Intuitive Eating or Calorie Counting

I think this is actually a good question even though you may get some pretty strong rebuttals given that we're in a community of calorie counting.

First of all I've tried doing both counting and intuitive eating. I have my own theories about this but it's sort of far fetched and I try to not talk out of my *kitten*.

EDIT: Ok so I just got done with this messy turd of a reply that I just wrote and I actually do talk out of my *kitten* a bit. Suffice it to say that all of this is just purely speculation.

So having said that, here are some random things you might want to consider:

1) How has intuitive eating worked for most people so far? I'm going to go ahead and say that for the majority of overweight or obese individuals it doesn't work very well. That's not to say it can't work, I just don't think it's ideal. If people were able to regulate their bodyweight to healthy levels without needing to focus on energy balance then they probably wouldn't be here to begin with. (Note: Many people CAN do this, but most of them aren't here).

2) Hunger signaling is largely hormonal and I'm not aware of anything that suggests that energy intake is the main variable in shutting down hunger signals. Now I am not well researched in this area so if I'm wrong I'd love to see info on it, but my point is that I would think food volume would be a major factor in satiety/hunger blunting (taste probably is too as bland food tends to blunt hunger) -- but caloric intake probably doesn't rank very high on that list which means that depending on your "ability to listen to your intuition" you could easily end up shoveling 4k calories in your pie-hole. (Ironically it could be pie too).

Now you could try and accomplish this through food elimination and that's one mechanism that helps low carb diets work. Eliminate enough junk food and restrict yourself to limited carbs and mostly energy sparse ones like vegetables, and you end up with most of your food choices being potentially higher in satiety so by default, there's less risk of intuitively over-eating. Through limiting your food choices and basically eliminating (greatly reducing) an entire macronutrient, it's easier to intuitively create an energy deficit. I don't think this is ideal for other reasons (training output, adherence, etc), just for the record.

At any rate, I tried intuitive eating on my last bulk, which is just ending now. My goal was to gain .5 to 1lb/week without tracking intake and for the most part I was able to nail it pretty accurately without tracking anything. When I hit about 192-193, I stalled for a while and had to make a conscious effort to eat more food. I did this by eating more pop tarts (srs).

I would speculate that if I ballooned up to about 200-205, I could intuitively cut down again to about 192 or so, at which point I would expect to stall out again as this was roughly the weight at which my intuitive intake stuck me at when I hit caloric balance. This gets into set point theory and while it may not actually be a set point, it's the point at which my average intake brought me to without me making any efforts to control it.

Whether or not it would work the same way with everyone else, I can't really say. Assuming a little consistency in training and eating, I would expect that the average person would eat X amount and either lose until they stall out and then they either get stuck or possibly gain it back due to regulatory mechanisms (lose weight ---> get hungry---> eat more).

But I will say that for some people, calorie counting can be quite OCD. I go through issues with it myself.

i think it would take a very long time of getting to understand the makeup of each food we eat PLUS how your body reacts to certain foods before you can rely on your "intuition".

I think its a good idea and its how i eat to a certain extent but I would not stop monitoring consumption altogether.

and i would in no circumstances consider it if you are an "emotional" eater

I think they can be combined like in my case.

I count calories right now, but cant imagine myself doing it forever. I get OCD with it, and many times don't want to do it. With that said, I've been such a glutton especially on fast food for years while in college so I have no idea what a "reasonable amount of food is." What I currently do is count calories especially by planning my day ahead of time. And then pay attention to how much im eating, when, and how it makes me feel. I already know I'm set for the day so I can pay attention to just eating instead of logging as well.

Every week or so, I'll spend one day trying to eat what I feel like is a reasonable amount of food, then log it at night and see where I fall. At first my guesses were way off. But every week it gets better and now I can eat basically in my calorie range without logging first. I think it's a good plan to long term success.

I think that the success of intuitive eating is based on one's eating habits/tendancies. I could never do that because I have lousy eating habits. Not everyone does. If using a little common sense is enough for you to be able to control portions and have a reasonably balanced diet, then great, more power to you. But I could never do that, so I still count. I have stretches where my diet/eating is routine enough that I don't have to log, but that rarely lasts more than a week or so.

If left to my own devices, I'll eat 5000 cals day of mostly fat and carbs.

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

^ I agree with you although I'd call it a useful tool more than a crutch. But I suppose that depends on how far one takes it as it can be so OCD-like.

I really struggle with it.

I do think it's a very useful tool to give someone a better picture of portion and energy density/etc.

Some sort of combination of counting and not counting is probably where I'll end up.

I suspect if i answered this during cutting season i would have chosen the words 'useful tool' rather than 'crutch' :bigsmile:

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

^ I agree with you although I'd call it a useful tool more than a crutch. But I suppose that depends on how far one takes it as it can be so OCD-like.

I really struggle with it.

I do think it's a very useful tool to give someone a better picture of portion and energy density/etc.

Some sort of combination of counting and not counting is probably where I'll end up.

I suspect if i answered this during cutting season i would have chosen the words 'useful tool' rather than 'crutch' :bigsmile:

LOL

When my intuition says veggies, it's ok to run with it regardless of calories or macros. But when it says cookies, I'd better count calories (well most of them).

I counted cals until what was once difficult (knowing how many cals I was eating, and how they were distributed between macros), became a habit. I would say it took about a year. Once good habits were established, my hunger and satiety signals became much clearer. Now I eat more intuitively. I have gained back a few pounds, so I am trying to log to remind myself of what it took to lose weight. I was a little OCD with logging whiile I was learning, but now it just annoys me. I'd rather rely completely on intuition, but not sure if it's realistic. I may check out that book.

My intuition is a sadistic b*stard! It's always telling me "this, now this, some of that, a handful of this other thing." I think I'm giving my hunger what it wants, but it always wants something else.

I bought into the idea that my body would settle naturally at the weight it wanted to be and stopped monitoring myself at about 162 pounds. I would turn my back on the scales at the doctor's office because I just didn't want to know how much weight I was gaining, and I didn't want my thoughts to interfere with my body's natural wisdom. What a crock!

When I finally checked, I discovered to my horror that I was up to 207 pounds. I knew without a doubt that my weight would continue to climb as long as I allowed it. I don't care if my body wants to weigh 250+ pounds, I do not, and I am in charge, not my appetite!

So intuitive eating can bite me! It's monitoring and calorie counting all the way.

Um, hello, I'm hungry for EVERYTHING. ALL the TIME.

That's what got me in to this mess in the first place.

I've been doing this MFP thing for about 6 months. I have carefully logged pretty close to every single bite that has gone in to my mouth , and done a pretty decent job of eating healthy, well balanced foods.

I have made my self very much healthier- I am no longer pre-diabetic.

I understand the difference between needing to eat and wanting to eat.

Within about two hours of eating, I start feeling hungry again. Every meal. All day long. I wake up at night sometimes and feel hungry.

I eat three main meals and two snacks most days and try to ignore the hunger sensation as much as I can. Intellectually, I know I don't need to eat.

My body, on the other hand, has long been convinced a period of famine is just around the corner and I better stock up while I can.

Because I know I am much healthier now than when I started, and I know I am eating appropriately, I'll continue.

But seriously, my intuition tells me to EAT MORE NOW.

My intuition is a sadistic b*stard! It's always telling me "this, now this, some of that, a handful of this other thing." I think I'm giving my hunger what it wants, but it always wants something else.

....

So intuitive eating can bite me! It's monitoring and calorie counting all the way.

Is it even the least bit possible that it wasn't true hunger that was telling you this but instead a mental issue? When you were "listening to your hunger", were you truly letting yourself feel hunger and eating only when hungry and stopping when you were satisfied, or were you listening to the voice that was saying...hmm...I haven't eaten in an hour, a few chips sound good...hmmm....those chips didn't hold me over, maybe I'll have some of these cookies that look good...etc.?

I do think that most people can be successful eating intuitively and listening to their hunger/satisfaction signals, but they do have to be mature about it (which means eating for health as well as enjoyment) and do have to be honest with themselves about their reasons for eating. So many people say "I don't think when I'm eating XYZ, it just happens" when in reality there is usually some thought that accompanies us eating what we do. We just have to put the mental energy in to figuring it out.

Oh, I'm sure there are other mental issues involved. In the end, it doesn't matter. What is true FOR ME is that it's almost impossible to tell the difference between "I'm hungry" and "I want to eat something". Same hollow feeling in the gut, same stomach growling, same drive to find something and eat it now. So logical thinking has taken over to tell me whether or not it's meal time and what I need to eat (salad not cookies - close the cupboard!).

Well I know I didn't get fat because I was so intuitive about food. I got fat because I ate too much.

So I decided to actually do things differently to lose weight. I count calories. And it works.

Today's foods are engineered to make you feel not full and to want more of them. When Lay's potato chips say "You can't eat just one" they mean it because they've made them that way.

I do intuitive eating saturdays or sundays. I do not plan to count calories all my life.

Intuitive eating doesn't work for me because I intuitively want to stuff my face.

Exactly! None of us got overweight because we have a good, intuitive, healthy relationship with food!