Criticism vs Shaming
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For every kid who improves their life after fat-shaming, there are many more who wind up with self-esteem problems and unhealthy relationships with food. The teacher showed poor leadership and was rude.
MOST of the fat shaming that occurs occurs more between peer groups than teacher/students. I do agree that the teacher showed poor leadership and was rude. However, that doesn't mean that teachers should NOT try to teach proper eating and health habits. I fully support educating the young on proper eating habits before those habits become lifelong. I am disappointed more parents and doctors do NOT address the situation. A fat child is that way because of his/her parents giving them the wrong foods and not encouraging them to exercise. I blame the parents for their child's obesity, and I think parents need to open their eyes and be willing to accept blame and say "Yes, my child has a problem -- and I need to help him deal with it."
Oh, by the way...the new male teacher at my school was fat shamed by a parent. The parent found out he used to play soccer in college, and the parent told the student "REALLY? But he is so fat! How couldhe have actually played soccer at that size?" And guess what? that student came in and told other students, and this eventually got back to the teacher.
That's not anything other than being a complete b1tch.0 -
For every kid who improves their life after fat-shaming, there are many more who wind up with self-esteem problems and unhealthy relationships with food. The teacher showed poor leadership and was rude.
MOST of the fat shaming that occurs occurs more between peer groups than teacher/students. I do agree that the teacher showed poor leadership and was rude. However, that doesn't mean that teachers should NOT try to teach proper eating and health habits. I fully support educating the young on proper eating habits before those habits become lifelong. I am disappointed more parents and doctors do NOT address the situation. A fat child is that way because of his/her parents giving them the wrong foods and not encouraging them to exercise. I blame the parents for their child's obesity, and I think parents need to open their eyes and be willing to accept blame and say "Yes, my child has a problem -- and I need to help him deal with it."
Oh, by the way...the new male teacher at my school was fat shamed by a parent. The parent found out he used to play soccer in college, and the parent told the student "REALLY? But he is so fat! How couldhe have actually played soccer at that size?" And guess what? that student came in and told other students, and this eventually got back to the teacher.
Touche.. I played soccer from the time I was 4 yrs old Until I was well into my mid 20's I stoppped and lost focus for the last decade or so due to many reasons and got fat as a house lol It is so easy to get fat. I wish someone would have told me how fat I had gotten and I mean grown ups, not my kids friends lol No one said a word and I as arrogant of a person as I am of course thought I was just a little chubby. I cried at my first fat pics for future comparison. I guess thats why I am so avid about it being more than acceptable to just say it in or out of context. I wish someone would have told me. It wasnt until I couldnt breathe or get up or felt like I am going to drop dead from a heart attack to see how much damage I have done
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Personally, in our culture in the USA, I think it's rude to even comment on another person's body.
Shaming is NEVER ok. Shame is an attack upon the person's inner self...the "who" of who they are. A body is NOT all there is about a person. I was shamed so often as a child that it took me many years to believe I was even worth being alive.
Criticism can be shaming depending on the words chosen. But it can also be gentle and kind. Which do you like to recieve?
Having a private talk with a friend or relative about an unhealthy habit is not the same thing. You tell them your concerns and offer help and support but you ultimately accept what they decide to do.0 -
I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.)
You are aware government funded healthcare IS supported by tax dollars, right? I support Universal healthcare, I'm just wanting to make sure we're on the same page.
The context of the comment wasn't given about the teacher and student. Was it a health class (a perfectly okay environment to talk about the ill effects of obesity, as long as it's done so objectively and respectfully), was the student even American? As someone else pointed out, many other cultures see "you're too fat" on the same level as "you have lint on your shirt" (more or less. you know what I'm saying - they're pointing out a problem you may want to fix). Did the teacher have any right to be rude?Absolutely not.
There's also a difference between shaming someone for being a fattie and sitting down with a particular student who may have weight issues and voicing your concerns in a supportive manner. Yes, I WOULD do that with someone who tanned too much, smoke too much, or drank too much (and I have. It resulted in one of my best friends attending AA, and now she's been 3 years sober and better off for it). It may surprise you, but teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They care about their students. Not saying every teacher is even close to perfect, but again, context is key and I feel like we weren't given any.
Also, I'm kind of amused at the people who say it's no place for the school to voice concerns over weight issues, and then turn around and complain that public schools need to practically babysit their precious little snowflakes for them ("help you with homework? You were supposed to learn that at school!" "Why didn't the school teach you about how to do taxes or do your laundry?... It's not MY place to make sure you grow into a well adjusted, functioning adult or anything! ")
That's the thing, though. I have never seen any of the people I know well who drink huge amounts of alcohol but still go into work hungover get concern trolled. I've never seen the people who are obviously in bad relationships get told "Your boyfriend is a *kitten* and/or he's just not that into you." I've never seen overly abrasive people or overly nitpicky people get told "You criticize others too much."
But as an overweight person, who regularly logs my calories and is losing weight, it's 100% okay for people whose last names I do not know to tell me I should check out this diet book or not eat this food or go ahead and eat this one because everything needs to be done in moderation, or whatever other thing they want to tell me. Because our culture has different attitudes about fat people than it does about other unhealthy habits.
And if a government funded healthcare system makes it in america, people are going to whine to fat people about their tax dollars, but no one is going to yell at those people in publicly funded clinics about them using up all the tax dollars. I promise you.
I see being morbidly obese and addicted to food as just another addictive situation that needs to be dealt with on many levels. I feel that food is not the cause, nor is reducing the consumption the solution, WITHOUT dealing with the underlying issue that caused that person to become obese in the first place. It is NEVER "I just really, really like to eat a ton of food". I don't accept that theory with alcoholism, or drug addiction, either. There WAS a reason why this occurred, and there needs to be some form of self actualization to occur before that person really will begin to shed weight and get healthier.
I know someone who is morbidly obese, has had a couple hernia operations, hormonal issues, etc. This person tried a fad diet -- because she saw it on Dr Oz -- and failed after 3 weeks. She was on this fad diet while I was doing the MFP thing. She really was resentful of my efforts and started calling me some derogatory terms "Hey there, bones!" because she realized she was failing where I was succeeding. She really needs to change her ways, but it is HER decision and resolve to make. I sense there is far more under the surface than she's willing to explore. Some dark corners of our mind are best left dark, right?0 -
Personally, in our culture in the USA, I think it's rude to even comment on another person's body.
Shaming is NEVER ok. Shame is an attack upon the person's inner self...the "who" of who they are. A body is NOT all there is about a person. I was shamed so often as a child that it took me many years to believe I was even worth being alive.
Criticism can be shaming depending on the words chosen. But it can also be gentle and kind. Which do you like to recieve?
Having a private talk with a friend or relative about an unhealthy habit is not the same thing. You tell them your concerns and offer help and support but you ultimately accept what they decide to do.
Not everyone is as thin skinned as you or needs coddling. I prefer that someone be honest and not worry about hurting my feelings. You are only responsible for what you say...not for how the person comprehends it. How I understand and deal with a person saying I am grossly fat is probably way different than you would take it. I know it is a fact but in the same aspect I know who I am and what I am capable of so those words dont hurt me therefore I dont take them as hurtful but for what they are..truthful.0 -
Some people just make me shake my head.
I used to find it funny when kids in school would try to "bully" me by calling me fat. In high school I just would look at them and say "My God, you must be a genius!" or in a classroom once where a boy called me a fat *kitten* in front of the whole room and they all just turned to look at me, I got up, ran to the bathroom, came back and said "Oh my God, I am fat! How could I not have known?!"
Of course not all children are as brilliant and as cunningly quick-witted as I am, so a teacher saying something about their weight can be majorly embarrassing. Are the kids probably making fun of them for it? Yeah. But you get used to that. A teacher saying it? You don't expect that, and as well you shouldn't. So yes, crossing the line. Of course, that's just assuming the teacher was like "Hey fat *kitten*" when the kid came in. I know none of the details of this story and don't care to read them. So, that's just my opinion.0 -
Some people just make me shake my head.
I used to find it funny when kids in school would try to "bully" me by calling me fat. In high school I just would look at them and say "My God, you must be a genius!" or in a classroom once where a boy called me a fat *kitten* in front of the whole room and they all just turned to look at me, I got up, ran to the bathroom, came back and said "Oh my God, I am fat! How could I not have known?!"
Of course not all children are as brilliant and as cunningly quick-witted as I am, so a teacher saying something about their weight can be majorly embarrassing. Are the kids probably making fun of them for it? Yeah. But you get used to that. A teacher saying it? You don't expect that, and as well you shouldn't. So yes, crossing the line. Of course, that's just assuming the teacher was like "Hey fat *kitten*" when the kid came in. I know none of the details of this story and don't care to read them. So, that's just my opinion.
If you are fat and you know you are fat it should NEVER surprise you when someone calls you fat. If you could read thoughts your feelings would be hurt non stop walking around in this world. Just cuz ppl dont say it out loud when they see a fatty thats the first thing they think...oh my garsh look at that fat slob.0 -
That's the thing, though. I have never seen any of the people I know well who drink huge amounts of alcohol but still go into work hungover get concern trolled. I've never seen the people who are obviously in bad relationships get told "Your boyfriend is a *kitten* and/or he's just not that into you." I've never seen overly abrasive people or overly nitpicky people get told "You criticize others too much."
I do that all the time. As a matter of fact, I believe I have told people they are abrasive before, too. Mainly my sister. But I don't just walk up and go "Hey, you're abrasive." It's usually in a context where it's called for, like when that person is grating on my last nerve and being a general ****head. Or if someone constantly is complaining about their bf but won't leave him, I'm like yeah, your boyfriend's a tosser, either leave him or complain to someone else, 'cause I'm tired of hearing it.0 -
Some people just make me shake my head.
I used to find it funny when kids in school would try to "bully" me by calling me fat. In high school I just would look at them and say "My God, you must be a genius!" or in a classroom once where a boy called me a fat *kitten* in front of the whole room and they all just turned to look at me, I got up, ran to the bathroom, came back and said "Oh my God, I am fat! How could I not have known?!"
Of course not all children are as brilliant and as cunningly quick-witted as I am, so a teacher saying something about their weight can be majorly embarrassing. Are the kids probably making fun of them for it? Yeah. But you get used to that. A teacher saying it? You don't expect that, and as well you shouldn't. So yes, crossing the line. Of course, that's just assuming the teacher was like "Hey fat *kitten*" when the kid came in. I know none of the details of this story and don't care to read them. So, that's just my opinion.
If you are fat and you know you are fat it should NEVER surprise you when someone calls you fat. If you could read thoughts your feelings would be hurt non stop walking around in this world. Just cuz ppl dont say it out loud when they see a fatty thats the first thing they think...oh my garsh look at that fat slob.
I don't understand the point of your comment. I never said I was surprised by anything. Were you agreeing with me...?
P.S. I don't know about you, but when fat people walk by I don't just sit there and think about every single one of them "Dear lord look at that fat slob." If I did I'd be a real ****. Plus, I have many more important things to think about. I think you're overestimating the amount of people that do that.0 -
How old was the child? I live in California and one of the requirements in high school is to pass a physical fitness test or take additional years of P.E. Part of that is getting your BMI. My niece who lived with us was outraged because her teacher told her she was obese. When she told me, I said that she was and that I was, too. It is what it is. I would support her in anyway i could and we can both start making better choices. Having grown up around morbidly obese people, she thought she was pretty small. She doesn't understand that there are health problems and she's on the road to becoming as big as her parents. Now that she's back with her parents, she's even bigger. In short, regardless of how many health classes she took, she is in major denial. She's only 5'3. She has obvious fat rolls and isn't merely big boned. She was never overweight as a child. She needs to lose weight. I was actually relieved that her teacher opened up a way for me to have a discussion with her.
I think that it is appropriate to talk to kids when they are older and more in control of their eating habits and exercise. It is appropriate to let them know they are carrying excess fat. I think this can be done without being mean. Just like I think it is important to talk to kids on the other end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, you can't always count on parents to set limits or provide good examples. For example, there is a child at my school who is severely overweight. You can't see her neck at all. She's completely round all over and she can barely run a lap. Her parents send her a full size lunchable meal for a morning snack (1st grade). Does the child get regular check ups? Are the parents working with her doctor? Maybe, maybe not. Why shouldn't the teacher and nurse address that with the parents?
The teenage years is really an opportune time to have a weight discussion. Who's going to tell a grown up to lose weight? Even doctors don't always. With young children, you never know if they'll grow out of it or if that's the way they're built. Except obvious situations like with the first grader.0 -
Some people just make me shake my head.
I used to find it funny when kids in school would try to "bully" me by calling me fat. In high school I just would look at them and say "My God, you must be a genius!" or in a classroom once where a boy called me a fat *kitten* in front of the whole room and they all just turned to look at me, I got up, ran to the bathroom, came back and said "Oh my God, I am fat! How could I not have known?!"
Of course not all children are as brilliant and as cunningly quick-witted as I am, so a teacher saying something about their weight can be majorly embarrassing. Are the kids probably making fun of them for it? Yeah. But you get used to that. A teacher saying it? You don't expect that, and as well you shouldn't. So yes, crossing the line. Of course, that's just assuming the teacher was like "Hey fat *kitten*" when the kid came in. I know none of the details of this story and don't care to read them. So, that's just my opinion.
If you are fat and you know you are fat it should NEVER surprise you when someone calls you fat. If you could read thoughts your feelings would be hurt non stop walking around in this world. Just cuz ppl dont say it out loud when they see a fatty thats the first thing they think...oh my garsh look at that fat slob.
I don't understand the point of your comment. I never said I was surprised by anything. Were you agreeing with me...?
P.S. I don't know about you, but when fat people walk by I don't just sit there and think about every single one of them "Dear lord look at that fat slob." If I did I'd be a real ****. Plus, I have many more important things to think about. I think you're overestimating the amount of people that do that.
Yes and no I am going by the ppl around me. They all thought in their heads I had gotten quiet hefty (thats how most of them put it) but didnt want to say anything because they assumed I knew and didnt care (half true I didnt care) Never realized I was so big. But even as a fatty when I see other fat ppl I think gross look at that fatty, and I AM FAT TOO! lol I never see a fit person and think look at that fit person gross! It is a fleeting thought doesn't linger exits as fast as it enters. May stay longer if they are in the cookie and candy isle. But it is there always. Even watching TV I think of how it is more acceptable for fat ppl to be actors/actresses. The point is..I wish someone would have called me out on my weight gain. Anyone. Obviously the ppl around me didnt care enough to lol0 -
Would pointing out the obvious be a bad thing than?
To a child when you're not that child's parent or doctor? Absolutely.
This. It's not the teacher's job or place to "point out" that a child is obese. And I'm speaking as someone who had this happen when I was about 8 years old. A teacher was not happy with some answer I gave during a pop quiz, so she decided to "punish" me by giving me an assignment: look up the word "obese" in a dictionary (it had absolutely nothing to do with the lesson being taught). I read the definition and immediately felt like c**p. The teacher wasn't doing it because she "cared about my health"--she did it because she was having a bad day, I gave a wrong answer, and she was a b***h. In short, she humiliated me in front of the entire class just because she could.0 -
Would pointing out the obvious be a bad thing than?
To a child when you're not that child's parent or doctor? Absolutely.
This. It's not the teacher's job or place to "point out" that a child is obese. And I'm speaking as someone who had this happen when I was about 8 years old. A teacher was not happy with some answer I gave during a pop quiz, so she decided to "punish" me by giving me an assignment: look up the word "obese" in a dictionary (it had absolutely nothing to do with the lesson being taught). I read the definition and immediately felt like c**p. The teacher wasn't doing it because she "cared about my health"--she did it because she was having a bad day, I gave a wrong answer, and she was a b***h. In short, she humiliated me in front of the entire class just because she could.
Perhaps it is HOW it was taught to you, not WHAT was taught to you. What happened to you was mean and totally inappropriate. HOWEVER, if it is in the health curriculum "understands the connection between healthy eating and proper nutrition", then you BET I will make it a point to teach my students what it means to eat healthy foods and exercise. I'm not talking about shaming anyone, I am talking about AWARENESS of what we put into our mouths and how the food affects our bodies. The students will walk away from my classroom not only knowing how many calories they need to eat and expend in order to lose, gain or maintain, but how the actual food they eat affects them at the cellular level. And how the lack of regular exercise affects their organ systems.
I think it's time to put the responsibility where it belongs -- on the parent who allowed their child to become obese in the first place.0 -
This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.
My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.
This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?
Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?0 -
Some people just make me shake my head.
I used to find it funny when kids in school would try to "bully" me by calling me fat. In high school I just would look at them and say "My God, you must be a genius!" or in a classroom once where a boy called me a fat *kitten* in front of the whole room and they all just turned to look at me, I got up, ran to the bathroom, came back and said "Oh my God, I am fat! How could I not have known?!"
Of course not all children are as brilliant and as cunningly quick-witted as I am, so a teacher saying something about their weight can be majorly embarrassing. Are the kids probably making fun of them for it? Yeah. But you get used to that. A teacher saying it? You don't expect that, and as well you shouldn't. So yes, crossing the line. Of course, that's just assuming the teacher was like "Hey fat *kitten*" when the kid came in. I know none of the details of this story and don't care to read them. So, that's just my opinion.
If you are fat and you know you are fat it should NEVER surprise you when someone calls you fat. If you could read thoughts your feelings would be hurt non stop walking around in this world. Just cuz ppl dont say it out loud when they see a fatty thats the first thing they think...oh my garsh look at that fat slob.
I am sorry that you have such a low opinion of yourself. I read your profile info. It seems that you think all fat people are slobs like you . News flash....they are not. I certainly am not. There are many reasons for a person to be fat, some of them psychological, some physical. When a person grows up in a shame based household, almost any critical thing that someone says to them is perceived as more shame. How does a school child learn to roll with the punches when they have this shame inside themselves?
It's not that I am thin-skinned at all. I just believe a person's body is their own private business and no one has a right to comment upon it, unless asked. And I mean all comments, good as well as critical. My husband never commented when I got fat and he didn't comment when I got thin. It was MY business, not his.0 -
I am sorry that you have such a low opinion of yourself. I read your profile info. It seems that you think all fat people are slobs like you . News flash....they are not. I certainly am not. There are many reasons for a person to be fat, some of them psychological, some physical. When a person grows up in a shame based household, almost any critical thing that someone says to them is perceived as more shame. How does a school child learn to roll with the punches when they have this shame inside themselves?
It's not that I am thin-skinned at all. I just believe a person's body is their own private business and no one has a right to comment upon it, unless asked. And I mean all comments, good as well as critical. My husband never commented when I got fat and he didn't comment when I got thin. It was MY business, not his.
People involved in this discussion may enjoy reading _The Four Agreements_ by Miguel Ruiz. Anifani, I think you, specifically would enjoy it based on your comment.0 -
This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.
My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.
This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?
Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?
You've got a strong point, but negative reinforcement sometimes can be just as helpful if not more beneficial to the person. Strict positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement is not a good idea. Sorry.0 -
I don't think shaming is productive at all. Shame and desperation make people buy into stupid fad starvation diets so restrictive they give up and gain their weight back and then some. Shame skews your relationship with food so that starving is righteous and the inevitable binging that follows brings on such self-loathing that you give up hope. Shame makes you feel trapped and helpless in your own body. Shame makes you unable to bear the thought of exercising publicly.0
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I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.)
You are aware government funded healthcare IS supported by tax dollars, right? I support Universal healthcare, I'm just wanting to make sure we're on the same page.
The context of the comment wasn't given about the teacher and student. Was it a health class (a perfectly okay environment to talk about the ill effects of obesity, as long as it's done so objectively and respectfully), was the student even American? As someone else pointed out, many other cultures see "you're too fat" on the same level as "you have lint on your shirt" (more or less. you know what I'm saying - they're pointing out a problem you may want to fix). Did the teacher have any right to be rude?Absolutely not.
There's also a difference between shaming someone for being a fattie and sitting down with a particular student who may have weight issues and voicing your concerns in a supportive manner. Yes, I WOULD do that with someone who tanned too much, smoke too much, or drank too much (and I have. It resulted in one of my best friends attending AA, and now she's been 3 years sober and better off for it). It may surprise you, but teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They care about their students. Not saying every teacher is even close to perfect, but again, context is key and I feel like we weren't given any.
Also, I'm kind of amused at the people who say it's no place for the school to voice concerns over weight issues, and then turn around and complain that public schools need to practically babysit their precious little snowflakes for them ("help you with homework? You were supposed to learn that at school!" "Why didn't the school teach you about how to do taxes or do your laundry?... It's not MY place to make sure you grow into a well adjusted, functioning adult or anything! ")
I am aware, and I am against government funded healthcare.0 -
I wouldn't say anything about someone's weight unless they brought it up. If they sit and complain to me about how fat they are and how they want to lose weight, then I tell them my advice, and I do not sugar coat it.
However, I do wish someone had told ME I was getting so fat.0
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