A dog you can trust or a dog that will kill?
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No breed is a bad breed when trained correctly.
Agree.
I work at a veterinary clinic and there are way more mean "small" cute dogs than mean "bully" breeds.0 -
Judging a dog by its breed is just like judging a person because of the color of their skin. The reason that you hear of so many pit bull attacks is because it is sensational. I live in Colorado and the most common dog bites come from Labs, you don't hear about it because it isn't sensational. My husband and I own a vet clinic and I have been bit by more Yorkies, Chihuahua, and other lap dogs than I have been my "bully" breeds. Most of the time the reason for dog bites/attacks is due to the human. What was happening right before? Also, what is the state of the dogs? If you have a handful of in-tact animals, you are going to have a huge problem on your hands. Pit bulls are no where near the "killing machines" that people have labeled them. Remember, it's just a dog. They have the exact same anatomy as every other dog out there.
P.S. any dog can kill...
Evolution has shaped humans. Humans have shaped dog breeds. So there is a difference between judging a human by skin color and a dog by breed. At no time in history that I know of have people been bred for any specific purpose. If that has ever happened it has never happened consistently and for any length of time.
Yes, other humans have influenced who lived or died in their societies (often by doing horrible horrible things to each other, but that's humans for you), and people have segregated themselves off into groups and created customs and laws that made intermingling with other groups rare at times, but there has never that I know of been a people who were bred long-term (or maybe at all) to, for example, be gladiators.
While dog breeds have been bred deliberately for fighting, for war, for killing other animals, and to hunt.
Also the most common dog bites come from labs because labs are more numerous than pit bulls. If you adjust for population the most common biters (who cause serious injury in any case) are not labs.
People who work for insurance companies tend to be a level headed, statistics-loving lot (even if I'm not sure I'd risk turning my back on one). Here are the breeds Forbes says they don't like to insure:
Pit Bulls & Staffordshire Terriers
Doberman Pinschers
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Chows
Great Danes
Presa Canarios
Akitas
Alaskan Malamutes
Siberian Huskies
Wolf-hybrids
Of course again a lot of this has to do with how much damage these dogs can do, not their general temperament, but a lab is a fair-sized dog, too and statistically speaking, I'd be willing to bet with the insurance companies on this one that your average lab is going to attack someone with serious intent far less often than your average...well, let's stop picking on pit bulls and go with one of my favorite breeds: German Shepherd.
Does this mean I say put these dog breeds down? Hell no. I'm just arguing with you because I think you're wrong and I'm pesky that way.
Labs are more numerous than pits? Eh....?
Last time I checked they were. Also, are you looking at serious bites or nips? Not that nipping isn't a problem, too because it is. But the insurance companies are going to be looking at which dogs most often cause serious or fatal injuries.0 -
I haven't read all the replies, but your question has a VERY simple answer.
There are good examples of EVERY breed, and bad examples of EVERY breed.
I speak from massive experience. Growing up, we had a GSD, wonderful animal,
Siberian Huskey's (killed our neighbors goats) Chows (tried to bite every child they
came in contact with), my mother and sisters keep Great Dane's (never met a bad Dane).
My Dad (my stepmom recently died of cancer leaving him a single dog parent), has 3 poodles
all of which are wonderful, sweet, love all the grandbabies and I trust them with all my heart.
As an adult, I've had 3 boxers, one of which was extremely
high strung and started fighting with his brother after living together for 5 years, I got bit
twice breaking them up, he died of cancer at 6 yrs old. I've bred Dachshunds for years,
competed in AKC Earth Dog trials, where I got to know well pretty much every terrier
breed there is and their individual issues, and currently along with 4 Dach's, I have
2 Cane Corso Italian Mastiff's. My daughter is 16 but most dogs were here when she
was younger. One of my Mastiffs I trust with everyone's life. One of my mastiffs, my
boy Lucian, I trust him with only ours, nobody else's. I can't guarantee how he will act
with anyone, therefor I don't put him in any situation where anything could
happen. People come over, he goes up. But this is his breed's personality, they
are naturally cautious with strangers and don't easily accept them, and VERY
protective and territorial, especially an intact male, which he is, they are to serve a
specific purpose, and he does. He's not a dog I show off to my friends, he's my
first line of defense, and he serves his purpose. What's the purpose of owning a
protection or guarding breed if they wont perform their intended duties?
My grandmothers Eskimo Spits bit my 10 year old friend on the leg, requiring 20 stitches
while she was walking to the kitchen to get a brownie, without warning or being provoked,
this dog had never shown any sign of aggression in the 10 years she was alive.
There is a responsibility as a dog owner to KNOW your dog, and KNOW what they
are capable of. So many times you hear of this happening, almost always a family
dog, leaving behind owners that are totally shocked because their beloved dog had
NEVER bitten, NEVER acted aggressively and ALWAYS loved children. This is
something that everyone that says "Oh my dog is a lover, he would never do that"
needs to remember. Most of these people said the same thing about their dog.
Every dog is a good dog, before it bites someone.
I always laugh a little inside when I hear someone being overly sure that this would
NEVER happen with THEIR dog. This type of thinking is what gets us in this position.
People need to start asking themselves what if? Are you willing to risk your dog based
on your assumption that this could never happen to you? I'm not. I trust all my dogs.
However, I'm never going to risk them by being naive and putting them in situations
just because I trust them. I'm not saying lock your dog away and keep it away from
people obviously, I'm just saying instead of being overly sure, try a little caution, be
pro-active and remember your dog is an animal, and anything can happen. I have
a thousand pictures of Lucian being sweet, kissing us, snuggling, doing funny things
with his little Dachshund siblings, doesn't mean a thing and especially doesn't
guarantee he's bite proof!
Ask anyone who's dog suddenly bit someone despite being a beloved family dog, what
they wished they had done differently, and do that.
And my opinion on the best breed for younger children, are Boxers. I believe them to
be the most patient and trust worthy breed when it comes to their kids. But remember,
no breed is 100% guaranteed.0 -
Oh! Your story of the spitz that bit someone with no warning after ten years reminded me of something.
My brother's boxer had to be put down awhile back. He turned mean and my brother loved that dog but couldn't risk injury to his kids. I checked online after I heard about it and found out that boxers sometimes develop thyroid problems and that one of the signs of it can be aggression. No telling if that was true in this dog's case (he was always super hyper and hard to discipline) but if a dog starts acting uncharacteristically aggressive it might be a health issue.0 -
Also, My insurance company insured our Boxers when we bought
our home over 10 years ago and they still do cover Boxers, but not Dachshunds.
(Funny fact)
The Corso's was a definite NO.0 -
Oh! Your story of the spitz that bit someone with no warning after ten years reminded me of something.
My brother's boxer had to be put down awhile back. He turned mean and my brother loved that dog but couldn't risk injury to his kids. I checked online after I heard about it and found out that boxers sometimes develop thyroid problems and that one of the signs of it can be aggression. No telling if that was true in this dog's case (he was always super hyper and hard to discipline) but if a dog starts acting uncharacteristically aggressive it might be a health issue.
Their are many health reasons that could cause this. My Boxer that was high strung and turned on his brother also had a thyroid issue. He also had IBS, but died of intestinal cancer at 6 years. He was a white Boxer, a rescue dog. People always
said it was a good thing he found us because nobody else in the world would have been able to put up with him LOLOL.
It was very frustrating at times.0 -
Also, My insurance company insured our Boxers when we bought
our home over 10 years ago and they still do cover Boxers, but not Dachshunds.
(Funny fact)
The Corso's was a definite NO.
That is interesting. I'll beware of roaming packs of wiener dogs just to be safe! :laugh:0 -
All dogs have a pack instinct and will "gang up" if some bully dog starts something. but ultimately they are animals. And if their master(owner) isn't around to "lead the pack"... then they can go wacko.
But like ppl all dogs are different.
It is generally a problem with the owner and lack of training.
Not the dogs deal.. they are just doing what dogs do.0 -
Oh! Your story of the spitz that bit someone with no warning after ten years reminded me of something.
My brother's boxer had to be put down awhile back. He turned mean and my brother loved that dog but couldn't risk injury to his kids. I checked online after I heard about it and found out that boxers sometimes develop thyroid problems and that one of the signs of it can be aggression. No telling if that was true in this dog's case (he was always super hyper and hard to discipline) but if a dog starts acting uncharacteristically aggressive it might be a health issue.
Their are many health reasons that could cause this. My Boxer that was high strung and turned on his brother also had a thyroid issue. He also had IBS, but died of intestinal cancer at 6 years. He was a white Boxer, a rescue dog. People always
said it was a good thing he found us because nobody else in the world would have been able to put up with him LOLOL.
It was very frustrating at times.
Poor dog, at least he did find someone to put up with him, though. I'm all for rescuing or keeping any dog if a person can keep it contained so that it can't harm anyone. I know it broke my brother's heart to have his dog put down but his kids are small and there was just no way to have them and the dog stay in the house safely.
What bothers me about the dog attack from the article is that the dogs were loose in the house and it sounded like the woman knew her daughter was having a friend over and she also entrusted her daughter to have the dogs loose in the house and not endanger herself or someone else. Not fair to the daughter by any means.0 -
I dunno. I have a shih tsu/miniature poodle mix that is a rescue. She is not good with people, especially men or children. Once she trusts you, she is the most loving cuddle bug ever.. but when we are approached by someone she doesn't know well, she sounds like an attacking pit bull. So far she has never bitten anyone.. but she has snapped at my nephews, and attacks my parents dog on occasion when he comes near her treats. I have tried and tried to train her well. I try to put in her social situations where she will get more comfortable with people and animals like doggy daycare and dog parks.. but it just is not who she is.0
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My goal is to raise pits and rotties. People like to punish the dog for what the humans did. Dogs are animals that live on instinct, just as many other animals in nature are. If a man walks up to a lion and the lion mauls him who do you blame, the man or the lion?
Kind of like I read a story recently of a homeless man that was found in a shed and had been partially consumed by his pit bull. The county wanted to put the pit down for doing what she had to to survive while locked in a shed with her dead owner for 2 weeks. Luckily a rescue group stepped in, saved her, and found a loving home for her.
Humans kill more creatures for attacking or potentially attacking us than they will ever kill/injure of us. Our egos have gotten so large that many thing humans are more important than any other living being.0 -
Also, My insurance company insured our Boxers when we bought
our home over 10 years ago and they still do cover Boxers, but not Dachshunds.
(Funny fact)
The Corso's was a definite NO.
Insurance companies probably won't cover Dachshunds because almost all of them have back issues and hip displaysia as they age. I doubt it has anything to do with their aggression...I think the most aggressive thing I've seen a Dachshund do is tear up a pillow.0 -
Oh! Your story of the spitz that bit someone with no warning after ten years reminded me of something.
My brother's boxer had to be put down awhile back. He turned mean and my brother loved that dog but couldn't risk injury to his kids. I checked online after I heard about it and found out that boxers sometimes develop thyroid problems and that one of the signs of it can be aggression. No telling if that was true in this dog's case (he was always super hyper and hard to discipline) but if a dog starts acting uncharacteristically aggressive it might be a health issue.
Their are many health reasons that could cause this. My Boxer that was high strung and turned on his brother also had a thyroid issue. He also had IBS, but died of intestinal cancer at 6 years. He was a white Boxer, a rescue dog. People always
said it was a good thing he found us because nobody else in the world would have been able to put up with him LOLOL.
It was very frustrating at times.
Poor dog, at least he did find someone to put up with him, though. I'm all for rescuing or keeping any dog if a person can keep it contained so that it can't harm anyone. I know it broke my brother's heart to have his dog put down but his kids are small and there was just no way to have them and the dog stay in the house safely.
What bothers me about the dog attack from the article is that the dogs were loose in the house and it sounded like the woman knew her daughter was having a friend over and she also entrusted her daughter to have the dogs loose in the house and not endanger herself or someone else. Not fair to the daughter by any means.
EXACTLY. Very irresponsible of that dog owner. She is totally to blame, no matter the history of the dogs. I would NEVER leave my daughter and one of her friends alone with all my dogs. Not because I assume something bad will happen, but because I will never take the chance to begin with. If I had all Dachshunds I may be somewhat less cautious, but I don't. I have a breed that, whether I like it or not, has had some issues. So there you have it, its really a no brainer.0 -
Yesterday in the newspaper in the UK was an article about a 14 yo girl that was killed by 4 dogs (although there were 5 dogs in this small house.
The dogs that killed the girl were 2 staffies and 2 bull mastiffs. The 5th dog was in another room. the police shot the 4 dogs that mauled the poor girl.
Here is a link to the secondary article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2300234/Jade-Lomas-Anderson-death-Jobless-single-mum-Bev-Concannon-dogs-mauled-girl-goes-hiding.html
On the radio there was a debate from 2 respected people in the `dog world` one of these people said that staffies are classed as `nursing dogs` and are recommended for people with small children?
Also during the debate was the fact that it had never been recorded that a poodle had bitten or attacked a child?
I have a little toy `teddy bear` poodle who is the sweetest thing but I am sure some of you have staffies and bull mastiffs?
What are your opinions as to the safety of dogs around children is there a breed of dog that you would not trust?
always makes me wonder why on earth people would want to own dogs like that to begin with..and let's not be politically correct here, almost 99.9999% of people who own dogs of that type here in the Uk are scumbags that wouldn't be missed if they were mauled to death by a pride of rabid lions.
owning a dog like that is purely for intimidation and to intimidate others.
whats so bad about having one of those dogs thats cute like in the toilet paper commercial??
I see these pit bull terriers when i am out running and seen 2 of them maul a swan into shreds whilst the owner maintains they were ' only playing'...0 -
Also, My insurance company insured our Boxers when we bought
our home over 10 years ago and they still do cover Boxers, but not Dachshunds.
(Funny fact)
The Corso's was a definite NO.
Insurance companies probably won't cover Dachshunds because almost all of them have back issues and hip displaysia as they age. I doubt it has anything to do with their aggression...I think the most aggressive thing I've seen a Dachshund do is tear up a pillow.
Actually this was my home owners insurance. They could care less about vet bills, that's on me. When I asked why they would not cover a 10 lb dachshund, but would cover my big Boxer, they told me statistically, Dachshunds were more likely to bite than a Boxer. They only care about potential lawsuits, so they wouldn't cover them. Not that my Dachshunds have ever bit someone, they are more likely to lick your face off, unless your a bull frog or mouse in the back yard. Which is gross but not dangerous.0 -
I've had exactly 2 dogs in my life. I had a pit bull that I raised from a pup as a single, young adult, and then moved in with my husband and his young children, and then we had another child...so this dog went from being not around kids to being surrounded by kids, and she loved them so much and vice versa. I had her for 12 years, her entire life. Then our family got a labrador-standard poodle mix pup, which we have had for three years, and he is amazing with our kids as well. Every dog is different, but socializing them has a lot to do with it...and so does breeding/overbreeding.0
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Also, My insurance company insured our Boxers when we bought
our home over 10 years ago and they still do cover Boxers, but not Dachshunds.
(Funny fact)
The Corso's was a definite NO.
Insurance companies probably won't cover Dachshunds because almost all of them have back issues and hip displaysia as they age. I doubt it has anything to do with their aggression...I think the most aggressive thing I've seen a Dachshund do is tear up a pillow.
Actually this was my home owners insurance. They could care less about vet bills, that's on me. When I asked why they would not cover a 10 lb dachshund, but would cover my big Boxer, they told me statistically, Dachshunds were more likely to bite than a Boxer. They only care about potential lawsuits, so they wouldn't cover them. Not that my Dachshunds have ever bit someone, they are more likely to lick your face off, unless your a bull frog or mouse in the back yard. Which is gross but not dangerous.
OH MYYYYY! I can see some small dogs as being more likely to bite. Of course, I've never been bitten by a dog...I just feel like it should be common sense not to pet a strange dog...or to ask permission of the owner first. People come up and pet my dog all the time and yeah, she's friendly but they don't even take precautions.0 -
Yesterday in the newspaper in the UK was an article about a 14 yo girl that was killed by 4 dogs (although there were 5 dogs in this small house.
The dogs that killed the girl were 2 staffies and 2 bull mastiffs. The 5th dog was in another room. the police shot the 4 dogs that mauled the poor girl.
Here is a link to the secondary article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2300234/Jade-Lomas-Anderson-death-Jobless-single-mum-Bev-Concannon-dogs-mauled-girl-goes-hiding.html
On the radio there was a debate from 2 respected people in the `dog world` one of these people said that staffies are classed as `nursing dogs` and are recommended for people with small children?
Also during the debate was the fact that it had never been recorded that a poodle had bitten or attacked a child?
I have a little toy `teddy bear` poodle who is the sweetest thing but I am sure some of you have staffies and bull mastiffs?
What are your opinions as to the safety of dogs around children is there a breed of dog that you would not trust?
always makes me wonder why on earth people would want to own dogs like that to begin with..and let's not be politically correct here, almost 99.9999% of people who own dogs of that type here in the Uk are scumbags that wouldn't be missed if they were mauled to death by a pride of rabid lions.
owning a dog like that is purely for intimidation and to intimidate others.
whats so bad about having one of those dogs thats cute like in the toilet paper commercial??
I see these pit bull terriers when i am out running and seen 2 of them maul a swan into shreds whilst the owner maintains they were ' only playing'...
Because pits and rottweilers are some of the sweetest dogs. Smaller dogs raised by the same people would do that if they were larger. You said yourself that most owners of such dogs you see are "scumbags." Don't you think that has something to do with the dogs being aggressive?0 -
No breed is a bad breed when trained correctly.
yup0 -
@ innerfatgirl ...Beautiful dog!0
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There is a really horrible maiming case involving a dachshund and an infant if I remember right.
But dogs are still individuals like people, I know that doesn't really mean I should flee every time I see those short little legs churning toward me, or that I'm safe with every golden retriever ever bred.
I was just quibbling earlier because someone else tried to compare humans with dogs in a way that seemed wrong to me. While I would never assume someone was more likely to have a specific personality trait or ability based on race I certainly would say dogs statistically differ in ability and personality based on their breed.
But in the end it's still all about what the humans do. Dogs can't help it.0 -
There is a really horrible maiming case involving a dachshund and an infant if I remember right.
Haven't heard it, but it would not surprise me. There is a horrible maiming case involving every single
breed there is, if you look for them.
Like I said, there are good examples or every breed, and bad examples of every breed.0 -
But in the end it's still all about what the humans do. Dogs can't help it.
Obviously, I wish that people were the smarter of the two, but sometimes this is not the case. Like you said, dogs can't help it.0 -
Now here is about the most unlikely killing ever:
A Labrador Retriever-mix and a Dachshund killed Julia Beck, an 87 year old woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
I suspect the Lab retriever mix lay in wait while the Dachshund tripped her.
I also suspect that joke was in very poor taste.0 -
All breeds are safe when raised appropriately.
I have had Saint Bernards my entire adult life. I have had three at a time at one point. Some see this massive breed like the mastiff and fear for their lives. I have raised my animals with gentleness and pure love - never negative punishment always positive reinforcement and rewards. They are the kindest most gentle loving and loyal dogs on the planet. If you have children, tons of patience, and know how to handle a large breed animal - which can be a challenge - I recommend the breed for families with big spaces and lots of love.
A dog should be a cherished creature - God put them on this earth because they teach us humans what unconditional love is.
i am so sorry for the family - and the poor animals that must have been suffering.0 -
look at my profile pic. I don't know what breed max is, but he could have some pitbull in him and he wouldnt hurt anyone.
Lets ask why these people had 5 big dogs in one house? I highly doubt 4 dogs would attack a girl in the home un-prevoked. I would trust my dog around anyone.
This breed garbage has got to stop. Its the way people raise their dogs. Yes there are anomalies to this, just as there are in people. Raise your dog with love and care and it will return the sentiment.0 -
There are no bad breeds..... just stupid owners
Breed specific targeting or legislation is ridiculous.
Jess
involved in Boston Terrier Rescue
& had a Pittie as a family pet.0 -
Yet breed must affect personality because dog breeders and judges of dog shows do attribute specific traits to specific breeds including personality traits. Recommendations are also made to potential owners based on how a breed's standard traits will fit or not fit into an owner's lifestyle and environment.
All of those breeders and judges and well meaning writers of 'You and your new (insert name of dog breed here)' books can't be delusional, can they?
Well okay maybe but I don't think so. And if a breed can be more aloof or hard headed or calm than another breed then a breed can also be more aggressive than another breed. Which does not mean all dogs of a more aggressive breed are naturally aggressive or that aggressive breeds should be banned. All I'm arguing is that it's likely some breeds are statistically more aggressive than others independent of how they are raised.0 -
Sure breeds have traits... just like horoscopes type people... eg.. scorpios are hard headed and stubborn...
But no Breed has an attribute of being "aggressive"
I actually heard Lab's have a higher bite record than Pitties...
Its just that pitties look a little scarier so they get the bad rap whenever one happens to bite.0 -
Haven't read the whole thread, and honestly I don't want to. It'd probably make me angry if I did.
It is sad that this happened and we'll never know the cause. 4 individual dogs do not represent an entire breed. I was once bitten by a miniature dachsund and spent 3 days hospitalized for my 23 puncture wounds. This does not mean that dachsunds as a breed should be banned for aggression.
I am a veterinary technician. I have been for 12 years. I've worked shelters, small private practice, large specialty medicine, and emergency. I restrain animals for things they don't want. I poke them with needles. I inject things into them. I place IV catheters. I manipulate painful limbs for radiographs. I deal with hit by cars, broken limbs, organ displacement, etc. In short, I am more likely to get bitten and deal with aggressive dogs than most of the population.
I've worked with every dog breed there is. As a whole, pit bulls have been some of the happiest, friendliest, silly dogs I've encountered. The ones who have been aggressive have been rare and few between. As individuals they do not represent the entire breed!0
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