I'm conflicted about "Fat Acceptance" morally.. I find

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

If your morals make you say "ew" about other people's bodies or even judge other people's bodies, I suggest you rethink them and get back to worrying about you.

I think this woman is gorgeous. What is "gross" to me isn't how she looks, but how I just know that under that porcelain skin of hers, her body is struggling to survive on a daily basis. THAT is not okay to me, and no one should kid themselves that they are 'healthy' when they are obese like this.

I'm not saying we should police fat people, but "Fat Acceptance" tends to rub me the wrong way too.

I'm in the UK and there was a program on this a while ago, and a woman around 300-350lb was trying to say she was healthy because at that moment in time she was. Anyone who says they are happy at that size are lying to themselves

Agreed.
If you get out of breath going up the stairs or have to have "custom", large seats then you definitely need to do something about your health.

Just curious (and no, I am not trying to be argumentative)-- do you feel the same way about smokers, drinkers, and drug users? Should they be embraced for who they are, or is it acceptable for society to put negative pressures on them so that they will stop their behaviors, even if they are only hurting themselves by continuing to use? Just because the parallels between being fat and being hooked on another substance--whatever it is-- are a bit too close to ignore... I would like to hear your personal thoughts on this.

Here's how it is (I'm going to use smoking as an example because I've thought about this a lot). Is smoking healthy? No. But it's another person's decision to smoke. I think it's only fair to tell someone to lose weight or stop smoking if you're very, very close to them and have a personal reason to care about their health. Do I get mad when my parents tell me to lose weight? No. They worry about my health. But when a stranger does it? Really? Is that the only thing about me that matters?

My parents smoke and I ask them to stop because I worry about their health, but whether or not my not-so-close friends smoke or not is not relevant to me. I can overlook it and still appreciate them as people; they're not inherently bad because they smoke. They probably battle with trying to quit the same way a fat person battles with their weight. By constantly belittling a person that's struggling to just stop or quit is offensive because it's never that easy. Ever. Addiction is a tough subject, and people, I think, make it their issue when it doesn't impact them and they haven't considered the consequences of their words/actions.

So yeah. I think it's only acceptable to tell someone to stop if they're close to you, you know? Otherwise, I have to question the person's motives. I hope this answers your question (thanks for asking it, btw. I like to debate haha).

I can get behind the 'don't be an a**hole to people just because they are overweight' aspect of it. Generally, obese people know they are obese and don't need other people pointing it out. However, I have found that truly happy people don't generally demand that others recognize how happy they are, so I kind of think a lot of the movement is BS.

^

This thread really bothers me. This is a real person posted here. Has she given permission to have her image used in this thread, for people to critique it? Honestly don't you all have something better to do. Being judgmental is not going to help anyone loose weight. Each person has to live with themselves in their own body and live with their choices. I find loving people leads to more positive change then judging them.

There are many worse vices then being over weight!

Just curious (and no, I am not trying to be argumentative)-- do you feel the same way about smokers, drinkers, and drug users? Should they be embraced for who they are, or is it acceptable for society to put negative pressures on them so that they will stop their behaviors, even if they are only hurting themselves by continuing to use? Just because the parallels between being fat and being hooked on another substance--whatever it is-- are a bit too close to ignore... I would like to hear your personal thoughts on this.

Here's how it is (I'm going to use smoking as an example because I've thought about this a lot). Is smoking healthy? No. But it's another person's decision to smoke. I think it's only fair to tell someone to lose weight or stop smoking if you're very, very close to them and have a personal reason to care about their health. Do I get mad when my parents tell me to lose weight? No. They worry about my health. But when a stranger does it? Really? Is that the only thing about me that matters?

My parents smoke and I ask them to stop because I worry about their health, but whether or not my not-so-close friends smoke or not is not relevant to me. I can overlook it and still appreciate them as people; they're not inherently bad because they smoke. They probably battle with trying to quit the same way a fat person battles with their weight. By constantly belittling a person that's struggling to just stop or quit is offensive because it's never that easy. Ever. Addiction is a tough subject, and people, I think, make it their issue when it doesn't impact them and they haven't considered the consequences of their words/actions.

So yeah. I think it's only acceptable to tell someone to stop if they're close to you, you know? Otherwise, I have to question the person's motives. I hope this answers your question (thanks for asking it, btw. I like to debate haha).

Well I am not one to belittle someone I don't know, unless they have severely offended me somehow (which rarely happens). I don't like to make waves and generally try to be a positive person.

However, agreeing that it is awful to bully fat people is not the same as supporting the idea of "Fat Acceptance", saying "it's okay to be fat because we like you anyway" as if the fatness doesn't exist. I think that acceptance should be implied, not overtly made important. I actually get weirded out when people besides my close friends and family say I look beautiful / sexy / etc, because I am obese. I don't WANT to be considered beautiful when I look the way I do currently (I loathe the term "BBW")-- I want people to say that when I reach my goal weight! Does that make sense?

I think we're mostly in agreement here, but I believe that "fat acceptance" should start and end with people you're close to. If I meet a new co-worker who is very overweight, I am not going to say anything rude, but I won't tell them they look fantastic either (unless they have dressed up or something), because that would be lying. If I see them LOSE weight I will definitely comment on it though! Being supportive =/= giving false compliments, just like being realistic doesn't mean you're abusing someone emotionally.

This thread really bothers me. This is a real person posted here. Has she given permission to have her image used in this thread, for people to critique it? Honestly don't you all have something better to do. Being judgmental is not going to help anyone loose weight. Each person has to live with themselves in their own body and live with their choices. I find loving people leads to more positive change then judging them.

There are many worse vices then being over weight!

I'm sure this picture was found on the internet, and was posted intentionally seeing as it has a watermark at the bottom... I'm pretty sure this girl knew what she was getting into, so please don't get on a high horse trying to defend her metaphorical innocence.

Being vastly overweight causes dozens of health problems, including early death. Please tell me, what vices result in something worse than death?

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

Then why is there not "Tobacco Acceptance" or "Alcohol Acceptance" as well? Why are all life choices not praised for us being who we want to be? Clearly, there must be other factors into why it is not socially 'acceptable' to be fat. And telling someone they are physically unhealthy does NOT mean they are unworthy as an individual. I think a lot of pro-Acceptance people here are missing that point.

You could make the argument that tobacco acceptance was widely popular for years. Cigarettes used to be seen as positive, heavily advertised to the masses, and a way to get display social status. Heck, watch t.v. and all of the beer commercials that pop up - alcohol use is pretty well accepted too.

In some cultures, being overweight is considered an ideal. Heck, even in our own history society has praised curvy and voluptuous shapes. In cultures where food is scarce, being overweight conveys the notion that the person is higher up on the social ladder and/or has money and power. Perspective is a funny thing.

Times and tastes change, but assuming that someone who is overweight must be unhappy with themselves or unhealthy is a bit presumptive. It could even be seen as a practice in projection of one's own ideas/morals/values onto others. Some people may genuinely feel good about themselves as they are.

Like a previous commenter said, there was a program aboutit, you got to see both ends of the spectrum of BBWs (Big Beautiful Women)


I guess as long as they're not encouraging unhealthy eating habits in others, which, using that program as reference, they don't, if they're happy and comfortable with their bodies then more power to them. One of the women on the show said, "Its not a healthy lifestyle, no one ever said it was." This other woman, who went by the name Goddess Patty, showed major elation and major depression throughout the program over her weight. It was nice to see that the various spouses of these women loved everything about them, though.


Also, I kind of dislike people comparing something like this to say, tobacco or alcohol addiction. You can survive without smoking or drinking, you can quit those cold turkey if you choose. But you can't survive without food. That was one of the reasons my nutrition teacher, who had suffered from bulimia nervosa in her 20s, really laid down in class, way back when. Food is something she no longer gains joy from. She said that everyday is a battle for her.


*edited for spelling

the only thing that bothers me is the denial of huge health issues. if you are comfortable with being sick and shortening your life fine but don't deny that being over weight is a huge factor with health.

When people smoke, drink to much, do heavy drugs or eat to much then it is a strain on our health care system, I have not needed a doc in years but obese people that I know and live around me are always at the doc office.

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

Then why is there not "Tobacco Acceptance" or "Alcohol Acceptance" as well? Why are all life choices not praised for us being who we want to be? Clearly, there must be other factors into why it is not socially 'acceptable' to be fat. And telling someone they are physically unhealthy does NOT mean they are unworthy as an individual. I think a lot of pro-Acceptance people here are missing that point.

You could make the argument that tobacco acceptance was widely popular for years. Cigarrettes used to be seen as healthy and a way to get greater social status. Heck, watch t.v. and all of the beer commercials that pop up - alcohol use is pretty well accepted too.

In some cultures, being overweight is considered an ideal. Heck, even in our own history society has praised curvy and voluptuous shapes. In cultures where food is scarce, being overweight conveys the notion that the person is higher up on the social ladder and/or has money and power. Perspective is a funny thing.

Times and tastes change, but assuming that someone who is overweight must be unhappy with themselves or unhealthy is a bit presumptive. It could even be seen as a practice in projection of one's own ideas/morals/values onto others. Some people may genuinely feel good about themselves as they are.

I know that the United States (and a handful of other countries) have an obsession with skinniness, and I often daydream about what it would be like to live in a country where being plump-- even fat-- would make me a goddess instead of repulsive.

However, even in these countries, you rarely see anyone topping 4 or 500 pounds the way this woman is. In third world countries, people have to walk farther (probably don't even own a car), work longer hours in more grueling conditions, have more children, and have far less access to specialty foods we take for granted, such as ice cream or Coke. So even if someone is a little pudgy around the middle, that's probably all it will be-- a pudge. That is a far cry from being morbidly obese.

There is nothing that prevents a moderately overweight person from living a totally productive life -- aside from how others treat them. Period. That is what fat acceptance is about.

Say what, now?

I'm sure there are some people in FA who want FA to be about that. Perhaps you've restricted yourself to that particular corner.

But, from what I have seen of the FA movement (not from looking for it), it is not about that at all.

Well I am not one to belittle someone I don't know, unless they have severely offended me somehow (which rarely happens). I don't like to make waves and generally try to be a positive person.

However, agreeing that it is awful to bully fat people is not the same as supporting the idea of "Fat Acceptance", saying "it's okay to be fat because we like you anyway" as if the fatness doesn't exist. I think that acceptance should be implied, not overtly made important. I actually get weirded out when people besides my close friends and family say I look beautiful / sexy / etc, because I am obese. I don't WANT to be considered beautiful when I look the way I do currently (I loathe the term "BBW")-- I want people to say that when I reach my goal weight! Does that make sense?

I think we're mostly in agreement here, but I believe that "fat acceptance" should start and end with people you're close to. If I meet a new co-worker who is very overweight, I am not going to say anything rude, but I won't tell them they look fantastic either (unless they have dressed up or something), because that would be lying. If I see them LOSE weight I will definitely comment on it though! Being supportive =/= giving false compliments, just like being realistic doesn't mean you're abusing someone emotionally.

From my experience, it is always clear to me (or I'm always readily assuming) that people are thinking things about my weight, that people say I'm cool and pretty, but that it's a "lie." The people who don't say anything may be thinking some of the meanest things! And that, to me, is just as harmful as outright bullying a person. If you're secretly thinking things about a fat person (like a coworker), you're not being accepting, you know?

I can appreciate the idea of complimenting a person for losing weight, but it's important to recognize the negatives of that, too. I'm losing weight, and anytime someone compliments me, it just reinforces the idea that I'm "better" now than i was before, and I feel worse about myself. Losing weight has made me very self-conscious because I'm still fat and I've become hyper-aware of what people are thinking about me and it's only just hitting me now that people are always judging me (actively or passively) for my weight. I feel like I'll never win, no matter how much weight I lose.

It's tricky, and to me it really does feel like a no-win situation. I'm constantly re-evaluating my opinions on the topic. I agree that it's better to not say anything at all if you don't have something nice to say, but I think we can still take it a step further and be able to say that, yes, okay, maybe your habits are bad, but that doesn't make you a bad person, and I can call you pretty without implying that it's okay that you're fat, etc etc.

Like I said: very complicated.

I am really not trying to be mean when I say this, because I appreciate the honesty of your responses, but-- I'm sorry, I cannot get behind the fact that complimenting someone for losing weight is harmful to them emotionally.

To me, weight is directly correlated to health. I realize that you don't have to be thin to be healthy-- far from it. And if I saw an already-thin person in my life continuing to lose, that would concern me. But for me personally? I am a whopping 80 pounds away from my ideal weight. That is the size of an elementary-school child. An entire person. And even if I only had 20 pounds I wanted to lose, that's still fat that you're getting rid of. Less body fat means you're less likely to develop heart health and blood pressure issues.

Why is it so offensive to recognize that once we lose weight, we are healthier, and therefore "better" on a purely physical level? Attractiveness has nothing to do with it, really. When I compliment someone for losing weight it is because I am happy for their personal health victory, and appearance is secondary. When someone compliments me for my weight loss efforts (because I have a tendency to brag a bit about fitting into smaller size clothing), I take it as recognition of my hard work. Why should I be offended at that? I AM better now than I was 24 pounds ago. I am better now than I was when I was nearly 300 pounds. Not better as a person, but better physically. I can lift more, run without getting as easily winded, and walk for miles. I am wearing a pants size that I haven't since high school.

Of course people are still going to think of me as fat, because they don't realize that I've already lost close to 60 pounds. But that doesn't bother me. Even at my goal weight there will still be people who will make offensive snap judgements of me, even in their heads. But why should that bother me? If you let the opinions of others dominate your life then you're not living your life for the most important person-- you!

There is nothing that prevents a moderately overweight person from living a totally productive life -- aside from how others treat them. Period. That is what fat acceptance is about.

Say what, now?

I'm sure there are some people in FA who want FA to be about that. Perhaps you've restricted yourself to that particular corner.

But, from what I have seen of the FA movement (not from looking for it), it is not about that at all.

I am not sure what you are actually saying.

Fat Acceptance/health at every size -- is definitely about breaking down stereotypes people have of overweight people. Here's one instance in which Wikipedia does a good job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement