BMR for the obese QUESTION?!

I personally don't think it does, the exception being the Katch-McArdle method which might not be any more accurate but at least considers body fat. As a bloke of 350lb my TDEE with these calculators come in at 4000+ and my BMR at over 3000!

So BMR - The online calculators for that, do they really take into account obesity because I don't see how my body would need so many extra calories when it's just got a lot of extra fat on it, If it was this weight in muscle, sure I understand you gotta feed em like a pet or else they'll die and go away.

The extra fat means extra weight, which means your body burns more calories just standing or walking than you would burn if you didn't have the extra fat. That being said, the calculators are averages. They are based on the average person. Some people find they are too low or too high. For me, all the calculators say my BMR is about 1700, but come to find out, that's actually low. My BMR is actually probably closer to 2000, based on my food diary numbers and the amount of weight I've lost. Last week, I averaged 2300 calories and still lost a half a pound. My true TDEE is roughly 2500. There are some that swing the other way though,

The best bet is to try the online estimate to start off and then adjust after you've been logging for several weeks.

Although people say don't eat BMR I have been doing daily for the last three months without issues, because I quite simply cannot eat 3000-4000 calories a day. I know others who've done the same...

I don't think MFP deals with obese numbers very well at all to be honest. At 350lb my BMR according to https://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator is 2700 but will quite happily give me a daily goal of 2400 even to lose a moderate 2lb a week!

Although people say don't eat BMR I have been doing daily for the last three months without issues, because I quite simply cannot eat 3000-4000 calories a day. I know others who've done the same...

I've seen no scientific evidence that eating below your BMR (reasonably below, not very low calorie diets) causes issues. I've been doing it for 2 years now. I am not wasting away - just losing at a reasonable pace. My body fat, while still high, is below what the online estimators say (so presumably means that I'm more muscular than average). However, on workout days, I eat back all of my calories. I net below my BMR, but on workout days, I eat much closer to it, or over it. I aim to net 1200 calories a day (though I probably average about 1300 net because I tend to go over). On workout days, that might mean I eat 1400 or all the way up to 2400 on long run days. My RMR was tested at 1662 last summer. It's probably less now, but at that time, it was about 10% higher than online estimators, so again, leads me to believe that I'm more muscular than average.

When you're starting out obese, you can definitely get away with smaller deficits. You have a large muscle mass to support all that weight so you can stand to lose some muscle. I have another Bod Pod test scheduled for Friday to see how much my BF percentage has dropped since last summer. It will be interesting to see how much lean mass I've lost since then.

The Harris Benedict formula is based on height and weight, and assumes an average body fat percentage, so yes it would take into account obesity.

I learned recently that the Katch McArdle formula does not take body fat into account, only lean body mass.

So, for an obese person, the Harris Benedict formula is best. For someone who has a healthy body fat percentage but more lean body mass for their height than average, the Katch McArdle formula is better.

I don't see how that's possible that the Katch McArdle formula is better if you have higher LBM for your height/weight. It has me eating barely more than half the calories that I'm currently eating to lose about a pound a week.

Caloric Need:
Estimated Base BMR: 1509 Calories.
Estimated TDEE: 1811 Calories.
Estimated Daily Caloric Need For Weight Loss: 1311 Calories.

It says my TDEE would be 1811, yet my true TDEE, from logging for seven months, is actually 2500. I think that calculator is the worst for persons with higher LBM.

The body is only able to metabolize 31 calories for pound of fat a day (and I'm talking only fat pounds here) (resource: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615). If you have a 100 pounds of fat, the body can't metabolize more than 3100 calories from fat; if you have more than that as a deficit it's going to come from somewhere else (usually muscle).

Never knew that!! Learn something new every day

Take the guesswork out of the equation. Get an RMR testing done. I'm going to do so. For $100, I'll know what my BMR which a high degree of accuracy is, and can calculate my TDEE from there. Playing roulette with the calculators sn't worth it, IMHO.

Yep. I had a body composition scan done and I'm so glad I did. Turns out my actual BMR is almost 200 calories under the number from the online calculators. Apparently I'm rather buff underneath all this extra..uh..stored energy.

Although people say don't eat BMR I have been doing daily for the last three months without issues, because I quite simply cannot eat 3000-4000 calories a day. I know others who've done the same...

I've seen no scientific evidence that eating below your BMR (reasonably below, not very low calorie diets) causes issues. I've been doing it for 2 years now. I am not wasting away - just losing at a reasonable pace. My body fat, while still high, is below what the online estimators say (so presumably means that I'm more muscular than average). However, on workout days, I eat back all of my calories. I net below my BMR, but on workout days, I eat much closer to it, or over it. I aim to net 1200 calories a day (though I probably average about 1300 net because I tend to go over). On workout days, that might mean I eat 1400 or all the way up to 2400 on long run days. My RMR was tested at 1662 last summer. It's probably less now, but at that time, it was about 10% higher than online estimators, so again, leads me to believe that I'm more muscular than average.

When you're starting out obese, you can definitely get away with smaller deficits. You have a large muscle mass to support all that weight so you can stand to lose some muscle. I have another Bod Pod test scheduled for Friday to see how much my BF percentage has dropped since last summer. It will be interesting to see how much lean mass I've lost since then.

I'm not jewish but I believe the correct response to this is definitely Oy Vey! Your statements and reasoning here are almost all wrong, but if you ignore the reasoning, you do find your way to the right in summary result! So this is dangerous since someone might take this reasoning for correct and apply it to a different situation.

--> I've seen no scientific evidence that eating below your BMR (reasonably below, not very low calorie diets) causes issues.

Unless you think you can get calories out of thin air, you dont agree with what you said: BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate of what your body needs for basic functions to survive. To say there is no scientific evidence eating below BMR can cause issues is pretty wild. You dont get a choice on this, your body burns BMR calories no matter what, and if you ingest below this, your body catabolizes another part of your body, or you die. You can eat below true BMR and be fine, but your body EATS ITSELF for the extra calories, in this case it is what we want for weight loss: your body had a deficit and burned (hopefully) fat. If you have a lot of body fat and have proper nutrition, you can do this and be fine, and have to do it to lose weight. But, to suggest there is no scientific evidence it can cause issues and you can do it for years with people of just average height weighing less than 120lbs looking to lose weight too, it is very dangerous. The key is to start with the MFP estimate for your current weight loss goals, exercise, eat back those calories and find out how quickly you yourself are responding, and adjust, so you can achieve a reasonably paced weight loss. (it sounds like you have I'm saying in general)

--> However, on workout days, I eat back all of my calories. I net below my BMR, but on workout days, I eat much closer to it, or over it.
This sounds like you actually eat back the exercise calories (way over your calculated BMR) on workout days, which is perfect, and slightly below on other days, allowing for some muscle growth and increasing your metabolism, while reducing a mild amount on other days for fat burning, it sounds like you are doing a great job.

--> When you're starting out obese, you can definitely get away with smaller deficits. You have a large muscle mass to support all that weight so you can stand to lose some muscle.

Reverse of what you said. You can actually get away with larger deficits when you are starting out obese and be OK, but if you are not, it gets more problematic (and dangerous for those close to the lower end of "average" weight trying to lose). You do have more muscles to move an obese frame around, however it is critical you dont lose that muscle, and the goal should be to increase the muscle: losing it reduces your metabolism, making it harder to lose weight, gaining muscle increases metabolism, making it easier to lose weight. A weight loss program that has less deficit and incorporates exercise is better to preserve the muscle, and maintain that loss after reaching your goal weight. The more of that muscle you lose, the slower your net result in the end.

-->I have another Bod Pod test scheduled for Friday to see how much my BF percentage has dropped since last summer. It will be interesting to see how much lean mass I've lost since then.

If your BF, Body Fat percentage dropped, that is not a lean mass loss, it is what you want, bodyfat loss. Lean mass you hopefully arent losing, as this will reduce your ability to continue losing weight and keeping the weight off later. You can lose both however and still show BF percentage loss, if you lost more fat than lean mass loss in ratio. But that is not to your advantage. You can tell by the estimated total lean mass. However these measures are not very accurate.

In general the calculators are more off the higher up the weight scale you are. The reason is it is an estimate, and the more mass you have, the more significant any deviation off "average" can be ( 5% *100 is only 5lbs, but 5% *300 is 15lbs...). Now you HAVE to eat under the real total BMR plus exercise to lose. The key is to start with the MFP estimate, subtract the amount for your current weight loss goals and test it for YOU. Make sure to add exercise, eat back those calories you exercise, make sure your nutrition is good and you eat good whole foods and get enough of all nutrients and protein and find out how quickly you yourself are responding. If you are losing too slowly or too quickly, take a second look at your estimates: are you actually guessing at portion size? Are you losing too fast? Did you accurately record the intensity of your workout? Did you claim you are moderately active but sit most of the day? Did you have calories within range but eat processed or salt laden foods? etc, etc. After taking these considerations into account, adjust the calorie levels so you can achieve a reasonably paced weight loss.

Now its true the more obese you are, the more you can withstand bigger deficits for a short period of time. The danger comes if you are causing your body to lose muscle or if you dont have proper nutrition. So incorporating some weight lifting into your routine and eating back the calories is very important. 3-4k cal/day does seem like a lot, your calculator could be off, and if it feels like its making you eat more food it almost certainly is off. You dont however want to decrease too much too fast and throw your body into "starvation mode/shock".

I'll use myself for example, I am around 2100 calories a day BMR according to Myfitpal. The goal I have is approximately 1900 calories per day. I exercise/lift alot and I generally try to eat back my calories and see good losses. Sometimes I dont eat them all back, especially on heavy workout days when my calorie burn could more than double my food intake to remain on target and the results I notice are enlightening: its not the intense workout days that I see more weight drop the next day, its after a day or two of the more moderate days If I eat too little I can be weak for a weightlifting session and I also don't tend to lose weight, plus my muscle didnt get adequate stimulation for growth that day. Now yes the body takes time to respond, but its a generalization which illustrates light to moderate weight loss rate is better idea.

Also remember if you are doing it right, exercising to increase muscle and following your calories closely, eating them back (with good food etc), you may not see weight loss at first. That's normal, and if done correctly that's good: you are building muscle which will help accelerate you later. Again using myself as an example (not everyone is the same but the principal is correct) this is ALWAYS my pattern. I increase workout intensity/frequency initially, I see no loss, sometimes gains, then after about a week or two the weight starts pouring off.

Remember these are all generalizations and you should check and go over them with a doctor before starting for your own particular case before starting any program!