When is 1200 calories appropriate? (hint: almost never)
Replies
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If anyone has tried the Net Diary Calorie Counter (I tried that one before MFP) it can even suggest 800-900 calories as your maximum. Not healthy, but after nearly starving myself and being completely miserable I switched to MFP and so 1200 feels like a feast for me.
That being said, I'm not hungry on 1200, and when I feel its not enough, I'll readjust my calories. I'm tired of justifying my calorie intake.
If you don't do well on 1200 calories, don't eat 1200 calories, but don't dictate to other people.
It's really that simple.
who here on this thread demanded that you justify your calorie intake? i certainly didn't. nobody here is dictating anything to you. if you have taken the time to inform yourself and have chosen to be on a VLCD and risk whatever side effects may come your way, then good luck to you. i hope it works out for you.
1200 calories per day is not and will never be considered a VLCD. It is considered a BDD or LCD (Balanced daily diet or Low calorie diet) depending on which medical authority you look at. A VLCD is 800 calories or less (some research goes as low as 400 calories per day). A VLCD can be dangerous because it is extremely difficult to get balanced nutrition (except in certain cases of healthy vegan diets) most doctors (like those who provide lap band or other surgical weight loss methods) provide supplements which is why it should only be done under the authority and supervision of a medical professional.
How is 1200 calories a BDD?
For clarity neither is 2000 a BDD
it's not the number of calories that makes a balanced diet, it's the quality of calories.
It is possible to have inadequate nutrition on both numbers.
The 1200 calories was not plucked out of teh air by MFP - the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) recommends that calorie levels never drop below 1200 calories per day for women or 1800 calories per day for men. Even these calorie levels are quite low.
if you took the minimum recommended daily protein, carbs, fat, etc, it would add up to 1200 calories, but conversly eating 1200 doesn't automatically mean you reach the nutritional minimums.
MFP has to set a lower limit somewhere, but I'll bet if it was set at 800, we would be having the same discussion about 800 calories, because so many people believe they need to drop to the lowest they can to get any progress.
I'm not saying that by default 1200 calories is balanced, I'm just saying that 1200 calories is not a VLCD and in most research, when the subjects are put on a balanced diet of 1200 it is referred to as a BDD or LCD, never a VLCD. I don't think we have any difference of opinion.
I take issue when people suggest that 1200 calories is a VLCD when it clearly is not.
Of course, someone can eat 5000 calories and never hit their minimum daily requirements or eat less than 800 and hit their daily requirements. Some people eat healthy and some don't and number of calories doesn't really mean anything in that respect. (I agree with you, my only point was that 1200 calories is not a VLCD and not associated with all the risks which is what the OP has repeatedly suggested).
Again, I don't care what people eat or how they lose weight but I prefer information to be accurate.0 -
Yawns. *eye roll*
I'm always amazed at the amount of people so focused on what other people are doing and eating....
Less to do with focusing on what other people are doing and eating and more to do with having fallen into that trap ourselves, learning the science, climbing back out and back on track... and wanting to pass on that knowledge.
Don't like it? Then don't read it!
:drinker:0 -
I personally have been really happy with the members posting threads about why 1200 is often too low and to check out the TDEE-20% way. I don't feel they're judgmental, to me it's like they're saying "hey everyone, you can eat more and still lose weight! Isn't that great?!" And for me that led to a big fat YAY!
I started out attempting 1200 and working out vigorously. But I was always hungry, always thinking of food, always tired, and progressively felt weaker. I think I would've totally fallen off the bandwagon had I not discovered these forums. Once I figured out my TDEE and saw I could eat up to 2350 calories and still lose weight, I was frickin ecstatic. I've been consistently losing 1-2lbs per week, I can eat a lot of food, and I'm no longer cranky, tired, and weak.
If you're *truly* happy with 1200, clearly these threads aren't for you. But I was really unhappy and had no idea what I was doing and threads like this are what saved me from giving up entirely. So, thank you OP. For every one person doing 1200 that you piss off with posts like this, at least there's another that you helped.
And this is why these posts are needed.
Even if it helps one person a week, it has been worthwhile.0 -
I wish there was a new rule in the forums that said when you talk about the 1200 calories you are set at that you are eating NET OR GROSS. Without one of those words next to the 1200 then the conversation really can confuse new people. 1200 Gross means you are only eating 1200 calories a day period. 1200 NET means you are set at 1200, enter exercise and eat the calories back. Which means depending on what you burn in a day you are always eating more than 1200 calories. Regardless of what you personally want to do I don't care. Everyone is an individual and should make their own choices. I just always see new people getting confused because we are not explaining it very well. It sure would stop a lot of confusion if we just added those two little words behind the number.0
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I lost and gained the same 7lbs for 12 months eating 1200. Now, in a fraction of that time, I have lost 9lbs following the Roadmap (eating around 1600 calories a day plus exercise calories). And the weight is continuining to drop off. I'm not as grouchy, I drink alcohol, I have the energy to run and lift weights, my skin is better, I'm less hungry and far happier.
How do you lose and gain at the same calorie level?
1200 net or 1200 gross. I wish people would be specific.
1200 net0 -
Reposting the original post to remind anyone who has just joined in what this thread is about. Sensible advice for anyone who has tried 1200 calories a day and found it hasn't worked for them.
Each to their own, but for anyone (newcomers in particular) who is struggling on 1200, the advice from WinnerVictorious is really, really helpful. It's not a "you must do this" post but simply a signpost towards an easier way to lose weight.
Too bad the original post didn't have the "found it hasn't worked for them" caveat. It might have been more well received than just the blanket "do this or you're wrong" pronouncement.
Yes, and maybe less of this:
"1200 calories per day is almost certainly too low for almost everyone who does not have an unusual medical condition requiring a low calorie intake, in which case that person would have to be under medical supervision. "
"please do yourself a favor and find out the right calorie goal for yourself that allows you to change your body in a healthy and satisfying way. you don't need to starve yourself and you don't need to suffer the side effects of a 1200 calorie diet. "
Those were the parts of the OP that stuck in my craw a bit. 1200 calories a day does not require a medical condition nor does it require medical supervision (though there is nothing wrong with medical supervision in any diet or weight loss effort, I've been having my doctor check my blood work regularly). Treating it as if 1200 calories is some extreme form of dieting when it is closer to the standard is certainly somewhat insulting and inaccurate.0 -
I lost and gained the same 7lbs for 12 months eating 1200. Now, in a fraction of that time, I have lost 9lbs following the Roadmap (eating around 1600 calories a day plus exercise calories). And the weight is continuining to drop off. I'm not as grouchy, I drink alcohol, I have the energy to run and lift weights, my skin is better, I'm less hungry and far happier.
How do you lose and gain at the same calorie level?
1200 net or 1200 gross. I wish people would be specific.
1200 net
:flowerforyou: Awesome. Love knowing Net or Gross. It is two total different conversations.0 -
I personally have been really happy with the members posting threads about why 1200 is often too low and to check out the TDEE-20% way. I don't feel they're judgmental, to me it's like they're saying "hey everyone, you can eat more and still lose weight! Isn't that great?!" And for me that led to a big fat YAY!
I started out attempting 1200 and working out vigorously. But I was always hungry, always thinking of food, always tired, and progressively felt weaker. I think I would've totally fallen off the bandwagon had I not discovered these forums. Once I figured out my TDEE and saw I could eat up to 2350 calories and still lose weight, I was frickin ecstatic. I've been consistently losing 1-2lbs per week, I can eat a lot of food, and I'm no longer cranky, tired, and weak.
If you're *truly* happy with 1200, clearly these threads aren't for you. But I was really unhappy and had no idea what I was doing and threads like this are what saved me from giving up entirely. So, thank you OP. For every one person doing 1200 that you piss off with posts like this, at least there's another that you helped.
And this is why these posts are needed.
Even if it helps one person a week, it has been worthwhile.
:drinker:
And that is why it is worth taking all the flak off people who disagree!0 -
You are so right. I was sent to a dietician when I learned I was diabetic.... 1600 is where the doc started me. Every time I lost 10 lbs I went down a 100 calories. It worked for me. I was 198 I am now 151. 7 months..0
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I lost and gained the same 7lbs for 12 months eating 1200. Now, in a fraction of that time, I have lost 9lbs following the Roadmap (eating around 1600 calories a day plus exercise calories). And the weight is continuining to drop off. I'm not as grouchy, I drink alcohol, I have the energy to run and lift weights, my skin is better, I'm less hungry and far happier.
How do you lose and gain at the same calorie level?
1200 net or 1200 gross. I wish people would be specific.
1200 net
:flowerforyou: Awesome. Love knowing Net or Gross. It is two total different conversations.
Sorry I didn't say it in my earlier posts - will remember to next time as, as you have rightly said, it does make a difference
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We should see if they could somehow mark this thread to it stays at the top of the page at all times as this seems to come up a lot on posts from people new and old to the forums.0
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bump0
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I lost and gained the same 7lbs for 12 months eating 1200. Now, in a fraction of that time, I have lost 9lbs following the Roadmap (eating around 1600 calories a day plus exercise calories). And the weight is continuining to drop off. I'm not as grouchy, I drink alcohol, I have the energy to run and lift weights, my skin is better, I'm less hungry and far happier.
How do you lose and gain at the same calorie level?
1200 net or 1200 gross. I wish people would be specific.
1200 net
:flowerforyou: Awesome. Love knowing Net or Gross. It is two total different conversations.
Sorry I didn't say it in my earlier posts - will remember to next time as, as you have rightly said, it does make a difference
:happy:0 -
BUMP0
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I have actually been quite irritated with MFP about this. I understand that some people do only require 1200 calories, but no matter what I put in it says I only need 1200. I tried all of the activity levels just to see what it would say, 1200 calories across the board.
Last year I spent 6 months losing weight, only eating 1200 calories and exercising almost everyday, and plateaued for quite a bit of that time. At the start of my "weight loss" this time I am more educated, and decided to find other sources to calculate my TDEE and I input my daily calories into MFP every morning. I am calorie cycling at the moment, but even before starting that I manually input my calorie allowance.
While there are some people that do only need 1200 calories, a person who works out 5-7 days of the week needs more, and MFP should have the system set up to *correctly* reflect all the differences.
MFP does exactly this, when it adds your exercise calories to your daily goal. What did you think the extra calories were there for?0 -
I personally don't care what other people do to get to their fitness goals, but for me, 1200 calories works. Not only that, I have never found any scientific evidence that 1200 calories causes LBM loss or BMR decrease.
And, if I may add, most of the arguments I have seen here against a 1200 calorie diet don't even attempt to use science. They use very technical language and talk over people's heads which makes it sound science-Y but it's not scientific. As a skeptic, that always gives me the unsettling feeling that somebody is pitching woo to me.0 -
Saving this to read later :flowerforyou:0
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I wish there was a new rule in the forums that said when you talk about the 1200 calories you are set at that you are eating NET OR GROSS. Without one of those words next to the 1200 then the conversation really can confuse new people. 1200 Gross means you are only eating 1200 calories a day period. 1200 NET means you are set at 1200, enter exercise and eat the calories back. Which means depending on what you burn in a day you are always eating more than 1200 calories. Regardless of what you personally want to do I don't care. Everyone is an individual and should make their own choices. I just always see new people getting confused because we are not explaining it very well. It sure would stop a lot of confusion if we just added those two little words behind the number.
the elephant in the room is that many people who insist that 1200 calories is fine, really don't eat 1200. they eat less than that, but are too embarrassed to admit that they are only eating 800 or 900 calories per day. so even when we talk about 1200 calorie diets, we're talking about more than that... we're talking about all those eating less than that (over a prolonged period of time).
my goal was never to get into a debate with people who insist that 1200 is perfectly fine for them. it's their life, it's their choice. for some people, their physical size means that 1200 can be fine (if nutritionally sound). for some people who have yo-yo dieted, their lowered BMR means that 1200 can work as well. some people have medical conditions or medical emergencies and need to eat at 1200 or less. i think that's fine as well, so long as they are under medical supervision. there are probably a handful of other scenarios where 1200 works out to be the right daily goal.
but many people choose 1200 without understanding what their correct daily goal should be. i just wanted to pass along some helpful links to them so that they don't struggle on 1200 when they could thrive on 1400 or 1500.
a couple of people angry about previous threads in which i did not participate have posted their objections here. they are still fighting an argument they've had with other people. this was not the thread for that. i am not the one that they have an argument with. until today, i had no idea who these 4 or 5 people were. i wish them the best, but i wish they had exercised some self-restraint and not tried to hijack and derail this thread. i won't see anything they post from this point forward because all of them have earned a spot on my ignore list. i suggest they put me on ignore as well.0 -
I don't think people should eat for the sake of eating because they need to be under a certain amount of calories.
I make sure I get my nutrition with a nutritional formula I take in the morning , so i don't have to worry so much about getting enough calories to get that nutrition. If you're not hungry, your body doesn't need the fuel. Take the cues from your body, and eat when hungry, just make smart choices .0 -
Reposting the original post to remind anyone who has just joined in what this thread is about. Sensible advice for anyone who has tried 1200 calories a day and found it hasn't worked for them.
Each to their own, but for anyone (newcomers in particular) who is struggling on 1200, the advice from WinnerVictorious is really, really helpful. It's not a "you must do this" post but simply a signpost towards an easier way to lose weight.
Too bad the original post didn't have the "found it hasn't worked for them" caveat. It might have been more well received than just the blanket "do this or you're wrong" pronouncement.
there is no "do this or you're wrong" pronouncement in anything i've posted. i left plenty of wiggle room for those for whom 1200 is valid or for those who decide to adhere to 1200. words matter. i choose and parse my words carefully so that my meaning is clear. i'm dumbstruck at the notion than anyone can read what i've written, disregard what those words actually mean, and then invent a new meaning and attack me for something i didn't write.
:frown:
Intent is often hard to discern in the written word, I'll give you that. But with pronouncements like --
"you should almost certainly be eating MORE than 1200 calories per day"
"too low for almost everyone who does not have an unusual medical condition requiring a low calorie intake, in which case that person would have to be under medical supervision"
"don't need to suffer the side effects of a 1200 calorie diet"
-- I don't think the "almost"s are really enough to make many infer that you think 1200 is okay for anyone other than the proverbial special snowflake.0 -
It was my doctor who suggested 1200, my dietician suggested 1000, I hover somewhere between the two most days, occasionally down as low as 700, life or death. No competition really.
Be careful,
You can end up with situation that your body will be in constant stress.
As result as soon you will add more calories the body will immediately store your additional calories as the fat form.
And of course you can get issues with your metabolism essentially.0 -
I lost and gained the same 7lbs for 12 months eating 1200. Now, in a fraction of that time, I have lost 9lbs following the Roadmap (eating around 1600 calories a day plus exercise calories). And the weight is continuining to drop off. I'm not as grouchy, I drink alcohol, I have the energy to run and lift weights, my skin is better, I'm less hungry and far happier.
How do you lose and gain at the same calorie level?
1200 net or 1200 gross. I wish people would be specific.
1200 net
How did you lose and gain at a consistent net calorie level?0 -
Yawns. *eye roll*
I'm always amazed at the amount of people so focused on what other people are doing and eating....
Yep.0 -
One formula doesnt fit all...
not that I eat 1200 or anything but lets not put people down for eating less than we believe they should. its their body not ours. and if they are losing and not malnourished who cares
Thank you. I feel like berating people for their calorie choice is akin to fat-shaming. If I'm not allowed to tell someone to reduce their calorie intake, no one should tell me to increase mine. Unsolicited advice is unsolicited for a reason.0 -
I hope I can post here, as I'm struggling with this concept...I've read up a lot on it but I still can't grasp it. At 1,200 (my MFP-set goal) I'd be eating below my BMR, which seems pretty terrible (a 51% cut from TDEE!). But -20% from my TDEE would be 1,855 which is a terrifying number.
I've been stalled for a month now (lost a single pound...) so I'm not sure if I should just work harder, exercise more consistently (well yeah I need to do that, too!) and see if it changes, or really just inhale all food that comes near me and go by my TDEE-20%. Any help from someone who's knowledgeable would be appreciated!0 -
Reposting the original post to remind anyone who has just joined in what this thread is about. Sensible advice for anyone who has tried 1200 calories a day and found it hasn't worked for them.
Each to their own, but for anyone (newcomers in particular) who is struggling on 1200, the advice from WinnerVictorious is really, really helpful. It's not a "you must do this" post but simply a signpost towards an easier way to lose weight.
Too bad the original post didn't have the "found it hasn't worked for them" caveat. It might have been more well received than just the blanket "do this or you're wrong" pronouncement.
there is no "do this or you're wrong" pronouncement in anything i've posted. i left plenty of wiggle room for those for whom 1200 is valid or for those who decide to adhere to 1200. words matter. i choose and parse my words carefully so that my meaning is clear. i'm dumbstruck at the notion than anyone can read what i've written, disregard what those words actually mean, and then invent a new meaning and attack me for something i didn't write.
:frown:
Intent is often hard to discern in the written word, I'll give you that. But with pronouncements like --
"you should almost certainly be eating MORE than 1200 calories per day"
"too low for almost everyone who does not have an unusual medical condition requiring a low calorie intake, in which case that person would have to be under medical supervision"
"don't need to suffer the side effects of a 1200 calorie diet"
-- I don't think the "almost"s are really enough to make many infer that you think 1200 is okay for anyone other than the proverbial special snowflake.
I love being a special snowflake! :drinker: :happy:
Maybe the 1200 calorie diet was made for me and me only!0 -
If you don't do well on 1200 calories, don't eat 1200 calories, but don't dictate to other people.
It's really that simple.
Whoever made the above statement on this thread, I have to agree 100%!!!!!
I had someone message me saying I was wrong in what I was doing for my weight loss.....REALLY ??!!! What works for me is what works for me. Everyone is different and needs to do what works for them. This site should be for comparing and helping, not dictating what one should or shouldn't do.0 -
Without reading any other replies outside of those on the first page:
OP, I think your post is excellent advice, and so are the links you posted. Hopefully your post will reach those in need of that "road map." However...I think you will always have naysayers who say "Don't tell me what to do!" and go back to their 1200-calorie "diets."
I also agree with whoever wrote that MFP needs some adjustments so it doesn't automatically recommend 1200 calories for so many people for whom that doesn't fit.
:drinker:0 -
I personally don't care what other people do to get to their fitness goals, but for me, 1200 calories works. Not only that, I have never found any scientific evidence that 1200 calories causes LBM loss or BMR decrease.
And, if I may add, most of the arguments I have seen here against a 1200 calorie diet don't even attempt to use science. They use very technical language and talk over people's heads which makes it sound science-Y but it's not scientific. As a skeptic, that always gives me the unsettling feeling that somebody is pitching woo to me.
Simple science.
to lose 1lb a week, people need to consume 500 calories less than they burn, during their daily activities, including exercise.
When you consider that for the average female, 2000 is considered maintenance, they would lose 1lb a week eating 1500 calories a day.
For the majority of people, 1200 (Gross) is more than a 500 defict as not many people would have a TDEE of 1700.
People don't take the time to work out their individual needs, and a lot of the time people input the incorrect information into MFP in the first place. They say they are sedentary, when they aren't. They chose an aggressive loss target (2lb), and then when MFP gives them 1200 PLUS exercise calories, they ignore the exercise bit, and just eat the 1200.
These are the people that really need to reassess their goals.0 -
How did you lose and gain at a consistent net calorie level?
Here is the response I gave you on the last page (thread is moving fast!)I can only put it down to my body being really unhappy with getting calories way below my BMR for months upon end. I was constantly hungry, my skin was constantly breaking out and I felt utterly miserable. I also struggled to do any endurance sport (up to six hours of mountain climbing most weekends) despite eating back my exercise calories. My body was being starved.
Once I started eating a calorie intake above my BMR, I felt tonnes better and the weight started shifting. Best of all my endurance when doing sport has gone through the roof and my bodyfat percentage has noticeably dropped.0
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