Side Effect of Vegetarianism?

2

Replies

  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    The major deficiency that is common among vegetarians is B12. It affects the nervous system, and can cause mood and personality changes, among other things. Even ovo-lacto vegetarians have more problems with it. Non-vegetarians can have it too, and sometimes it's caused by other health problems. You can be tested for it, and should, if you have symptoms. Of course, it's important to make sure that you have good sources of B12 in your diet, but some people can't absorb the B12 that they ingest.
  • x58890
    x58890 Posts: 14
    With the vitamin B12 issue--don't most people, not raised vegetarian as children, have a surplus of B12 in their bodies that could last decades before a deficiency emerges?
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    With the vitamin B12 issue--don't most people, not raised vegetarian as children, have a surplus of B12 in their bodies that could last decades before a deficiency emerges?

    Some studies where they actually tested people showed that B12 deficiency is a lot more common than they used to think. Since the consequences are serious, and the test is easy, I would err on the side of checking.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    It's a coincidence. I was a vegetarian for 18 years and now eat meat once or twice a week. I sleep like a log and always have. Good luck finding a resolution!

    I probably should have entitled my post, "Side effect of my vegetarian diet?" I recognize that there are long-term vegetarians that don't have issues with this. I really only included that I was a vegetarian because I thought that would be more to the point; people might have heard of a deficiency that is common in vegetarians and connected with disordered dreaming.

    Also, I was a vegetarian for 5 years before the dreams started. So again, this might be a total coincidence.
  • BethamiLawson
    BethamiLawson Posts: 3 Member
    I've been a vegetarian for 27 years (vegan for 7 of those years, lacto-ovo for the rest). I've never had an issue with nightmares.

    If you have a history of trauma it could be playing a role in the nightmares. I hope you figure out what's going on. Take care. :flowerforyou:
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    I've been a vegetarian for 27 years (vegan for 7 of those years, lacto-ovo for the rest). I've never had an issue with nightmares.

    If you have a history of trauma it could be playing a role in the nightmares. I hope you figure out what's going on. Take care. :flowerforyou:

    I have no history of trauma. Came from a loving family. Never been abused. Never been the victim of a crime. Never witnessed a crime.

    I just hope - even if I can't figure out why they went away - that they stay away. And thank you for your sweet response. :) I don't mean to make vegetarians feel attacked by my post.
  • grimendale
    grimendale Posts: 2,153 Member
    I had the opposite, actually. Since I stopped eating meat, I die a lot less frequently in my dreams. I used to have nightmare nearly every night, but the lack of meat (and the addition of a melatonin supplement for my Asperger's) has helped me sleep more soundly. I have not heard of any similar thing from any of my other vegetarian/vegan friends.
  • JennetteMac
    JennetteMac Posts: 763 Member
    I went vegetarian in 1980, never bothered with meat since (just substitutes such as soya protein etc.). I very rarely recall dreams but certainly don't have problems with them in any way.
  • kwilliam2
    kwilliam2 Posts: 35
    I was a vegetarian for several years and I don't remember ever having any negative side effects that seemed like they could be attributed to the vegetarianism.
  • jaygreen55
    jaygreen55 Posts: 315 Member
    perhaps you're eating the wrong kind of mushrooms
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,272 Member
    Side Effect of Vegetarianism = being less responsible for the death of thousands of animals.

    :flowerforyou:
    Those animals wouldn't have been alive without meat eaters. We raised them for meat and milk...
    They only exist for us to use them. You can take issue with that if you want, but your point is silly.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    lack of healthy fat in the diet can make existing psychiatric problems worse and I've seen one study that links insufficient healthy fat to an increased risk of suicide (not read the actual journal article though, just seen it referenced in something else)

    Healthy fat certainly has a role in the brain, and lack of it can affect how your brain functions, so that *may* be an explanation as to why introducing fish into your diet caused the nightmares to stop... *if* they were caused by a deficiency in healthy fats... fish is a very good source of healthy fat. Note: this is just a suggestion, no idea if it was that or not, but it's theoretically possible. The brain is a highly complex organ and if it's not functioning at its best due to a dietary deficiency, then nightmares *may* be one way that manifests itself. this kind of thing would vary from individual to individual, and sometimes things that would not have any noticeable affect on one person's brain might trigger something another person is more susceptible to (nightmares in your case)

    Also, even if the above is true, the vegetarian diet itself is not to blame. There are plenty of vegetarian sources of healthy fat such as cold pressed vegetable and seed oils, and nuts, and flax seed is supposed to be really good. The vegetarian diet isn't automatically healthier than a meat eating diet. Either a vegetarian or non-vegetarian diet could be deficient in some nutrients if you don't pay enough attention to them.

    And if you were sure you were getting adequate fat and other nutrients in your diet then just ignore my suggestion. There are other likely causes, including pure co-incidence.

    Thanks for the response. I'll definitely look into that. I know that sometimes I've neglected fat in my diet. It wasn't on purpose, I just tend to really like carb-heavy foods.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    I had the opposite, actually. Since I stopped eating meat, I die a lot less frequently in my dreams. I used to have nightmare nearly every night, but the lack of meat (and the addition of a melatonin supplement for my Asperger's) has helped me sleep more soundly. I have not heard of any similar thing from any of my other vegetarian/vegan friends.

    That's really interesting. Why do you take melatonin for Asperger's?

    I've never been tested by a psychiatrist, but I've taken the Asperger's Quotient (I think that's what it's called) online and it put me well within the Asperger's range and suggested that I test for it with a professional to see for certain.
  • happydaze71
    happydaze71 Posts: 339 Member
    Good lord!!! I've never heard of anything so crazy in my life.
    Nightmares would more likely be caused by stress, and perhaps if you at a diet loaded with crap like ALOT of sugar and caffeine (but this isn't restricted to vegetarians)
    Stress stress stress or a manic condition that needs medication yes, caused by vegetarianism.... Um no!
  • DesireeLovesOrganic
    DesireeLovesOrganic Posts: 456 Member
    I'm vegan and don't have this problem either. I sleep good. I eat lots of healthy fats though (and get enough b12.)
  • courtneyparsons
    courtneyparsons Posts: 39
    I'm a vegetarian and I DO have crazy dreams as well.

    I doubt vegetarianism is linked to the dreams, but in my case I think if I go to bed too hungry, then my body will wake me up in the middle of the night and the dream will seem more real. I eat a handful of nuts or a few crackers, then I go back to bed just fine.
  • missssminky
    missssminky Posts: 2
    hmmm... dont know about nightmares but being vego has certainly helped with my depression and anxiety.

    I believe its partly because i am not ingesting all the misery that shoots through the animals blood before they slaughter them.
  • megan1869
    megan1869 Posts: 166 Member
    I became a vegetarian around age 3-5 (I'm now 26) and I can honestly say that I have nightmares A LOT.... I dont know if its connected, but if it is I'd sure as heck like the cure!
  • billsica
    billsica Posts: 4,741 Member
    I was a veg from 1993 to 2006. I don't dream very often. The ones I have had were horrific. from being torn in half to being choked by the devil. The later haunts me to this day because I woke up unable to breath.

    I haven't had any lately that I know of. That is so weird. I'm going to have to think about when they started and stopped.

    what helped me. was to say my prayers at night. I think mostly it was a relaxing mantra to de-stress myself.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    I was a veg from 1993 to 2006. I don't dream very often. The ones I have had were horrific. from being torn in half to being choked by the devil. The later haunts me to this day because I woke up unable to breath.

    I haven't had any lately that I know of. That is so weird. I'm going to have to think about when they started and stopped.

    what helped me. was to say my prayers at night. I think mostly it was a relaxing mantra to de-stress myself.

    That's awful. >.< They sound similar to mine.

    I don't pray but I did try relaxation techniques. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to help much. There were times that I went to bed content and stress-free and still had my night terrors. This is part of why I think that maybe they have a physical cause.
  • billsica
    billsica Posts: 4,741 Member
    I was a veg from 1993 to 2006. I don't dream very often. The ones I have had were horrific. from being torn in half to being choked by the devil. The later haunts me to this day because I woke up unable to breath.

    I haven't had any lately that I know of. That is so weird. I'm going to have to think about when they started and stopped.

    what helped me. was to say my prayers at night. I think mostly it was a relaxing mantra to de-stress myself.

    That's awful. >.< They sound similar to mine.

    I don't pray but I did try relaxation techniques. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to help much. There were times that I went to bed content and stress-free and still had my night terrors. This is part of why I think that maybe they have a physical cause.

    I ended up going to a sleep lab. Maybe you should look into that? If its every night, that is horrible. At least mine are not that often, so its just any dream I can remember is a night terror. the rest are just empty black sleep.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    I was a veg from 1993 to 2006. I don't dream very often. The ones I have had were horrific. from being torn in half to being choked by the devil. The later haunts me to this day because I woke up unable to breath.

    I haven't had any lately that I know of. That is so weird. I'm going to have to think about when they started and stopped.

    what helped me. was to say my prayers at night. I think mostly it was a relaxing mantra to de-stress myself.

    That's awful. >.< They sound similar to mine.

    I don't pray but I did try relaxation techniques. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to help much. There were times that I went to bed content and stress-free and still had my night terrors. This is part of why I think that maybe they have a physical cause.

    I ended up going to a sleep lab. Maybe you should look into that? If its every night, that is horrible. At least mine are not that often, so its just any dream I can remember is a night terror. the rest are just empty black sleep.

    I have only had one in the last 5 months or so (since I went pescetarian) and even when I had them before, it was sporadic. I would go weeks without a night terror, then I'd go a week where I'd have one every night. Then maybe another week would go by and I'd have one, etc. If they come back, I might do a sleep study.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    So for anyone who's interested, I mentioned all this stuff to my mother today and she told me that if it was a B12 deficiency, it might have been exacerbated by my birth control pills. I hadn't realized, but apparently they can lower the absorption of B12 by your body?

    I found an article (I don't know how credible it is, but it does have a list of references for anyone who likes fact-checking) which talks about B12 deficiency:

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/05/19/warning-potentially-life-threatening-vitamin-deficiency-affects-25-percent-of-adults.aspx

    One part of the article which may be related to my nightmare issue was the following:
    Sleep Problems

    If you have trouble sleeping, it could be due to a lack of melatonin in your system. If you’re a regular reader of my newsletter you know the importance I place on adequate good quality sleep for optimum health.

    Melatonin is known as the “sleep hormone” and as you age, your body becomes less efficient at producing this chemical.

    B12 plays a crucial role in melatonin production, which is another reason it is important to make sure you’re receiving an adequate amount of this vitamin into your blood.

    ...

    Vitamin B12 deficiency has also been linked to psychiatric disorders, which are grouped into the following methods of expression:

    Mood disturbances ... apathy, depression, eating abnormalities, and behavior disturbances which occur specifically at night
    Hyperactivity ... agitation, euphoria, irritability, lack of inhibition, and motor disturbances
    Psychosis ... hallucinations and delusions
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Remember that just because it doesn't happen to YOU or people you know, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
  • toddis
    toddis Posts: 941 Member
    Around these parts mercola isn't in high regard. Might be around most parts but...

    B12 tests are easy to have done at the doc as far as I know. See your family physician and get checked maybe, then try sleep studies?
  • AbbsyBabbsy
    AbbsyBabbsy Posts: 184 Member
    So for anyone who's interested, I mentioned all this stuff to my mother today and she told me that if it was a B12 deficiency, it might have been exacerbated by my birth control pills.

    Did you by any chance go on the pills right around the time you started having these nightmares? The hormones in the pill started giving me very vivid dreams when I started on them. I really doubt it's the lack of meat or even b12, which is found in eggs and dairy so most veg aren't deficient anyway.
  • mushroomcup
    mushroomcup Posts: 145 Member
    So for anyone who's interested, I mentioned all this stuff to my mother today and she told me that if it was a B12 deficiency, it might have been exacerbated by my birth control pills.

    Did you by any chance go on the pills right around the time you started having these nightmares? The hormones in the pill started giving me very vivid dreams when I started on them. I really doubt it's the lack of meat or even b12, which is found in eggs and dairy so most veg aren't deficient anyway.

    I went on BC pills in 2007 and have been on them since. My nightmares started in 2009. Though, I'm still on the pills and no longer have the nightmares.

    It could be that my diet would have been fine if not for the added effect of the pill blocking the absorption of B12. But then, that's assuming that a B12 deficiency was the underlying issue, which of course I'm not sure about.
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
    About the only time I have nightmares is when I'm hot in bed.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
    The only thing I would be aware of being deficient in a veggie diet is B12 (without supplementation). Deficiency in B12 does cause neural issues. I'm not sure it's directly related to nightmares though.
    ^ This is the only thing I can suggest. B12 deficiency can manifest in many ways, including anxiety/panic/nightmares but more commonly is associated with weakness, rapid pulse/breathing, pale skin, gastro-intestinal issues and others. If unchecked it progresses to the possible mood symptoms, affective disorders/anxiety/etc., and even dementia-like symptoms.

    If you don't have a B12 deficiency (it's more common in veganism than vegetarianism, but either way can take 3 full years after adopting the diet to manifest) then it's likely unrelated to diet.
  • laurynwithawhy
    laurynwithawhy Posts: 385 Member
    OP you are not crazy! I am a pescatarian (was vegetarian for years also) and I find that if I am not eating well balanced diet I have trouble sleeping (not nightmares, but you'll see where I'm going in a minute). When I was in college getting my psych degree we studied the effects of serotonin on sleep, and basically if you don't have enough serotonin, you're gonna have a bad time. Your body produces serotonin naturally by synthesizing tryptophan. Tryptophan is very common in meat, and also common in non-meat foods but in lower doses. If you weren't eating enough of the right tryptophan containing foods, then you could have had low serotonin and that could have been the cause of your sleep issues. As the other posters have stated this is NOT an effect of vegetarianism, more like lack of a balanced diet.

    You can find more info on foods with tryptophan here: http://www.3fatchicks.com/9-foods-with-tryptophan/. For more info on serotonin you can go here: http://www.livestrong.com/article/157020-serotonin-effects/.

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