Frustration - Wife sabotages herself - women listen up
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my first thought was that this is a troll thread (user has 7 posts, and all or most in this thread, no picture, and chooses this as one of his first topics)
But... I will respond anyways.
I have struggled with self esteem all my life. I used to look in the mirror and see all my flaws. My husband would by me sexy outfits and tell me how sexy I was, and how he wanted me in the bedroom...
but I was all but invisible everywhere else.
he didn't want to spend time together, he had projects to do.
he didn't want to hear about my day at work, I am in IT, and he doesn't know computers, so he didn't have any interest.
he didn't want to go out and do stuff, because he had a long day at work.
I am a quality time kind of gal - you wanna get to my heart and soul, spend time and talk to me.
I would reach out to hug him in the early years of our marriage and he would push me away because he was busy. I'd go to kiss him and he'd move away. Always stuff to do.
We were married 13 years before I gave up and am now in the process of a very messy and painful separation.
I was tired of only ever being wanted in the bedroom. You see, my self confidence was tied to my body image, and it seemed to me that my only value in his eyes, was how much action we got in the bedroom - the two were intimately entwined. Now add in a porn addiction, and all of a sudden, I could not compete with those sexy airbrushed women who wanted it so badly.
I was a mother, a full time worker, and run off my feet. I was exhausted. And I felt utterly alone.
Him buying me sexy clothes meant nothing. In fact it made me angry even more.
Him telling me how sexy I was meant nothing. It made me angry and upset too... and it wasn't loud enough to silence the voices that said I wasn't good enough.
I just wanted to be wanted.
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OP.. When I read your post, it sounded 'good' and yet off somehow.I didn't like it, and I don't know why. And it resonated with me because I found myself carried back to those days. I don't know if this is a real post, or if you have any similarities to what I had...
But my recommendation to you would be to... stop putting so much stock in her appearance, and instead spend time with her. Do stuff together. Go places. Listen intently to her day. Let her talk. Show her that you love HER and I think the rest will start to fall into place.
Just my two cents.
Oh, and check out the book - the 5 love languages... it talks about how to figure out what language your spouse speaks, and how to love them in it.0 -
I had a hard time reading as you tore your wife to shreds about her lack of confidence. This was a uniquely painful experience, thank you for subjecting me to this brand new kind of discomfort.
With love,
Burt
This was how I felt also.
Me too.0 -
I thought I was at a loss for words after reading the original post ... That is until I started reading some of the unbelievable responses from the women here ... I'm embarrassed for all of the women who didn't think the original thread was COMPLETELY disturbing, belittling and controlling.0
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well, i see that some young ladies totally missed your point and are making drama-inspired comments about you being 'controlling' or some such nonsense. i'm old enough to be your mother so i'm going to dispense with the drama.
i think you are a prize. because you think SHE is a treasure.
but she can't see herself through your eyes.
and this is a VERY common problem. you cannot change this, or help her understand, any time soon. it is going to take years. maybe a couple of decades.
i went through it too. after being married to an incredible man for more than 20 years, i read something and it clicked. i can't tell you what i read, or where i read it. but here's what happened:
when my husband told me i was beautiful, i decided to believe him, because I WANTED HIM TO BE RIGHT.
currently she wants the drama/attention more than she wants you to be right.
and i bet you keep having the same conversation over and over. that needs to change. if she wants drama, give her some, but not the same drama you've been giving her. when you give her a compliment, and she blows it off, you can tell her that it hurts you when she dismisses you and makes you feel like your opinion is unimportant. in other words, you need to talk like a female because you are dealing with a female.
if she needs more drama, wait until she gives you a compliment, and then disagree with her and tell her she is cruel for making fun of you.
if that approach is not your style, you could tell her that it makes you hopping mad to hear someone badmouth the woman you love.
also you might just listen to her rant and then ask her to say something positive about herself. one negative comment costs one positive comment.
in any case she needs to stop this crap before you have children or it will affect them.
sir, i have no patience with drama. it comes from having had two teenage daughters at the same time. (they are both grown now.) thanks for listening to me spout off!
but please don't stop giving her compliments. that would be a bad thing for all parties concerned. and perhaps you could say more things like, 'i love being with you', or, 'i love your generous heart', or something like that, rather than complimenting her appearance. that might help. or you could tweak it a little. change 'i think your hair is nice', to, 'your hair is beautiful, in my opinion.' and she can't argue, because it's an opinion. she can disagree, but not argue. what can she say? 'no, you don't think that?' if she does, see above paragraph about blowing you off. which, by the way, is incredibly disrespectful. how about, 'your hair feels so good when i run my fingers through it.' that's an attention grabber!
good luck and God bless. it's going to be a long road.
I feel the utmost sympathy for your daughters.0 -
It sounds to me like both you and your wife are super focused on her appearance. How about investing some time in building up her confidence in other areas? Don't just tell her what she's good at, spend time on it. Spend time together doing something constructive and interesting and fun - something where appearance doesn't matter at all, and maybe even something where you get sweaty and dirty (I mean with actual dirt) - like, I don't know, gardening, or bike riding, or . . . hmm, I'm having trouble thinking of ideas for March during a rough winter. Laser tag? Home improvement? Plumbing? Then, be sure to SHOW her, not just tell her, how sexy you think she is while sweaty and dirty (this time I mean the other way).
If she's obsessing about her appearance, having you obsess just as much probably isn't helping. Do other stuff, and talk about other stuff.
The last guy I dated gave me lots of compliments on my appearance. I said "thank you" nicely, and thought to myself, "That's sweet, but really, a little over the top." The compliment I remember, and which was a major turn on, was, "I really like talking to you - you know what you're talking about. You have opinions."0 -
I had a hard time reading as you tore your wife to shreds about her lack of confidence. This was a uniquely painful experience, thank you for subjecting me to this brand new kind of discomfort.
With love,
Burt
This was how I felt also.
Really? Have you ever been with someone who is insecure? They need constant reassurance. The OP explained this in great detail. It is absolutely exhausting to have to constantly reassure someone of their worth. And it is not fair to the person who has to do the reassuring because no matter what they do or say, no matter what tactics they try, the insecure person does not listen to them and their self-image is not improved. It's highly frustrating to have to maintain someone else's self-esteem while trying to maintain your own.
I've been with my husband for 15 years (and we were friends for another two years before that). I have my own history that had a very damaging impact on how I view myself and on how I saw my worth as being completely intertwined with my sexual attractiveness. My husband knows this and understands this, so he knows what I have been through. And when he sees me struggling he can help remind me that this is the damage from my past, and he reminds me of the healthy ways I have coped and been able to overcome that. I have, at many times in my life, struggled with a distorted sense of how I looked. My husband is amazing. He has always adored me and helped me to see myself through his eyes. I know that how he sees me does matter. When I feel down about myself, I know that I could spiral into a bad place, so I remind myself of how my husband sees me and that I value him and our relationship. I have a lot of feelings about myself, but I deal with them in my own mind because I know my husband does not see me the way I see myself, so I don't need to always share those thoughts and feelings with him, I can manage them for myself. I also know that the way I feel about myself is how I feel about myself and not how my husband feels about me. I am completely comfortable and uninhibited around my husband because I know how much he is attracted to me and he also says that my comfort with my body and sexuality is one of the things he likes about me.
So, I'm just saying that a woman can have these issues and not have it impact her relationship. But, I do need support from my husband. If my husband behaved and thought in some of the ways as this OP, it would not improve the issues at all. I also find it odd that he felt the need to detail it out in order to try and teach all us women something.
You said that a woman can have those issues and not have them impact her relationship? Perhaps you just didn't notice how much the relationship was, indeed, impacted.
I'm sorry, but I know more about my relationship than you do. And clearly you do not understand what I said at all, if that is what you come away with. Not a very insightful person.
My husband and I are both human. And we are open and honest with each other. He has issues of his own as well. And I am a support to him. And we also deal with our issues on our own, as people should. We do not make one another a therapist. We are husband and wife. The issues that we each have are very minor in comparison to the strengths that we have and that we each bring to the relationship. He thanks me on a regular basis. And he has said very clearly that he thinks I have an incredible amount of actual self love because of how I care for myself. And that the level of comfort that I have with my body is more than he has ever seen (the level of how completely uninhibited I am). I am a dancer, so it is part of my life. He also says that I have an incredible amount of strength and that the small amount that my (incredibly horrendous past) has had an impact on me is so minimal that if I had not gone through that he thinks I would not struggle with those issues at all. And it has never impacted me in a way any further than just a few thoughts here and there. I never had an eating disorder or anything of that sort. He appreciates me very deeply. And I appreciate him very deeply. We have a wonderful relationship and we are parents together.
Being aware of things and where they originate from (as I have clearly illustrated, without over-sharing) goes a long way towards solving problems.
You really need to learn to expand your horizons a bit, read and listen a little better, be a bit more insightful. You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions based on very minimal information.
Thank you, really, for the laugh. Your depth of self-awareness coupled with the abiding, ever-loyal love of your equally self-aware husband is almost as breathtakingly pure as your condescension.
Peace.0 -
I feel like some people didn't get the point of this post. Jealous maybe.
You sound like a great husband and if you keep on telling her she's pretty, even if she doesn't believe you, and do little things that show her you mean what you say it will go a long way. Perhaps explain to her why your concern about her under dressing (although do realize that sometimes we just don't feel like putting in the effort) and make sure that she gets as much encouragement as possible in whatever it is she is dealing with.
No. He's making it about himself.0 -
Um, I'm sorry but you kind of reinforce her lack of self confidence by how you treat her. Viewing somebody with self confidence issues as selfish because it means she's not as available to you sexually is frightening.
Yeah, this too!
The whole thing was just weird. I don't even know where to start.
I am more baffled by the women/mothers who are applauding this dude. I feel so horrible for this man's wife.0 -
I had a hard time reading as you tore your wife to shreds about her lack of confidence. This was a uniquely painful experience, thank you for subjecting me to this brand new kind of discomfort.
With love,
Burt
This was how I felt also.
Really? Have you ever been with someone who is insecure? They need constant reassurance. The OP explained this in great detail. It is absolutely exhausting to have to constantly reassure someone of their worth. And it is not fair to the person who has to do the reassuring because no matter what they do or say, no matter what tactics they try, the insecure person does not listen to them and their self-image is not improved. It's highly frustrating to have to maintain someone else's self-esteem while trying to maintain your own.
I've been with my husband for 15 years (and we were friends for another two years before that). I have my own history that had a very damaging impact on how I view myself and on how I saw my worth as being completely intertwined with my sexual attractiveness. My husband knows this and understands this, so he knows what I have been through. And when he sees me struggling he can help remind me that this is the damage from my past, and he reminds me of the healthy ways I have coped and been able to overcome that. I have, at many times in my life, struggled with a distorted sense of how I looked. My husband is amazing. He has always adored me and helped me to see myself through his eyes. I know that how he sees me does matter. When I feel down about myself, I know that I could spiral into a bad place, so I remind myself of how my husband sees me and that I value him and our relationship. I have a lot of feelings about myself, but I deal with them in my own mind because I know my husband does not see me the way I see myself, so I don't need to always share those thoughts and feelings with him, I can manage them for myself. I also know that the way I feel about myself is how I feel about myself and not how my husband feels about me. I am completely comfortable and uninhibited around my husband because I know how much he is attracted to me and he also says that my comfort with my body and sexuality is one of the things he likes about me.
So, I'm just saying that a woman can have these issues and not have it impact her relationship. But, I do need support from my husband. If my husband behaved and thought in some of the ways as this OP, it would not improve the issues at all. I also find it odd that he felt the need to detail it out in order to try and teach all us women something.
You said that a woman can have those issues and not have them impact her relationship? Perhaps you just didn't notice how much the relationship was, indeed, impacted.
I'm sorry, but I know more about my relationship than you do. And clearly you do not understand what I said at all, if that is what you come away with. Not a very insightful person.
My husband and I are both human. And we are open and honest with each other. He has issues of his own as well. And I am a support to him. And we also deal with our issues on our own, as people should. We do not make one another a therapist. We are husband and wife. The issues that we each have are very minor in comparison to the strengths that we have and that we each bring to the relationship. He thanks me on a regular basis. And he has said very clearly that he thinks I have an incredible amount of actual self love because of how I care for myself. And that the level of comfort that I have with my body is more than he has ever seen (the level of how completely uninhibited I am). I am a dancer, so it is part of my life. He also says that I have an incredible amount of strength and that the small amount that my (incredibly horrendous past) has had an impact on me is so minimal that if I had not gone through that he thinks I would not struggle with those issues at all. And it has never impacted me in a way any further than just a few thoughts here and there. I never had an eating disorder or anything of that sort. He appreciates me very deeply. And I appreciate him very deeply. We have a wonderful relationship and we are parents together.
Being aware of things and where they originate from (as I have clearly illustrated, without over-sharing) goes a long way towards solving problems.
You really need to learn to expand your horizons a bit, read and listen a little better, be a bit more insightful. You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions based on very minimal information.
Thank you, really, for the laugh. Your depth of self-awareness coupled with the abiding, ever-loyal love of your equally self-aware husband is almost as breathtakingly pure as your condescension.
Peace.
I don't understand how this conversation ended up here. I may have miscommunicated or misunderstood somewhere along the line.0 -
Thank you, really, for the laugh. Your depth of self-awareness coupled with the abiding, ever-loyal love of your equally self-aware husband is almost as breathtakingly pure as your condescension.
Peace.
Welcome to our community. You're definitely making the most of your first two months on the site. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say just how much we look forward to your continued contributions: .
With love,
Burt0 -
Thank you, really, for the laugh. Your depth of self-awareness coupled with the abiding, ever-loyal love of your equally self-aware husband is almost as breathtakingly pure as your condescension.
Peace.
Welcome to our community. You're definitely making the most of your first two months on the site. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say just how much we look forward to your continued contributions: .
With love,
Burt
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Hmmmmm, I had a similar situation. So, through trial and error I came up with an answer. I worked out pretty consistently and she hated going. So, I went and found a great personal trainer and I went to him. After awhile my body changed for the better. Then off the cuff, I made an excuse that I was busy and couldn't go, so I asked her if she would take my spot. She thought about it and said yes. Then I gave her the rest of my sessions and she continued to go. He was expensive so only she went. I was happy because she was happy. occasionally she would flip me a session to be nice. I hope in some way that helps, as far as an idea.0
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Play positive subliminal or hypnosis CDs; perhaps focused on self esteem. She just has some negative self talk from years of societal and media brainwashing. A pretty simple solution to a universal problem. Men are just as insecure; it just gets expressed differently.0
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You know, when I first started reading this I thought you were my husband. I seriously thought "maybe he made an account because he knows i'm on here and posted to ask for advice....maybe hope i saw it?" Only thing different is he is 25 and i'm 23. EVERYTHING else you wrote is exactly the same! Married 3 years, self conscious, sex life, WEIRD!
I feel bad for you. I feel bad for my guy. It is a tough thing to deal with, I know. I don't know how to fix it!0 -
Hope it works out! I would continue offering support and love, and try not to get frustrated when/if her progress is slow. Best of luck.0
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Um, I'm sorry but you kind of reinforce her lack of self confidence by how you treat her. Viewing somebody with self confidence issues as selfish because it means she's not as available to you sexually is frightening.
This.
Also, I'm not totally comfortable with the idea that the issue is her age/youth. I agree that I've developed more confidence as I've matured. But the "she's young, she's a child, pat her on the head and she'll grow out of it" tone to some of the comments bothers me. It doesn't seem very constructive.0 -
I had a hard time reading as you tore your wife to shreds about her lack of confidence. This was a uniquely painful experience, thank you for subjecting me to this brand new kind of discomfort.
With love,
Burt
This was how I felt also.
Really? Have you ever been with someone who is insecure? They need constant reassurance. The OP explained this in great detail. It is absolutely exhausting to have to constantly reassure someone of their worth. And it is not fair to the person who has to do the reassuring because no matter what they do or say, no matter what tactics they try, the insecure person does not listen to them and their self-image is not improved. It's highly frustrating to have to maintain someone else's self-esteem while trying to maintain your own.
I've been with my husband for 15 years (and we were friends for another two years before that). I have my own history that had a very damaging impact on how I view myself and on how I saw my worth as being completely intertwined with my sexual attractiveness. My husband knows this and understands this, so he knows what I have been through. And when he sees me struggling he can help remind me that this is the damage from my past, and he reminds me of the healthy ways I have coped and been able to overcome that. I have, at many times in my life, struggled with a distorted sense of how I looked. My husband is amazing. He has always adored me and helped me to see myself through his eyes. I know that how he sees me does matter. When I feel down about myself, I know that I could spiral into a bad place, so I remind myself of how my husband sees me and that I value him and our relationship. I have a lot of feelings about myself, but I deal with them in my own mind because I know my husband does not see me the way I see myself, so I don't need to always share those thoughts and feelings with him, I can manage them for myself. I also know that the way I feel about myself is how I feel about myself and not how my husband feels about me. I am completely comfortable and uninhibited around my husband because I know how much he is attracted to me and he also says that my comfort with my body and sexuality is one of the things he likes about me.
So, I'm just saying that a woman can have these issues and not have it impact her relationship. But, I do need support from my husband. If my husband behaved and thought in some of the ways as this OP, it would not improve the issues at all. I also find it odd that he felt the need to detail it out in order to try and teach all us women something.
You said that a woman can have those issues and not have them impact her relationship? Perhaps you just didn't notice how much the relationship was, indeed, impacted.
I'm sorry, but I know more about my relationship than you do. And clearly you do not understand what I said at all, if that is what you come away with. Not a very insightful person.
My husband and I are both human. And we are open and honest with each other. He has issues of his own as well. And I am a support to him. And we also deal with our issues on our own, as people should. We do not make one another a therapist. We are husband and wife. The issues that we each have are very minor in comparison to the strengths that we have and that we each bring to the relationship. He thanks me on a regular basis. And he has said very clearly that he thinks I have an incredible amount of actual self love because of how I care for myself. And that the level of comfort that I have with my body is more than he has ever seen (the level of how completely uninhibited I am). I am a dancer, so it is part of my life. He also says that I have an incredible amount of strength and that the small amount that my (incredibly horrendous past) has had an impact on me is so minimal that if I had not gone through that he thinks I would not struggle with those issues at all. And it has never impacted me in a way any further than just a few thoughts here and there. I never had an eating disorder or anything of that sort. He appreciates me very deeply. And I appreciate him very deeply. We have a wonderful relationship and we are parents together.
Being aware of things and where they originate from (as I have clearly illustrated, without over-sharing) goes a long way towards solving problems.
You really need to learn to expand your horizons a bit, read and listen a little better, be a bit more insightful. You are jumping to some pretty big conclusions based on very minimal information.
Thank you, really, for the laugh. Your depth of self-awareness coupled with the abiding, ever-loyal love of your equally self-aware husband is almost as breathtakingly pure as your condescension.
Peace.
I don't understand how this conversation ended up here. I may have miscommunicated or misunderstood somewhere along the line.
Hmmm. Let's see. You said that I was "Not a very insightful person," and that " really need to learn to expand [my] horizons a bit, read and listen a little better, be a bit more insightful."
No, I do not know the intimate details of your marriage, but I imagine that if you use this little "Golly gee, we must have a misunderstanding here," tactic when you clearly hurl passive-aggressive insults, then you have more problems than you are willing to admit to.0 -
He already said that he was wrong to throw away her hair bands. Lets not overreact.0
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Thank you, for posting this. I don't know what the sacred importance to hairbands is about (maybe because I hacked all my hair off!) so I actually read the entire post.
First off, she could just really really REALLY like baggy shirts and sweats because they are convenient! That aside...
You seem to be genuinely concerned about your wife. I don't know what the entire journey has been like for you two, but it seems like she can't see herself beyond whatever started transformation. I think a lot of her rejection to your compliments and support is partially because of that. If she can't see her own beauty without all the fancy get-ups and makeup, then what you say can seem false whether she's dressed up or not. Have you tried sitting down with her to explain how her denial acutally hurts YOU? Maybe, if she sees that you really do support her sincerely, she will be able to start accepting your praise.
A less direct approach might be to find a photo (or ask to take one) of her when she has put the extra effort in. Not evening gown and movie makeup, mind you. Something like Sunday-morning-brunch. Get it sized up. Put it on the wall in the livingroom. Tell her you want it for your office desk. Let her know how much that look means to you. It might not help too much with the self esteem issue, but if she gets enough feedback about looking nicer, she might not turn immediately for her comfort clothes.
Finally...just keep showing her you love her. That will be that absolute best thing you can do for her.
This is the best possible answer here. Kudos to you, OP. If all men were like you, the world would be a much better place.
Seriously? I mean really?
I give up. I must not get women at all! Because to me that sounds twisted.
No. That train of thought makes me feel like I don't get women either. And I am one.
Ditto!!! Now a picture of the wife with her hair up, no make up, wearing sweats or jeans & actually being happy...... that screams "I love everything about you & I appreciate you for who you are."0 -
^ This Exactly. I have to say by the way I am very impressed to see a man express himself in a open forum so honestly and with some depth. I am sure your wife will too when she reads your post, and it will open up for dialogue between the two of youWhy don't you just have your wife read your post and listen to what she has to say.... Hopefully. 0
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