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Deep Squats "*kitten* to the grass"

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Replies

  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
    One problem with *kitten* to grass squats is "butt wink". For a lot of us, in order to go that low, your butt rounds under, and your lower back rounds up. This is bad. I only go as deep as I can before butt wink starts, which is fine as long as you go just past parallel.

    But yes, squat form is VERY hard to master. You need to go really slow on the progression and be very careful that your form doesn't falter in the name of higher weights.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    Post video of your form, I'm guessing it must have been way off to hurt your knees. My knees have dramatically improved since I started squatting.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    I have not had that experience because I never do deep squats. But the reason I don't do them is fear of what you describe. The higher squats do the job just fine, so I see no reason to risk it.
  • elprincipito
    elprincipito Posts: 1,200 Member
    i stopped doing atg and just parallel after trainer said it's better for your knees to just go parallel...i donno though...
  • NobodyInParticular
    NobodyInParticular Posts: 352 Member
    Your knees should never go more forward than your toes. If that happens, that's when pain follows.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    hmm perhaps i was doing something wrong then. :sad:

    it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes. I'm fine doing ATG squats, only ever do them that way (just going to parallel doesn't feel like i'm doing them properly.... but of course every exercise has its uses, even partial squats) but when I tried pistol squats, they hurt my knees, because in order to maintain my balance, my knees ended up going further forward than my toes. So I haven't done them again. I'll have to see if i can figure out another way to do them.

    that could be the problem.

    I also find that I need to have quite a wide stance in order to get down low enough without either overbalancing (not fun with a heavy barbell on your shoulders LOL) or having my knees go in front of my toes or my back not staying straight. the way I do squats, my feet are a bit wider than shoulder width apart, and I have wide shoulders.
  • AmazonRDH
    AmazonRDH Posts: 203 Member
    i don't know anything about the squats, they sound painful, LOL, but i get patellar tendonitis when i run, the glucosamine has actually helped, i also brace that knee and wear a knee strap on it. the strap doesnt seem to do much but the brace sure does!
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    hmm perhaps i was doing something wrong then. :sad:

    i'm glad we agree. check your form before trying again. running hurts my knees. basketball and football hurt my knees. long airplane rides hurt my knees.

    squats have never hurt my knees
  • LishieFruit89
    LishieFruit89 Posts: 1,956 Member
    I agree. Squats have actually HELPED my knee problems.

    And... it's glucosamine, silly girl.

    :laugh:

    QFT
  • MercenaryNoetic26
    MercenaryNoetic26 Posts: 2,747 Member
    Your form may have been off. While they look straightforward, Squats are a rather technical exercise and a fair amount of learning and practice must be established before going heavy.

    My sentiments almost exactly.

    It's very technical, but once mastered, it's like driving. You don't think about all the technical **** you're doing.

    I found stretching in between sets to be very helpful to me in building strength and overall flexibility in my bottom half. The more flexible you become, the better you can drop that @ss.
  • hemlock2010
    hemlock2010 Posts: 422 Member
    bump
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes.

    No, it's not. It depends on anatomy. Some people's knees will go past their toes. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this.
  • aweigh2go
    aweigh2go Posts: 164 Member
    I used to feel it before someone told me to push with my heels. They also told me to stop wearing running shoes and squat in my socks, a pair of Chuck Taylors or Five Fingers. No knee pain since then!

    I'm reading Starting Strength too and it is a lot of info but very valuable! Interesting enough, chapter two is on Squats!
  • nturner612
    nturner612 Posts: 710 Member
    hmm thanks for your input guys! :) i guess my form was wrong. i will see if i can get one othe trainers at the y to check out my squat form. :flowerforyou:
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
    I'm suspecting a muscle imbalance my be an issue. If you have stronger quads than hamstrings it could cause problems. I would try hamstring strengthening accessory lifts, or the other way around if you have strong hamstrings and weak quads.

    I wouldn't worry too much about knee tracking over the toes, I think that thought is geared more for lunges.

    front-high-low-bar-squat1.jpg

    wow, I never knew this. I always thought your menisci would be harmed by not slipping back in to place quickly enough when standing from the squat if your knees were not tracking over your toes. Interesting. :)
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes.

    No, it's not. It depends on anatomy. Some people's knees will go past their toes. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this.

    Bah, you beat me to it.

    This is yet another one of those 'squatting myths' that refuse to die. I have actually found that foot angle can play a bigger role in knee pain that anything else, and everyone is different. Some people's feet need to be pointed more forward, some more outward, some right in line with the bend of the knee.

    As it's been stated, the squat, especially when performed deep, is easily the most complex fundamental lift, and the easiest to do in a manner that will hurt like hell. You may have to play with it quite a bit to find your sweet spots.
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
    it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes.

    No, it's not. It depends on anatomy. Some people's knees will go past their toes. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this.

    Bah, you beat me to it.

    This is yet another one of those 'squatting myths' that refuse to die. I have actually found that foot angle can play a bigger role in knee pain that anything else, and everyone is different. Some people's feet need to be pointed more forward, some more outward, some right in line with the bend of the knee.

    As it's been stated, the squat, especially when performed deep, is easily the most complex fundamental lift, and the easiest to do in a manner that will hurt like hell. You may have to play with it quite a bit to find your sweet spots.

    Why? Just trying to understand. Not enough flexibilty or mobility to sit in a squat without lifting the heels? Flexion and extension at the ankle takes place at the talocrural joint, and as in all joints those movements are limited by muscular tension,ligaments and bone.Isn't it the tension in the soleus and gastrocnemius muscles on the back of the leg that prevents someone from pressing the heels to the ground in flexion? I don't know, I've just always thought the "fix" for that incapacity is just sitting in a squat with your your heels touching the ground in a wide stance and toes angled out till you can bring your feet close together and parallel.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    I said role in knee pain. I didn't say anything about foot angle directly affecting depth. Turn your feet a few degrees in or out when squatting, and tell me you can't feel a pressure difference in your knees. Using myself as an example, I have weird *kitten* feet that point outward, even when walking. I tried doing that whole 'keep your feet in line with the direction your knees bend' thing when squatting, and all it did was make my knees hurt like hell. Once I let them point back outward in their naturally goofy positioning, all knee pain went away. Some people seem to have the opposite issue, where they need to point their feet more toward the front than to the sides.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    It may have been a form issue. Actually a lot of things I read that if you go past the 90 degree point you actually have LESS strain on the knees. I also have "bad knees" and squats have done tons for improving my health of them and buildup of accessory muscles surrounding them =)
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes.

    No, it's not. It depends on anatomy. Some people's knees will go past their toes. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this.

    it's what I've always read and been told pretty much everywhere (and I've read up on technique etc carefully, and from personal experience, i.e. my knees hurt if they go forward past my toes... if it's not true (for everyone) then that's news to me. Not arguing with you or saying you're wrong, just "I don't know why people keep perpetuating it" - because they believe it to be correct...? If it's wrong then there's a lot of books and websites and you tube videos that need to be corrected.

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