A dog you can trust or a dog that will kill?
Replies
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i don't believe there are really bad breeds, but I do not think young kids should be left alone with dogs, especially babies. Even the best trained, most loving dog in the world.
Children are unpredictable and dogs are best trained around predictable behavior. But also, when a new baby comes dogs can change, they need to adjust. They can get over-protective and bark and bark, or get aggressive with owners they previously had no problem with. The hierarchy of the pack is up for change and they know it. I think sometimes they will kill a baby if they get the chance, if they think their place in the house is threatened.
Just my theory. But enough babies are killed by beloved dogs each year that it seems like there's something more to it than accident.0 -
Even if we all have dog licences and leash our dogs and even go so far as to muzzle them in public, do you think this will help?
It is not going to help this young girl, but I still wonder if people should go on breeding `bull` type dogs?
Although I do understand that a lot of people have `bull ` type dogs that train their dogs and are very caring.
But do you trust your dog in your home completely?
Yes. We've had our dog for about 6 years, and our rabbit for about 4, and our cats. He has never attacked any of them, even they have attacked him. I can rough play with him myself and he'll get excited but he calms down as soon as I tell him to. He doesn't get beaten, he's neutured he lives inside with us, sleeps in our beds and is loved like a child. I trust him as much as I should trust any human. People say animals are unpredictable but what animal is more unpredictable than the Homosapian? Dogs don't torture, murder and rape. Dogs are more at risk from us than we are from them.
Also, if you go on this link http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/, you will see that:
In most dog bite cases, the animal in question was not treated like a family member, but more like a possession. Beaten, left outside, tied up, not trained, not neutured and/or not controlled. In most cases, the child in question was doing something that would instigate any animal to attack.
Most importantly, remember these three points when you make judgements on bull breeds:
1. There is newspaper bias in the way these things are reported. Labrador chews of face of woman? More benign words like 'chewed', 'bit' etc are used. Pit bull PUPPY chews off the toe of a baby it was left alone with? Words like 'mauled', 'devil dog' are used.
2. Anything a dog does that breaks the surface of the skin is considered a bite. So those statistics of pit bull 'bites' include grazing of the skin. Not exactly a mauling, is it?
3. People have trouble identifying pit bulls and other bull breeds, and often, newspapers will label a dog whose attacked as a pittie when it's NOT. I recall reading about a case where a German Shephard attacked someone. The newspaper reported it as a pitbull, and never amended the story when the right information was found.
Just remember, in the olden days, Bloodhounds has the same rap as pitbulls. Then it was Alsatians, dobies, rotties and now Pits. Humans are always looking for someone to blame when we are responsible.
I feel sorry for the girl and her family, but it shouldn't turn into another bloodthirsty hunt for pitbulls and staffies to be banned. What kind of family did these dogs come from? Pitbulls aren't born killers.
In Denver, they banned pit bulls. Took them from their families and killed them.
.
Didn't behaviour test them, just killed them because of the way they looked.
Also, read about Lennox, http://www.savelennox.co.uk/, He wasn't even a pitbull, but they killed him because he looked like one.
We need to look at the PEOPLE who own these dogs, ban THEM from owning any animal, people should only be allowed to adopt dogs from shelters and rescues, and breeding needs to be stopped. People should have to prove they can love, own and control a pet. Animals AND people need to protected from bad owners.
Trust me, I could go on about this for days!0 -
Even if we all have dog licences and leash our dogs and even go so far as to muzzle them in public, do you think this will help?
It is not going to help this young girl, but I still wonder if people should go on breeding `bull` type dogs?
Although I do understand that a lot of people have `bull ` type dogs that train their dogs and are very caring.
But do you trust your dog in your home completely?
Yes. We've had our dog for about 6 years, and our rabbit for about 4, and our cats. He has never attacked any of them, even they have attacked him. I can rough play with him myself and he'll get excited but he calms down as soon as I tell him to. He doesn't get beaten, he's neutured he lives inside with us, sleeps in our beds and is loved like a child. I trust him as much as I should trust any human. People say animals are unpredictable but what animal is more unpredictable than the Homosapian? Dogs don't torture, murder and rape. Dogs are more at risk from us than we are from them.
Also, if you go on this link http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/, you will see that:
In most dog bite cases, the animal in question was not treated like a family member, but more like a possession. Beaten, left outside, tied up, not trained, not neutured and/or not controlled. In most cases, the child in question was doing something that would instigate any animal to attack.
Most importantly, remember these three points when you make judgements on bull breeds:
1. There is newspaper bias in the way these things are reported. Labrador chews of face of woman? More benign words like 'chewed', 'bit' etc are used. Pit bull PUPPY chews off the toe of a baby it was left alone with? Words like 'mauled', 'devil dog' are used.
2. Anything a dog does that breaks the surface of the skin is considered a bite. So those statistics of pit bull 'bites' include grazing of the skin. Not exactly a mauling, is it?
3. People have trouble identifying pit bulls and other bull breeds, and often, newspapers will label a dog whose attacked as a pittie when it's NOT. I recall reading about a case where a German Shephard attacked someone. The newspaper reported it as a pitbull, and never amended the story when the right information was found.
Just remember, in the olden days, Bloodhounds has the same rap as pitbulls. Then it was Alsatians, dobies, rotties and now Pits. Humans are always looking for someone to blame when we are responsible.
I feel sorry for the girl and her family, but it shouldn't turn into another bloodthirsty hunt for pitbulls and staffies to be banned. What kind of family did these dogs come from? Pitbulls aren't born killers.
In Denver, they banned pit bulls. Took them from their families and killed them..
Didn't behaviour test them, just killed them because of the way they looked.
Also, read about Lennox, http://www.savelennox.co.uk/, He wasn't even a pitbull, but they killed him because he looked like one.
We need to look at the PEOPLE who own these dogs, ban THEM from owning any animal, people should only be allowed to adopt dogs from shelters and rescues, and breeding needs to be stopped. People should have to prove they can love, own and control a pet. Animals AND people need to protected from bad owners.
Trust me, I could go on about this for days!
@InnerFatGirl, you are my Hound Hero
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No breed is a bad breed when trained correctly.0
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There is NO "mean breed" or "safe breed". There are poorly trained/poorly raised/abused dogs of all breeds who can turn vicious when cornered or provoked. I've worked in three veterinary clinics & I've been bit by several small "friendly" dogs, but never even growled at by the larger dogs. I'm not saying large dogs cannot be turned mean, but there are no mean or nice traits that are breed specific, anymore than one race of people is nicer or meaner than another.
Edit after reading all the comments: If you distrust any one specific breed, or you can't trust your own pets completely, you are not a dog person & I pity your pets.
I think there are breeds that can be statistically more aggressive, but mostly the issue is that the large breeds can do far more damage in a far shorter period of time and to a far larger and stronger person than a small dog breed can. I happen to also think that some of the smallest breeds are the most aggressive and likely to bite.
As for pit-bulls, the only worry I have with them is that I read somewhere they are more likely than other breeds to attack without growling or barking a warning first. Which does not mean I think all pits or any other breed should be destroyed. Far from it. I just don't think dogs of any breed are fully trustworthy and that the owners of all dogs need to be responsible and understand what could trigger dangerous behavior in their own dogs and what increases the likelihood that any dog might become dangerous.
But one thing I thought was interesting was a dog expert who mentioned that crossing some breeds can lead to very mixed up offspring. I think the example she used was crossing some breeds of working dogs with some breeds of herding dogs. But she didn't say what breeds and I have never found anything else on that.0 -
Some dogs are more likely to bite than others. But the reality is as long as you treat it right, it won't bite.0
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Awww @innerfatgirl your dog is the spitting image of my boscoe
I wanna see your Boscoe!0 -
I don't trust pit bulls.
I don't understand the obsession in the US with breeding pit bulls. Most of the intact male dogs that I see at the dog park are pit bulls. It makes no sense to me.0 -
Even if we all have dog licences and leash our dogs and even go so far as to muzzle them in public, do you think this will help?
It is not going to help this young girl, but I still wonder if people should go on breeding `bull` type dogs?
Although I do understand that a lot of people have `bull ` type dogs that train their dogs and are very caring.
But do you trust your dog in your home completely?
Yes. We've had our dog for about 6 years, and our rabbit for about 4, and our cats. He has never attacked any of them, even they have attacked him. I can rough play with him myself and he'll get excited but he calms down as soon as I tell him to. He doesn't get beaten, he's neutured he lives inside with us, sleeps in our beds and is loved like a child. I trust him as much as I should trust any human. People say animals are unpredictable but what animal is more unpredictable than the Homosapian? Dogs don't torture, murder and rape. Dogs are more at risk from us than we are from them.
Also, if you go on this link http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/, you will see that:
In most dog bite cases, the animal in question was not treated like a family member, but more like a possession. Beaten, left outside, tied up, not trained, not neutured and/or not controlled. In most cases, the child in question was doing something that would instigate any animal to attack.
Most importantly, remember these three points when you make judgements on bull breeds:
1. There is newspaper bias in the way these things are reported. Labrador chews of face of woman? More benign words like 'chewed', 'bit' etc are used. Pit bull PUPPY chews off the toe of a baby it was left alone with? Words like 'mauled', 'devil dog' are used.
2. Anything a dog does that breaks the surface of the skin is considered a bite. So those statistics of pit bull 'bites' include grazing of the skin. Not exactly a mauling, is it?
3. People have trouble identifying pit bulls and other bull breeds, and often, newspapers will label a dog whose attacked as a pittie when it's NOT. I recall reading about a case where a German Shephard attacked someone. The newspaper reported it as a pitbull, and never amended the story when the right information was found.
Just remember, in the olden days, Bloodhounds has the same rap as pitbulls. Then it was Alsatians, dobies, rotties and now Pits. Humans are always looking for someone to blame when we are responsible.
I feel sorry for the girl and her family, but it shouldn't turn into another bloodthirsty hunt for pitbulls and staffies to be banned. What kind of family did these dogs come from? Pitbulls aren't born killers.
In Denver, they banned pit bulls. Took them from their families and killed them..
Didn't behaviour test them, just killed them because of the way they looked.
Also, read about Lennox, http://www.savelennox.co.uk/, He wasn't even a pitbull, but they killed him because he looked like one.
We need to look at the PEOPLE who own these dogs, ban THEM from owning any animal, people should only be allowed to adopt dogs from shelters and rescues, and breeding needs to be stopped. People should have to prove they can love, own and control a pet. Animals AND people need to protected from bad owners.
Trust me, I could go on about this for days!
@InnerFatGirl, you are my Hound Hero
I used to be an animal advocate (still am, but not really active anymore). It's something very close to my heart. It's heartbreaking, though 
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Some dogs are more likely to bite than others. But the reality is as long as you treat it right, it won't bite.
Does that include the rescue that you obtained that you have treated right yet bites people who go on your property?
If you have raised the dog and you raised it right then yes. As long as you treat it right it won't bite but if it's a dog who you have no idea what their background is it doesn't matter how much love and attention and "goodness" you give it if it had a bad upbringing you can't fix that.
Ask me how I know.0 -
I have a 6 year old jack russell/border collie mix who is the smartest little dog you could want to meet, not to mention lovable but he was a rescue who was badly abused & if approached by a tall male wearing a hat he get extremely anxious & will bark, and when I first adopted him he bit 3 people in my own home. Any dog is capable of biting, especially a child who doesn't know the proper way to approach dogs. I know at least 6 mastiff who are all big babies, gentle & funny dogs, and I know of staffies that are the same. We go to the off leash park daily and we've had the most trouble with German Shepherds but I blame the owners not the breed, the dogs can't help being owned by *kitten*.0
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Didn't behaviour test them, just killed them because of the way they looked.
Also, read about Lennox, http://www.savelennox.co.uk/, He wasn't even a pitbull, but they killed him because he looked like one.
We need to look at the PEOPLE who own these dogs, ban THEM from owning any animal, people should only be allowed to adopt dogs from shelters and rescues, and breeding needs to be stopped. People should have to prove they can love, own and control a pet. Animals AND people need to protected from bad owners.
Trust me, I could go on about this for days!
I lost track of Lennox's story. I had no idea they went through with it.
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I have been bitten by three different poodles, they can be nasty and tempermental so that's total bs. I keep Pitbulls and people always make faces, but I would have 10 well trained Pits around my kids before I would have one poodle.
Bahhahhahaha! As a standard poodle owner living in a neighborhood full of pits, this makes me :laugh:. I imagine this badass Chuck Norris poodle taking on the 10 gentle pitbulls! OMG! :laugh:0 -
I'm surprised about those Mastiffs. They're typically very relaxed and chill animals, despite their menacing appearance.
I'm surprised too. A close friend has had a couple of Italian Mastiffs over the years and they are incredibly gentle.
I've seen and read a few mastiff attacks but they were bred like staffies and pit bulls to herd and control bulls! I still feel like there is a reason you dont see headlines like 5yo child killed by a pack of shi tzus and king charle spaniels because they havent been inherently bred to attack. Yes the staffies need training, but I imagine 75% of the people that own one dont train them properly. Therefore you have a loaded gun in your home. They are still an animal with a ton of uncontrolled power and have been bred to be aggressive. I really think there should be some sort of fine for any unlicensed breeding of these dogs. Imagine if that was your child I bet you'd shoot every dog like that in a 300mile radius and probably the stupid owners of those dogs.0 -
What many presenters have failed to recognise and disclose is the fact that these dogs were cross breads not full Staffordshire bull terriers, my sister has a beautiful staffy who is the kindest dog I've Ben around but he has also been raised by equally loving owners! Any dog can be trained into a killing machine whether it be staff or Labrador unfortunately these gang members choose to use Staffordshires! We also have not been aware whether these dogs had been starved for the past god knows how many months and attacked because of this reason (wanting the girls food).
We live in a world of ignorant people who are to quick to judge based on stereotypes and the media. it's not the breed its the owner!
I'd also like to not that even though the girl was 14 when it comes to child attacks, I would never leave any child under 5 in the same room as any breed of dog this is just waiting for an accident of some sort!
Full breeds can be nasty as well. They can be so interbred that they're just mean a$$ed mo-fo's. There is a point where breeding needs to stop. Go see my post about our neighbors who had pure bred Germans who were nasty to my husband no matter how often he was over there and no they didn't "sense" something off about him. He had been over their house dozens of times. He could go over their house early in the morning then go back there in the afternoon and the dog acted as if he was a completely different person and wanted to rip his head off.0 -
I don't trust pit bulls.
I don't understand the obsession in the US with breeding pit bulls. Most of the intact male dogs that I see at the dog park are pit bulls. It makes no sense to me.
What really worries me is that there are probably breeders who deliberately cross the most aggressive pit bulls they can find for the purposes of fighting and for people who think it's somehow a status symbol to own a big, mean dog.
It also bothers me to see any dog running loose, even an itty bitty ankle biter. Even though a small dog can't run me down and rip my throat out, I still don't want the hassle of being bitten and I really don't want to have to pepper spray one either.0 -
Its the 'pack' thing.
I've had all types of breeds over the years. I'm hopeless when it comes to rescuing animals from cruelty.
Alone, their trained and extremely well behaved, but even I wouldn't leave a 'pack' together for long periods.
My current 2 dogs, 1 of which was violently attacked by another dog, and the other, locked in a cage, kicked repeatably by its owner, separate are great dogs, but when I walk them together, they are on the defence.
Walk them separate and their very obedient.
Also, when I walk my dogs, I pass the same people almost every day.
One has a Pit, one a Staff, and one a Rott.
Separate they sniff and talk to my dog.
But recently they were all together and tried to attack him.
Like I said 'Pack' thing.0 -
I have two dogs---one is five (Mastiff M/ with a pitt)--she is very relaxed and typically doesn't do much. My other dog I adopted from a shelter in November when she was about 10 weeks old--a blue nose pit and I she is very sweet (spoiled but sweet). The older dog has been through dog training has the good canine certificate the other is still in puppy classes. Honestly I would not leave any dog around a baby because some dogs are simply excited and could easily hurt a baby. I keep a close eye on my dogs because a lot of are intimated by pitts but they are the best dogs I have every owned and I don't think I ever have a different type of dog.
Also, the place where I adopted my dog makes you sign a contract and leave a 300 hundred check for dog training. Basically the way that it works is that you have four months to enroll your bully breed in dog training courses and must furnish the certificate upon completion to get your check returned. If not, the check is deposited and your dog is automatically enrolled in the city dog training classes which I believe the three hundred covers at least four courses (six weeks per course). I honestly believe all dogs should be trained not just the bully breed but either way I knew it ahead of time so I saved the money to pay the course at a near by pet smart. I don't think any dog should be banned but I do believe owners of bully breed should understand the breed before adopting and the agency should make sure that the owners are willing to attending dog training classes.0 -
What many presenters have failed to recognise and disclose is the fact that these dogs were cross breads not full Staffordshire bull terriers, my sister has a beautiful staffy who is the kindest dog I've Ben around but he has also been raised by equally loving owners! Any dog can be trained into a killing machine whether it be staff or Labrador unfortunately these gang members choose to use Staffordshires! We also have not been aware whether these dogs had been starved for the past god knows how many months and attacked because of this reason (wanting the girls food).
We live in a world of ignorant people who are to quick to judge based on stereotypes and the media. it's not the breed its the owner!
I'd also like to not that even though the girl was 14 when it comes to child attacks, I would never leave any child under 5 in the same room as any breed of dog this is just waiting for an accident of some sort!
Full breeds can be nasty as well. They can be so interbred that they're just mean a$$ed mo-fo's. There is a point where breeding needs to stop. Go see my post about our neighbors who had pure bred Germans who were nasty to my husband no matter how often he was over there and no they didn't "sense" something off about him. He had been over their house dozens of times. He could go over their house early in the morning then go back there in the afternoon and the dog acted as if he was a completely different person and wanted to rip his head off.
Yeah, I was just commenting some people breed for meanness, too, but bad breeders also have that inbreeding thing going on. Our poor full blood retriever just died. She had thyroid issues and skin issues all her life. My family got her from a bad breeder. Our retriever crossbreed pound puppy is the same age and other than some arthritis she is perfectly healthy. So bad breeders don't just endanger people, they condemn animals to suffer with more cancers, hip problems, and other lifelong issues. Very sad.0 -
I have a Lab/Rottie mix and a St Bernard I don't leave kids alone with either of them.
Not that I don't trust my dogs but kids are brats.
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Also, a great example of how love can really turn a dog around is the Micheal Vick case. Those poor dogs were abused and forced to fight for most of their lives, yet most of them displayed more fearful and submissive behaviour than aggressive behaviour. Out of about 50 dogs, they only had to put ONE down because she was aggresive, and that was because she was used as a breeding dog, tied up for hours and raped.
The Vick dogs now live healthy and happy lives with responsible people who love them. They have not attacked anyone, and live in families with other pets and children. At least two of them are therapy dogs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GmJNTRhafI
This is Hector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS8irL38JVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fubhULR1o3c
This isn't one of them, but it's a good video too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW61aFBPer8
I would suggest reading 'The Lost Dogs' by Jim Gorant. It is really well written, and really opens up your eyes. It's also heart wrenching, to read about what these dogs went through. It is also really imformative, and you will learn a lot about why these dogs have the rap they do.0 -
Its the 'pack' thing.
I've had all types of breeds over the years. I'm hopeless when it comes to rescuing animals from cruelty.
Alone, their trained and extremely well behaved, but even I wouldn't leave a 'pack' together for long periods.
My current 2 dogs, 1 of which was violently attacked by another dog, and the other, locked in a cage, kicked repeatably by its owner, separate are great dogs, but when I walk them together, they are on the defence.
Walk them separate and their very obedient.
Also, when I walk my dogs, I pass the same people almost every day.
One has a Pit, one a Staff, and one a Rott.
Separate they sniff and talk to my dog.
But recently they were all together and tried to attack him.
Like I said 'Pack' thing.
Yep, here is a video of pack aggression against a person. Nothing gruesome, but scary because this woman could have easily been killed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5w3X3ByXu8 0 -
I have a Lab/Rottie mix and a St Bernard I don't leave kids alone with either of them.
Not that I don't trust my dogs but kids are brats.
Which is why when my husband had his old dog and had small nieces and nephews he made sure he "pulled" her tail and ears and did everything a small child would do to a dog to get her used to it and it worked. She never bit, snapped at or did anything to his kin but when she was tired she sure as heck let them know with a low, menacing warning growl.0 -
I have a Lab/Rottie mix and a St Bernard I don't leave kids alone with either of them.
Not that I don't trust my dogs but kids are brats.
Actually good point. Protect the dogs from the brats, too! And a lot of the supposed deaths of toddlers by dogs are actually entirely accidental on the part of the dog. Leashes or other items ended up wrapped around a child's neck because some fool parent left baby and puppy playing together nicely.0 -
I think the better question is: What the hell was a toddler doing in the backyard with 4 large dogs?!
Edited for spelling.
She was 14 years old, according to the story -- plenty old enough to be on her own, imo.0 -
Didn't behaviour test them, just killed them because of the way they looked.
Also, read about Lennox, http://www.savelennox.co.uk/, He wasn't even a pitbull, but they killed him because he looked like one.
We need to look at the PEOPLE who own these dogs, ban THEM from owning any animal, people should only be allowed to adopt dogs from shelters and rescues, and breeding needs to be stopped. People should have to prove they can love, own and control a pet. Animals AND people need to protected from bad owners.
Trust me, I could go on about this for days!
I lost track of Lennox's story. I had no idea they went through with it.
Yep, they did absolutely disgusting that they did, they had no grounds to. There was so much wrong about Belfast council, and to be honest, I'd never go there after what they done. It still sickens me to this day. If it was my dog, I'd be so heartbroken and I'd never get over it. 0 -
As it's been said - any breed of dog can be aggressive. The real issue is that while any breed can be aggressive, the amount of damage one breed can do vs another breed does vary drastically. So people just have to have common sense. The bigger the dog, the higher the risk if you don't use it. Know the dog before you put it (or your child) in a stressful situation.
Why people hear about some breeds more than others is all about the media. People don't go running to the media when a yorkie bites their ankle, even if the dog fully instigates the interaction and has to be pulled off while it is gnashing it's teeth and growling. The media isn't going to respond to this story. Yet if a shephard/rottie/pit gets it's tail stepped on and does an instictive turn/nip and then immediately cowers feeling sorry after it realizes it's bit someone could be completely blown out of perportion and when the media gets called the next thing you know it is a killer dog roaming the streets attacking small children. Unfortunately that has a double negative effect for some breeds - they get a rep for being dangerous, and then people who want a 'tough dog' go and get one and train it to be aggressive. I have been around hundreds of dogs and the only kind I've consistently found to be unpredictable is the Akita (albeit I have not known a lot of them, but the ones I have known had a nervous energy that was easily triggered into biting).0 -
I have a Lab/Rottie mix and a St Bernard I don't leave kids alone with either of them.
Not that I don't trust my dogs but kids are brats.
No, their *parents are irresponsible. I have three kids 10 and under, and they adore our pets (cats and guinea pigs) and are great not just handling them but even providing day-to-day care. I wouldn't for a second allow certain neighbor kids to mess with my pets, but other ones are fine and very responsible. The difference? Some kids have great parents who are attentive while the others have parents who think their kids can do no wrong -- which leads to the kid acting like a brat.0 -
Your dog is gorgeous. :flowerforyou:0
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From the article:
"Neighbours were terrified of them and postmen dreaded coming to house"
This woman should be held responsible in some way. She had to have known these dogs were dangerous.0
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