want to keep going with the SL program as designed. I'd rather (at this point at least) cut back running to 2 days. so, i'm thinking...
Sun - run
M - SL
T - rest
W - SL
H - run
F - SL
Sat - rest (maybe walk)
Does that look better?? I only run 4 miles and I'm not training for anything.
Oh, in that case very easy, yes.
That Sun run up to top of Aerobic zone for 60 min, Thu run in Recovery zone for up to 60 min.0 -
i just posted in the stronglifts women group about this. i do SL MWF and run 3xs a week. I'm definitely starting to have leg fatigue now that the weights are getting heavier. But i love running!!!! Something's gotta give though...
What will likely give is improvement to either, at least not what could be had.
You'll either need to drop the legs from one lifting day, or just do 2 lifting days and 3 running days.
If Running the day before lifting up to 60 min max Aerobic HR zone, though that may even leave the legs tired for lifting the next day. If so, back it down. You can't get the benefit from the lifting if doing it on tired muscles.
Running the day after lifting up to 60 min max Active Recovery HR zone, doesn't add much of a load, should allow full repair from the lifting, and will train the fat-burning endurance system.
So that takes care of 2 runs at pace and training the endurance system.
1 other day of the long run at whatever pace is correct for that distance, probably top of Aerobic zone for training endurance system, with rest day after, and proceeded by rest day or a Recovery run. No need going into long run tired either.
Schedule used might be:
Sat long run
Sun rest
Mon aerobic run
Tue lift
Wed recovery run
Thu lift
Fri walk
Not really a way to do 3 x lifting unless lower body is dropped. You just can't get the rest and recovery, and that is the only place for improvement from a load put on the muscle, during that time.
And really, if you can't go into lifting session with rested muscles able to push hard, or don't allow full repair to them the day after, then your lifting session is really a waste of time, no need pretending you are getting out of it what you could, just skip it or do upper only.
Thanks for this info.
I'm still trying to figure out what my plan will be come June 1st. I know I most likely won't be able to proceed with SL and squat 3 times per week, increasing weight AND increase my distance weekly.
I'm fully OK with the idea of just maintaining and not increasing my lifting gains for the last 4-6 weeks of the half training and then go back to focusing on lifting after the race. I just really, really don't want o sacrifice a single ounce of muscle strength/gains that I've made up until then.0 -
Great chunk of information here. Thank you for starting this thread. I've been thinking on these lines myself. Ihave 13.65 miles under my belt but it took 09:09:12 and I'd like to get it done again quicker. I think I've learned a ton by reading these.0
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I've done a 1/2 and preparing for 3 this summer all the while lifting 3x/wk. I do an upper/lower split but cut my lower down to once a week. You can still lift 3 times a week and do your running, you have to find the right balance.0
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I was actually just researching this myself. This article addresses it and I am on doing it like recommended on Tuesday and Thursday. As they point out this is my lowest mileage day.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/marathon-weight-training-stay-strong-during-marathon-training.html
Hope this helps you with your training for a half marathon. Prepping myself for a half marathon in October.
Thanks for posting this link
I ran a marathon and got a pb in december and I'm training for Paris at the beginning of Apr.
Lifting has dramatically improved the way I feel when I run - specifically hills, and core strength when i tire.
All my workouts bar the long run are focussed on making my legs burn for increasing my lactate threshold.
The last week or so of my training (squeezed in around work hence why my rest days arent where they should be!) are as follows, for anyone whos interested;
Sun 3 feb - half marathon race (pb)
mon 4 feb - spin class + weights (weighted squats, jump squats, pistol squats, ab routine, some trx)
tues 5 feb - rest
wed 6 feb - hill training run 9x30sec efforts.
Sat 9 feb - 3 mile reps (total distance 5.55miles)
Mon 11 Feb - 15 mile run (this is a down week because of the races, I usually do 20!)
Tues 12 Feb - Spinning (pm - Crossfit beginners class)
Thurs 14 Feb - Spinning (pm beginners crossfit class)
Fri 15 feb - short interval session on bike + squats, deadlifts, bicep curls (nursing shoulder injury)
Tomorrow - Just spinning
Sunday - Half marathon race.
Then the running ramps up again.0 -
I've done a 1/2 and preparing for 3 this summer all the while lifting 3x/wk. I do an upper/lower split but cut my lower down to once a week. You can still lift 3 times a week and do your running, you have to find the right balance.
If you don't mind sharing...what does your schedule look like?0 -
Seems to me you are getting a lot of advice from lifters, not from runners. I'd be interested to hear what they have to say.
I lift sometimes, and I run. And, I find that the day after lifting I do not run very well. My legs are tired. I can do it. But I am slow.
If you are trying to ramp up your miles, and/or get faster, I think you are going to find that too much lifting is counterproductive. You need to have your legs under you to run and improve. Lifting is not going to do much for your lung and breathing capacity.
Also, I know it has become an article of faith around here that if you run only you are going to lose muscle mass. But, I think that strains credibility. I think running makes my legs pretty strong, and it is the movement and motions they were designed for.
Yes, running burns a lot of calories, and, yes, if I am operating on a calorie deficit I am going to lose mass somewhere. I suppose some of it will be muscle. It can be hard to keep up with all the calories you burn training for a long race.
But, they also say that if you are lifting, and not eating enough, you won't get any stronger.
Isn't that just the same as what can happen with the running? It is just harder to keep up with all the calories you need if you are running than if you are lifting, which burns less.
I kinda think we humans were built to run. Otherwise, back in the day, the lions would have got us and our dinner would have got away. We didn't have a big call for strength. You did not need to lift a huge boulder to clonk your prey; you could do it with a small one. But you did have to chase.0 -
I've done a 1/2 and preparing for 3 this summer all the while lifting 3x/wk. I do an upper/lower split but cut my lower down to once a week. You can still lift 3 times a week and do your running, you have to find the right balance.
If you don't mind sharing...what does your schedule look like?
Not at all, it's just rather crazy bc of work. I'm a nurse and 1 week I work 60-65 hrs/wk and the next I only have 1 shift so I've structured it based on that.
Heavy Work Week
Su-Upper/Short, easy recovery run
M-Work/Rest
T-Work/Short, easy run (If I'm off at a good time and have energy)
W-Legs/Speed work run 30-40 mins
R-Work/Rest
F-Long Run
S-Work/Easy 1-2 miler after work or walk
Easy Work Week
Su-Work/Rest
M-Upper
T-Mid range Run
W-Legs
R-Upper/Speed Work
F-Work/Rest
S-Long Run
My leg routines differ than most. During race prep I scale back to 60-70% of my max weight and do higher reps. I also add in some plyo work and do more supersets. In the off season I'm back to heavier weights with the 3-5 sets with low rep range. This is what works for me and I have lifted long enough to know how my body responds. The only time lifting has ever effected my running was when I was stupid and cut leg day out 8-10 weeks before my race. It actually hurt me in the long run. I also find those that don't lift when running seem to battle more injuries bc of weak glutes etc. One thing that greatly helps me recover after leg day/run is foam rolling and stretching; very key.0 -
Thanks for all of the really great advice. I'm running 4 times a week for the first 6 weeks, then it bumps up to 5 times a week for the last 14 weeks of my schedule. That's why I'm lifting just once a week, I need a rest day before my long run, and most of my time for hitting the gym is during my lunch at work. I have a two hour round trip commute, which pretty much kills my day.
I'm also interested in hearing more from runners who lift, than from lifters who run. I can't imagine lifting 3 times a week then going to run an 8 or 10 mile run on the weekend, I feel like that would be way too much strain on my body.0 -
Seems to me you are getting a lot of advice from lifters, not from runners. I'd be interested to hear what they have to say.
I lift sometimes, and I run. And, I find that the day after lifting I do not run very well. My legs are tired. I can do it. But I am slow.
If you are trying to ramp up your miles, and/or get faster, I think you are going to find that too much lifting is counterproductive. You need to have your legs under you to run and improve. Lifting is not going to do much for your lung and breathing capacity.
Also, I know it has become an article of faith around here that if you run only you are going to lose muscle mass. But, I think that strains credibility. I think running makes my legs pretty strong, and it is the movement and motions they were designed for.
Yes, running burns a lot of calories, and, yes, if I am operating on a calorie deficit I am going to lose mass somewhere. I suppose some of it will be muscle. It can be hard to keep up with all the calories you burn training for a long race.
But, they also say that if you are lifting, and not eating enough, you won't get any stronger.
Isn't that just the same as what can happen with the running? It is just harder to keep up with all the calories you need if you are running than if you are lifting, which burns less.
I kinda think we humans were built to run. Otherwise, back in the day, the lions would have got us and our dinner would have got away. We didn't have a big call for strength. You did not need to lift a huge boulder to clonk your prey; you could do it with a small one. But you did have to chase.
I don't have any personal experience doing both at high levels at the same time. But...for me, I do know that when I started running last April, and was ONLY running, 3 days per week....I lost weight. But...I also lost about 3lbs in LBM. Not good. Granted, I wasn't paying that much attention to a higher protein macro at the time.
I'm fully expecting to have to lift legs once per week, because I do agree...that the muscles will get stronger from the running. It will just be a different type of muscle fiber than with the lifting...and that's ok, I guess. As of right now, I feel I've made some really great strength gains (especially with my legs) and I really don't want to lose too much of that.0 -
Re; a previous post in this thread.
I see that bodybuilding.com advises weight lifting while training for a marathon. But I have never heard of a marathon trainer or running coach recommending weight training during the preparation for a marathon or other long race.
I think sometimes they recommend a "cross-training day" once a week or so. But that is mostly to give yourself a break from the constant pounding of running, and so you don't completely neglect other parts of your body.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
As far as I know, most marathon and half-marathon training programs are pretty rigid -- and they do not leave many days for weight lifting in the gym.0 -
I've done a 1/2 and preparing for 3 this summer all the while lifting 3x/wk. I do an upper/lower split but cut my lower down to once a week. You can still lift 3 times a week and do your running, you have to find the right balance.
If you don't mind sharing...what does your schedule look like?
Not at all, it's just rather crazy bc of work. I'm a nurse and 1 week I work 60-65 hrs/wk and the next I only have 1 shift so I've structured it based on that.
Heavy Work Week
Su-Upper/Short, easy recovery run
M-Work/Rest
T-Work/Short, easy run (If I'm off at a good time and have energy)
W-Legs/Speed work run 30-40 mins
R-Work/Rest
F-Long Run
S-Work/Easy 1-2 miler after work or walk
Easy Work Week
Su-Work/Rest
M-Upper
T-Mid range Run
W-Legs
R-Upper/Speed Work
F-Work/Rest
S-Long Run
My leg routines differ than most. During race prep I scale back to 60-70% of my max weight and do higher reps. I also add in some plyo work and do more supersets. In the off season I'm back to heavier weights with the 3-5 sets with low rep range. This is what works for me and I have lifted long enough to know how my body responds. The only time lifting has ever effected my running was when I was stupid and cut leg day out 8-10 weeks before my race. It actually hurt me in the long run. I also find those that don't lift when running seem to battle more injuries bc of weak glutes etc. One thing that greatly helps me recover after leg day/run is foam rolling and stretching; very key.
That is awesome and thank you so much! I think your "light work week" plan is about what I was thinking of doing. And, I was also thinking I'd have to lower the weights on my legs a bit and up the reps. So good to hear that worked for you!0 -
I guess I might be a bit of a different scenario in the fact that I don't need to feel like I'm competing at the half marathon. Yes....I would like to do well and get a decent time, but....I'm mostly running it because my stepdad asked me to as his motivation. I figure...why not. I like to run and plan on upping my running during the summer anyway. So, for me....if my finish time on the half isn't spectaular, but I still keep most of the strength I've worked so hard to acquire...that's fine by me!0
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Thanks for all of the really great advice. I'm running 4 times a week for the first 6 weeks, then it bumps up to 5 times a week for the last 14 weeks of my schedule. That's why I'm lifting just once a week, I need a rest day before my long run, and most of my time for hitting the gym is during my lunch at work. I have a two hour round trip commute, which pretty much kills my day.
I'm also interested in hearing more from runners who lift, than from lifters who run. I can't imagine lifting 3 times a week then going to run an 8 or 10 mile run on the weekend, I feel like that would be way too much strain on my body.
Well I guess we are different. I don't put myself in either of your categories. I run, I lift, that's it. Am I trying to qualify for Boston? No. I like being strong and being able to run 10 miles if I want with no issue. Running is fun for me, not a competition or a sport. The only one I try to beat is myself. I also know lifting has many benefits to running including maintaining LBM and every coach I've spoken to on the last year advises runners lift more. I also like the appearance of my body combined with lifting than say that of someone who only runs and has very little LBM. You can do both, it's not one or the other and you don't know what your body is capable of unless you push it.0 -
I run 3x per week and cross train 6x per week. I train for races, but value my cross training and think it makes me a better, faster, less injured runner. I do hip strengthening work every day, upper body 2x per week, and core work 1x per week.0
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Thanks for all of the really great advice. I'm running 4 times a week for the first 6 weeks, then it bumps up to 5 times a week for the last 14 weeks of my schedule. That's why I'm lifting just once a week, I need a rest day before my long run, and most of my time for hitting the gym is during my lunch at work. I have a two hour round trip commute, which pretty much kills my day.
I'm also interested in hearing more from runners who lift, than from lifters who run. I can't imagine lifting 3 times a week then going to run an 8 or 10 mile run on the weekend, I feel like that would be way too much strain on my body.
5 x a week? That sounds like a competitive schedule. And if not competing, I'd suggest not necessary at all. It can be accomplished with 3 x a week easy. Shoot, in about 6 weeks if already running!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales?month=201210
You can fit lifting in for the upper body to help prevent muscle loss there.
Once you go past 60-75 min, even in the best fat-burning endurance bodies, you are going to start breaking down some muscle just to keep blood sugar levels up where the body wants them.
Day after a more gentle run, when you'll do a short one, do the upper lifting. Helps the shoulders make it for a long run too, so you don't lose form and get sloppy.0 -
I would not want to argue with heybales; he seems pretty experienced. But it seems to me three days a week would not be enough to get ready to run 13 miles in a race -- when people generally end up running a bit faster than they expect in a race because of all the other runners around them.
Also, my wife is training for her second marathon in six months, and she regularly does runs that are longer than 60 minutes. Seems to me, if it were really true that you burn muscle every time you run longer than an hour, she would be losing weight and starting to look emaciated. I don't see that.
The Kenyans are the best runners in the world. They don't have fancy training and they don't lift weights. Heck, most of them don't have weights when they are starting out. They just run hills. Over and over again. And then they do it another time.
I think when they are training they often run twice a day -- and at least one of those runs is longer than an hour. Now, if they were burning up muscle every time they did that, wouldn't they eventually have diminishing returns on their training? If this loss meant anything, or was appreciable, wouldn't they eventually become too weak to run anymore?0 -
This is one of those things where it depends on your diet and recovery processes. Training 5 times a week for a 1/2 marathon implies that you will be a "energy dependent" athlete.
However, throwing one intense weight session into your rest day counter acts the whole point behind a rest day. Weight lifting does not deplete glycogen to the extent of long distance cardio, but it does force your muscles to scramble for nutrients...which takes away from all sorts of things you need to be able to perform maximally for your marathon training.
What I would recommend is train for your marathon, and do a 2 day split for lifting. on your more intense running days, do not train legs, and stay upper body. On the days where you felt like you held back a little, do some accessory leg work.
Given you are not going to be going crazy eating 7000 calories a day, your options are limited!0
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