Cleanse - why you are lucky they don't work
EvgeniZyntx
Posts: 24,208 Member
Keeping it simple but I can reference or go into the details of any of these points:
1) Arsenic is the most common heavy metal poison which we can consume or breath.
2) Arsenic is metabolized in the liver by a process called methylation - the resulting metabolite is then cleared by the kidney and excreted in urine.
3) That intermediate metabolite is extremely toxic and cancerogenic. It is important that the amount being produced is cleared quickly. The "detoxing" process of the liver actually increases the bioavailability of the metabolite and increases the cancer causing effects of arsenic.
4) It has been suggested that the resulting metabolite is less dangerous because the rate of production is matched by the rate of clearance
5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
A cleanse that works to improve detoxification processes would likely result in higher bioavailabilty of the most toxic form of arsenic. Remember, arsenic is the likeliest heavy metal we encounter in certain foods (like fish...) and the environment from various manufacturing processes.
Carry on with that super cleanse.
1) Arsenic is the most common heavy metal poison which we can consume or breath.
2) Arsenic is metabolized in the liver by a process called methylation - the resulting metabolite is then cleared by the kidney and excreted in urine.
3) That intermediate metabolite is extremely toxic and cancerogenic. It is important that the amount being produced is cleared quickly. The "detoxing" process of the liver actually increases the bioavailability of the metabolite and increases the cancer causing effects of arsenic.
4) It has been suggested that the resulting metabolite is less dangerous because the rate of production is matched by the rate of clearance
5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
A cleanse that works to improve detoxification processes would likely result in higher bioavailabilty of the most toxic form of arsenic. Remember, arsenic is the likeliest heavy metal we encounter in certain foods (like fish...) and the environment from various manufacturing processes.
Carry on with that super cleanse.
0
Replies
-
I enjoy your posts.0
-
Agree to disagree. The detox diet I am currently on is the most life altering thing I had ever done.0
-
I
you. 0 -
Agree to disagree. The detox diet I am currently on is the most life altering thing I had ever done.
Possibly, but if it was actually activating your liver and increasing methylation you would possibly be in serious trouble down the road. In no way does my post negate the mental and perceptual benefits you might see, just that if it actually did something in the liver you could be in serious problems.0 -
I believe that your step 5 misses the holistic cleansing of unspecified toxins in an unspecified way. Try though I might, I've never been able to stab fog.1
-
Agree to disagree. The detox diet I am currently on is the most life altering thing I had ever done.
What are you disagreeing with exactly?0 -
I believe that your step 5 misses the holistic cleansing of unspecified toxins in an unspecified way. Try though I might, I've never been able to stab fog.
You are right! Step five does not cover holistic cleansing of uncertain molecules, unicorn farts or fairy dust!
It is however a documented and proposed process: where normal methylation might be a valid detoxification if intermediates do not accumulate.
First referenceThe toxicology of arsenic is complicated by its ability to convert between oxidation states and organometalloidal forms. These processes cause differences in the relative tissue-binding affinities of the various arsenic species, and they determine both the intoxication and the detoxification mechanisms. In this review, a chemical hypothesis of arsenic biomethylation is developed from an examination of data and observations presented by researchers who conducted numerous in vivo and in vitro experiments. It is likely that a combination of pathways is actually used during methylation of arsenic in vivo, and that the principal mechanism depends on various factors affecting the cellular environment. Despite these uncertainties, several observations can be made: (i) glutathione (GSH) is required for reduction of arsenic(V) to arsenic(III) species in preparation for enzyme-catalyzed oxidative methylation; (ii) GSH is not involved in monomethylation once arsenite is formed, but GSH is involved in dimethylation by reducing methylarsonic acid [MMA(V)] to methylarsonous acid [MMA(III)]; (iii) GSH is also required in the methylation of arsenic by stabilizing the reductive nature of the cell; (iv) a different methyltransferase is used in each methylation step; (v) dithiols (either a cofactor or the methyltransferases) are required for both mono- and dimethylation and (vi) where dithiols are involved, oxidative methylation reduces the stability of the arsenic-sulfur complex and permits dissociation of the arsenic species. This lower affinity of the pentavalent organoarsenic species for dithiols is part of the reason why methylation of arsenic can be a detoxification mechanism when the As(III) intermediates are not permitted to accumulate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/84030810 -
I didn't understood most of it but I know you're awesome and now I know that we're awesome because our body automatically says to cleanses "Oh HEEELLLLLL NAWW!!!"
Keep on rocking Zyntx!0 -
I disagree with gravity. Also numbers. It's just a theory, I mean have you ever counted to a trillion?0
-
5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.0 -
I believe that your step 5 misses the holistic cleansing of unspecified toxins in an unspecified way. Try though I might, I've never been able to stab fog.
Hi0 -
:drinker:0
-
I believe that your step 5 misses the holistic cleansing of unspecified toxins in an unspecified way. Try though I might, I've never been able to stab fog.
Hi
0 -
5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
You'll find out that I make up very little on science subjects. Please see the reference I posted. Step five is NOT my theory but a published, PubMed referenced article. It is a theory but there is a body of science of various articles backing it up and others on metabolite availability. BTW, the arsenic metabolitles are also the reason we see an increase in cancer in the kidneys - the are NOT accumulating arsenic but the metabolite. I can dig up the reference for that too - not MY theory.
edit: Saying that I made it up is a weak attempt at opprobrium, I invite you to explain to me the specific changes that are created in the GFR that show a speed up in the kidneys. Since GFR is something that can be easily measured, I expect that you can pull a simple reference that shows such an increase as observed in a detox. Either provide creatine clearance levels study or a labelled water reference. If you can do so, I will seriously consider that we might have a reasonable counter to at least one of the articles supporting point 5.0 -
Can you please enlighten us as to which specific detox(es) are demonstrated to speed up both liver detoxification and the kidneys' removal of which elements/molecule(s)?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
Thanks in advance.:happy:0 -
What metabolite specifically of those mentioned is causing the problems?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
You'll find out that I make up very little on science subjects. Please see the reference I posted. Step five is NOT my theory but a published, PubMed referenced article. It is a theory but there is a body of science of various articles backing it up and others on metabolite availability. BTW, the arsenic metabolitles are also the reason we see an increase in cancer in the kidneys - the are NOT accumulating arsenic but the metabolite. I can dig up the reference for that too - not MY theory.0 -
I disagree with gravity. Also numbers. It's just a theory, I mean have you ever counted to a trillion?
^^^ this
Gravity is but a myth invented by people who are too lazy to try to fly. We have all been brainwashed at birth to believe that we can't fly because of gravity, but if we work hard enough to get over this brainwashing, we can, in fact, fly.
Gravity is basically force at a distance, pfft!!! that breaks some laws of physics. And no scientist has yet been able to find any graviton particles.
Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark. They appear brighter the closer you get to the light, because that's where they are sucking the most dark. If you don't believe me, then take a dead battery out of a torch and open it up. It's full of dark powder. That's all the dark that the torch has sucked. The battery dies because it's sucked too much dark. The sun may appear to be giving light, but it's actually an extremely efficient dark sucker. Space is mostly full of dark, but the area around stars appears to be brighter, because stars are such efficient dark suckers.
[/pseudoscience]0 -
Interesting, thanks for sharing.0
-
http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf
Can you please enlighten us as to which specific detox(es) are demonstrated to speed up both liver detoxification and the kidneys' removal of which elements/molecule(s)?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
Thanks in advance.:happy:
The foods that speed up the phases of liver detoxification and removing from the diet those that hinder it.0 -
must sleep, could be arsenic metabolite poisoning.0
-
I know, right? Look at schematic diagrams and the abbreviation for a light bulb is often "DS" ... dark sucker.Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark.0 -
What metabolite specifically of those mentioned is causing the problems?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
You'll find out that I make up very little on science subjects. Please see the reference I posted. Step five is NOT my theory but a published, PubMed referenced article. It is a theory but there is a body of science of various articles backing it up and others on metabolite availability. BTW, the arsenic metabolitles are also the reason we see an increase in cancer in the kidneys - the are NOT accumulating arsenic but the metabolite. I can dig up the reference for that too - not MY theory.
Arsenic III and MMA III are considered to be more bioavailable and toxic than the inorganic metal or prior intermediate step metabolites. It's all in the article referenced.0 -
I know, right? Look at schematic diagrams and the abbreviation for a light bulb is often "DS" ... dark sucker.Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark.
absolutely. and we should all swallow fairy lights to cleanse the dark out of our colons
and then poop rainbows
right click to view entire image (stupid thing is too big lol)0 -
Well I only got through part of the first page and I'm so glad to have "learned" that liver spots are a symptom of liver dysfunction.
http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf
Can you please enlighten us as to which specific detox(es) are demonstrated to speed up both liver detoxification and the kidneys' removal of which elements/molecule(s)?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
Thanks in advance.:happy:
The foods that speed up the phases of liver detoxification and removing from the diet those that hinder it.0 -
I know, right? Look at schematic diagrams and the abbreviation for a light bulb is often "DS" ... dark sucker.Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark.
absolutely. and we should all swallow fairy lights to cleanse the dark out of our colons
and then poop rainbows
For some reason, I read that as croutons - and I don't even like croutons0 -
After eating birthday cake with multicolored frosting we've all been pooping rainbows in my house this week.
I know, right? Look at schematic diagrams and the abbreviation for a light bulb is often "DS" ... dark sucker.Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark.
absolutely. and we should all swallow fairy lights to cleanse the dark out of our colons
and then poop rainbows
1 -
I just woke up and read this post.
Today will be a good day.0 -
I know, right? Look at schematic diagrams and the abbreviation for a light bulb is often "DS" ... dark sucker.Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark.
absolutely. and we should all swallow fairy lights to cleanse the dark out of our colons
and then poop rainbows
For some reason, I read that as croutons - and I don't even like croutons
Obviously the toxins are causing neurological symptoms. I urge you to seek immediate treatment from a holistic or energy healer. A real doctor wouldn't properly know how to help you.0 -
3) The "detoxing" process of the liver actually increases the bioavailability of the metabolite and increases the cancer causing effects of arsenic.
Can you please explain to me in further detail about #3. Specifically how does the "detoxing process increase the bioavailability.
Thanks.0 -
http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf
Can you please enlighten us as to which specific detox(es) are demonstrated to speed up both liver detoxification and the kidneys' removal of which elements/molecule(s)?5) if cleanses worked and increased the liver detoxification processes such as methylation, the resulting metabolites would no longer be cleared sufficiently fast resulting in more toxic metabolites being left available.
You made step 5 up. It's just your theory. Why wouldn't they be no longer cleared sufficiently fast enough? Is the detox just going to speed up methylation and not the removal?
Detoxes done right speed up liver detoxification all the way to the toilet bowl.
Thanks in advance.:happy:
The foods that speed up the phases of liver detoxification and removing from the diet those that hinder it.
That's an interesting pdf - but it has some junk science that someone has either made up or misunderstood or over simplified.
Lets take arsenic - the liver does not just metabolize arsenic into water soluble compounds that are simply eliminated. Actually metalic arsenic is more water soluble than the organoarsenic metabolites, methylation of metalic arsenic results in bioactive intermediates.
The phrase " The role of these various enzyme activities in the liver is to convert fat soluble toxins into water soluble substances that can be excreted in the urine" in the pdf is incorrect. The general idea that these converted substances are detoxified is often correct but not so for arsenic. The metabolites are highly toxic. Time for another reference, so you don't tell me again that I'm making things up.In humans, as in most mammalian species, inorganic arsenic is methylated to methylarsonic acid (MMA) and dimethylarsinic acid (DMA) by alternating reduction of pentavalent arsenic to trivalent and addition of a methyl group from S-adenosylmethionine. The methylation of inorganic arsenic may be considered a detoxification mechanism, as the end metabolites, MMA and DMA, are less reactive with tissue constituents, less toxic, and more readily excreted in the urine than is inorganic arsenic, especially the trivalent form (AsIII, arsenite). The latter is highly reactive with tissue components, due to its strong affinity for sulfhydryl groups. Thus, following exposure to AsV the first step in the biotransformation, i.e. the reduction to AsIII, may be considered a bioactivation. Also, reactive intermediate metabolites of high toxicity, mainly MMAIII, may be formed and distributed to tissues. Low levels of MMAIII and DMAIII have been detected in urine of individuals chronically exposed to inorganic arsenic via drinking water. However, the contribution of MMAIIIand DMAIII to the toxicity observed after intake of inorganic arsenic by humans remains to be elucidated. The major route of excretion of arsenic is via the kidneys. Evaluation of the methylation of arsenic is mainly based on the relative amounts of the different metabolites in urine. On average human urine contains 10-30% inorganic arsenic, 10-20% MMA and 60-80% DMA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11484904
This address point 3, too.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 423 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions