I'm conflicted about "Fat Acceptance" morally.. I find

I"ll toss out something here as an thought.

How many of us are/were caught in the cycle of self hatred where you eat, feel guilt, look at your self, feel hate, then eat more, et al. (Hopefully you know what I"m talking about here). Part of fat acceptance is accepting yourself, seeing your beauty/worth. By encouraging that, you encourage breaking the cycle of self hatred/guilt and therefore over eating.

Like I said, it's just a thought. Then again I'm all for thinking that there should be size acceptance, period. *shrugs*

Just 2 cents from a fat gal trying to find her inner beauty.

I"ll toss out something here as an thought.

How many of us are/were caught in the cycle of self hatred where you eat, feel guilt, look at your self, feel hate, then eat more, et al. (Hopefully you know what I"m talking about here). Part of fat acceptance is accepting yourself, seeing your beauty/worth. By encouraging that, you encourage breaking the cycle of self hatred/guilt and therefore over eating.

Like I said, it's just a thought. Then again I'm all for thinking that there should be size acceptance, period. *shrugs*

Just 2 cents from a fat gal trying to find her inner beauty.

Perfectly stated!

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

Then why is there not "Tobacco Acceptance" or "Alcohol Acceptance" as well? Why are all life choices not praised for us being who we want to be? Clearly, there must be other factors into why it is not socially 'acceptable' to be fat. And telling someone they are physically unhealthy does NOT mean they are unworthy as an individual. I think a lot of pro-Acceptance people here are missing that point.

My boyfriend suffers from major depression. Do I tell him he's worthless? Of course not-- if I thought that, I wouldn't even be with him. But am I going to tell him he's perfectly fine the way he is, and accept him staying in bed all day? Again, of course not. If something is affecting the physical or mental health of someone I love I will speak up about it, BECAUSE I love them. Helping someone face their bad decisions and overcome them is, if anything, the most crucial part of accepting them... because you're willing to support them right now, AND to help motivate them to improve. My boyfriend does the same with me, with my journey to lose weight and overcome anger issues. We accept each other for who we are, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the fact that we can never be better than we are right now!

First all off, not all people who are "fat" are addicted to food. People addicted to alcohol and drugs actually ARE addicts. So please stop using that analogy, it's not as clever as you think.

I'm not 'being clever'. We are not discussing people who are 20 pounds overweight, or even 40. This woman is most likely between 4 and 500 pounds. She did not get to this weight by not being addicted to food in some way, although it's amusing that you seem to find that possible. She didn't wake up one day and go "Oh crap, I put on 300 pounds overnight!" Even if she has some major health issues that left her bedridden in a hospital for months (which doesn't seem likely given that she is apparently healthy enough to pose for softcore porn), that doesn't just excuse a lifetime of poor eating.

Second, weight does not equal health. There are very recent studies (published in the JAMA -- which is about as credible as you can get) the seem to show being "fat" as defined as moderately overweight live longer than their thin counterparts. Here, read: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

There is nothing that prevents a moderately overweight person from living a totally productive life -- aside from how others treat them. Period. That is what fat acceptance is about. You are, presumably, not a medical doctor. Other people's health is not your concern. You are making lifestyle and health assumptions based on appearance alone. Not cool. Also assuming that thin is "better" also isn't cool.

When did I ever say that being 'thin' was better? Oh, that's right... nowhere. I have been talking about health, and health alone. The definition of a healthy weight varies from person to person, and no one has to stay at a specific number on the scale their entire life to be healthy. Again, we are not talking about "moderately overweight", we are talking about people who are 2-300 pounds overweight. That is not 'moderate' by any stretch of the imagination.

Um, fat acceptance is an entire movement that encompasses many body types not just the one pictured. Also, do you know the woman pictured personally? You have NO idea how or what she eats. You are making a LOT of assumptions. LOTS. You don't know her medical history. You don't know if she eats to maintain this size to have work, therefore money to feed her family. She might just like the taste of food.

And you clearly do seem to think thinness is better because you seem to think thinness = health. It does not. Also, the health of other people is NOT your concern. Your concern is unnecessary and misguided. What is it to YOU what I weigh? Is your life positively affected because you are talking to me and I am a "health" weight. No. Don't think so.

Honey, you are just full of the hangry today. How many times do I have to say that I am not advocating being 'thin'? So what if you have a little tummy pooch. So what if you have a double chin. So what if you have cankles, chubby underarms, a big butt, or "thunder thighs". I may have all these things even at my goal weight! I specifically said that healthy weights vary from person to person. It would behoove you to actually read my posts instead of jumping to create ludicrous scenarios for a stranger (feeding her family? really? how is that not an assumption of your own?) instead of admitting that you are taking this too far.

P.S. "Liking the taste of food", in excess, is an eating disorder. I am making an assumption here but I highly, highly doubt that if this woman was eating less than 3,000 calories a day, that she would be at the weight she is in this picture. It is possible to like the taste of food too much, and that is where the addiction comes in.

You know, this conversation is pointless. Thanks for your time.

Ahahahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Oh excuse me. I'm just going to go laugh my head off at how a debate where I was exposing your points as nonsensical turns into a "pointless" conversation. Thanks for your time bb! Go eat something, I think you're hungry.

Look, you apparently don't know forum rules. I stopped because I am not going to get into personal attacks.

I don't know forum rules? Which ones, exactly, am I violating? Go ahead and report me if I am. That doesn't change the fact that you butted out of a conversation because you apparently had nothing to say that wasn't a personal attack towards me. Kind of sad.

Specifically: "Go Eat Something", that would be taunting. I can accept you might not meant that as such, I don't report people. However, what I am saying to you is you are unwilling to have a debate that is based in facts. I have posted a few different links -- you are not responding to any of that info. You just keep saying the same things over and over. So yeah, I have nothing more to say.

Tell me one reason why the amount of fat in your body should correspond with who you are as a person. Last time I checked, our personalities are in no way linked to our body composition.

Tell me one reason why the amount of fat in your body should correspond with who you are as a person. Last time I checked, our personalities are in no way linked to our body composition.

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

Then why is there not "Tobacco Acceptance" or "Alcohol Acceptance" as well? Why are all life choices not praised for us being who we want to be? Clearly, there must be other factors into why it is not socially 'acceptable' to be fat. And telling someone they are physically unhealthy does NOT mean they are unworthy as an individual. I think a lot of pro-Acceptance people here are missing that point.

My boyfriend suffers from major depression. Do I tell him he's worthless? Of course not-- if I thought that, I wouldn't even be with him. But am I going to tell him he's perfectly fine the way he is, and accept him staying in bed all day? Again, of course not. If something is affecting the physical or mental health of someone I love I will speak up about it, BECAUSE I love them. Helping someone face their bad decisions and overcome them is, if anything, the most crucial part of accepting them... because you're willing to support them right now, AND to help motivate them to improve. My boyfriend does the same with me, with my journey to lose weight and overcome anger issues. We accept each other for who we are, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the fact that we can never be better than we are right now!

First all off, not all people who are "fat" are addicted to food. People addicted to alcohol and drugs actually ARE addicts. So please stop using that analogy, it's not as clever as you think.

I'm not 'being clever'. We are not discussing people who are 20 pounds overweight, or even 40. This woman is most likely between 4 and 500 pounds. She did not get to this weight by not being addicted to food in some way, although it's amusing that you seem to find that possible. She didn't wake up one day and go "Oh crap, I put on 300 pounds overnight!" Even if she has some major health issues that left her bedridden in a hospital for months (which doesn't seem likely given that she is apparently healthy enough to pose for softcore porn), that doesn't just excuse a lifetime of poor eating.

Second, weight does not equal health. There are very recent studies (published in the JAMA -- which is about as credible as you can get) the seem to show being "fat" as defined as moderately overweight live longer than their thin counterparts. Here, read: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

There is nothing that prevents a moderately overweight person from living a totally productive life -- aside from how others treat them. Period. That is what fat acceptance is about. You are, presumably, not a medical doctor. Other people's health is not your concern. You are making lifestyle and health assumptions based on appearance alone. Not cool. Also assuming that thin is "better" also isn't cool.

When did I ever say that being 'thin' was better? Oh, that's right... nowhere. I have been talking about health, and health alone. The definition of a healthy weight varies from person to person, and no one has to stay at a specific number on the scale their entire life to be healthy. Again, we are not talking about "moderately overweight", we are talking about people who are 2-300 pounds overweight. That is not 'moderate' by any stretch of the imagination.

Um, fat acceptance is an entire movement that encompasses many body types not just the one pictured. Also, do you know the woman pictured personally? You have NO idea how or what she eats. You are making a LOT of assumptions. LOTS. You don't know her medical history. You don't know if she eats to maintain this size to have work, therefore money to feed her family. She might just like the taste of food.

And you clearly do seem to think thinness is better because you seem to think thinness = health. It does not. Also, the health of other people is NOT your concern. Your concern is unnecessary and misguided. What is it to YOU what I weigh? Is your life positively affected because you are talking to me and I am a "health" weight. No. Don't think so.

Honey, you are just full of the hangry today. How many times do I have to say that I am not advocating being 'thin'? So what if you have a little tummy pooch. So what if you have a double chin. So what if you have cankles, chubby underarms, a big butt, or "thunder thighs". I may have all these things even at my goal weight! I specifically said that healthy weights vary from person to person. It would behoove you to actually read my posts instead of jumping to create ludicrous scenarios for a stranger (feeding her family? really? how is that not an assumption of your own?) instead of admitting that you are taking this too far.

P.S. "Liking the taste of food", in excess, is an eating disorder. I am making an assumption here but I highly, highly doubt that if this woman was eating less than 3,000 calories a day, that she would be at the weight she is in this picture. It is possible to like the taste of food too much, and that is where the addiction comes in.

You know, this conversation is pointless. Thanks for your time.

Ahahahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Oh excuse me. I'm just going to go laugh my head off at how a debate where I was exposing your points as nonsensical turns into a "pointless" conversation. Thanks for your time bb! Go eat something, I think you're hungry.

Look, you apparently don't know forum rules. I stopped because I am not going to get into personal attacks.

I don't know forum rules? Which ones, exactly, am I violating? Go ahead and report me if I am. That doesn't change the fact that you butted out of a conversation because you apparently had nothing to say that wasn't a personal attack towards me. Kind of sad.

Specifically: "Go Eat Something", that would be taunting. I can accept you might not meant that as such, I don't report people. However, what I am saying to you is you are unwilling to have a debate that is based in facts. I have posted a few different links -- you are not responding to any of that info. You just keep saying the same things over and over. So yeah, I have nothing more to say.

I keep saying the same things over and over because you are consistently putting words in my mouth and telling me I believe things I do not believe. So I will respond to your links in numbered points instead, to make it clearer.

1) BMI is not the best way to measure health. Body Fat Percentage, while similar, is much more accurate. That being said...

2) I. Have. Never. Said. That. You. Have. To. Be. "Skinny". To. Be. Healthy. I just don't know how many more times I have to say this!

3) "Conclusions and Relevance Relative to normal weight, both obesity (all grades) and grades 2 and 3 obesity were associated with significantly higher all-cause mortality. Grade 1 obesity overall was not associated with higher mortality, and overweight was associated with significantly lower all-cause mortality."
How is what I've said not relevant to this? I said that someone being morbidly obese-- falling into the grades 2 or 3 obesity rating for the purpose of comparison to this study's results-- is dangerous to their health. I never said that someone who put on a bit of weight after having a baby, the "freshman fifteen", or even gaining 50 pounds over the course of many years is unhealthy. I have been, this entire time, talking about people who are for their height and body stature morbidly obese.

"Fat acceptance" is all about not judging bodies that do not belong to you.

There is nothing morally conflicting about that. If you don't like how somebody else looks, don't look. Weight does not equal health. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself. Encouraging people to feel good about themselves no matter what their weight is, is tremendously positive. It's not about preaching "you don't need to lose weight!" It about preaching "You are worthy just as you are".

Then why is there not "Tobacco Acceptance" or "Alcohol Acceptance" as well? Why are all life choices not praised for us being who we want to be? Clearly, there must be other factors into why it is not socially 'acceptable' to be fat. And telling someone they are physically unhealthy does NOT mean they are unworthy as an individual. I think a lot of pro-Acceptance people here are missing that point.

My boyfriend suffers from major depression. Do I tell him he's worthless? Of course not-- if I thought that, I wouldn't even be with him. But am I going to tell him he's perfectly fine the way he is, and accept him staying in bed all day? Again, of course not. If something is affecting the physical or mental health of someone I love I will speak up about it, BECAUSE I love them. Helping someone face their bad decisions and overcome them is, if anything, the most crucial part of accepting them... because you're willing to support them right now, AND to help motivate them to improve. My boyfriend does the same with me, with my journey to lose weight and overcome anger issues. We accept each other for who we are, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the fact that we can never be better than we are right now!

First all off, not all people who are "fat" are addicted to food. People addicted to alcohol and drugs actually ARE addicts. So please stop using that analogy, it's not as clever as you think.

I'm not 'being clever'. We are not discussing people who are 20 pounds overweight, or even 40. This woman is most likely between 4 and 500 pounds. She did not get to this weight by not being addicted to food in some way, although it's amusing that you seem to find that possible. She didn't wake up one day and go "Oh crap, I put on 300 pounds overnight!" Even if she has some major health issues that left her bedridden in a hospital for months (which doesn't seem likely given that she is apparently healthy enough to pose for softcore porn), that doesn't just excuse a lifetime of poor eating.

Second, weight does not equal health. There are very recent studies (published in the JAMA -- which is about as credible as you can get) the seem to show being "fat" as defined as moderately overweight live longer than their thin counterparts. Here, read: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

There is nothing that prevents a moderately overweight person from living a totally productive life -- aside from how others treat them. Period. That is what fat acceptance is about. You are, presumably, not a medical doctor. Other people's health is not your concern. You are making lifestyle and health assumptions based on appearance alone. Not cool. Also assuming that thin is "better" also isn't cool.

When did I ever say that being 'thin' was better? Oh, that's right... nowhere. I have been talking about health, and health alone. The definition of a healthy weight varies from person to person, and no one has to stay at a specific number on the scale their entire life to be healthy. Again, we are not talking about "moderately overweight", we are talking about people who are 2-300 pounds overweight. That is not 'moderate' by any stretch of the imagination.

Um, fat acceptance is an entire movement that encompasses many body types not just the one pictured. Also, do you know the woman pictured personally? You have NO idea how or what she eats. You are making a LOT of assumptions. LOTS. You don't know her medical history. You don't know if she eats to maintain this size to have work, therefore money to feed her family. She might just like the taste of food.

And you clearly do seem to think thinness is better because you seem to think thinness = health. It does not. Also, the health of other people is NOT your concern. Your concern is unnecessary and misguided. What is it to YOU what I weigh? Is your life positively affected because you are talking to me and I am a "health" weight. No. Don't think so.

Honey, you are just full of the hangry today. How many times do I have to say that I am not advocating being 'thin'? So what if you have a little tummy pooch. So what if you have a double chin. So what if you have cankles, chubby underarms, a big butt, or "thunder thighs". I may have all these things even at my goal weight! I specifically said that healthy weights vary from person to person. It would behoove you to actually read my posts instead of jumping to create ludicrous scenarios for a stranger (feeding her family? really? how is that not an assumption of your own?) instead of admitting that you are taking this too far.

P.S. "Liking the taste of food", in excess, is an eating disorder. I am making an assumption here but I highly, highly doubt that if this woman was eating less than 3,000 calories a day, that she would be at the weight she is in this picture. It is possible to like the taste of food too much, and that is where the addiction comes in.

You know, this conversation is pointless. Thanks for your time.

Ahahahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Oh excuse me. I'm just going to go laugh my head off at how a debate where I was exposing your points as nonsensical turns into a "pointless" conversation. Thanks for your time bb! Go eat something, I think you're hungry.

Look, you apparently don't know forum rules. I stopped because I am not going to get into personal attacks.

I don't know forum rules? Which ones, exactly, am I violating? Go ahead and report me if I am. That doesn't change the fact that you butted out of a conversation because you apparently had nothing to say that wasn't a personal attack towards me. Kind of sad.

Specifically: "Go Eat Something", that would be taunting. I can accept you might not meant that as such, I don't report people. However, what I am saying to you is you are unwilling to have a debate that is based in facts. I have posted a few different links -- you are not responding to any of that info. You just keep saying the same things over and over. So yeah, I have nothing more to say.

I keep saying the same things over and over because you are consistently putting words in my mouth and telling me I believe things I do not believe. So I will respond to your links in numbered points instead, to make it clearer.

1) BMI is not the best way to measure health. Body Fat Percentage, while similar, is much more accurate. That being said...

2) I. Have. Never. Said. That. You. Have. To. Be. "Skinny". To. Be. Healthy. I just don't know how many more times I have to say this!

3) "Conclusions and Relevance Relative to normal weight, both obesity (all grades) and grades 2 and 3 obesity were associated with significantly higher all-cause mortality. Grade 1 obesity overall was not associated with higher mortality, and overweight was associated with significantly lower all-cause mortality."
How is what I've said not relevant to this? I said that someone being morbidly obese-- falling into the grades 2 or 3 obesity rating for the purpose of comparison to this study's results-- is dangerous to their health. I never said that someone who put on a bit of weight after having a baby, the "freshman fifteen", or even gaining 50 pounds over the course of many years is unhealthy. I have been, this entire time, talking about people who are for their height and body stature morbidly obese.

And fat acceptance isn't JUST about morbid obesity.