Obesity and poverty...

Obesity is a matter of too many calories and not enough exercise. Poverty is not going to cause that. Yes, there is a correlation between poverty and obesity in some countries, but that doesn't equal causation.

I'd put my money on a lack of self control (which all children naturally have), combined with parents who either don't care, or who lack the ability to say "no" to their children, along with the parents modeling poor eating behavior.

I'm sorry, but do you know how elitist this sounds? I do a lot of advocacy work with the poor in my community particularly around food security for families. We live in a middle class neighbourhood on the edge of an impoverished area and I was shocked to find out that most of the kids my son goes to school work don't get any meals other than the ones provided by the breakfast program. It's not a lack of care from their parents, it's a complete and total lack of resources. A lot of people are also too ashamed to ask for help because they face discrimination and shaming, as so eloquently modeled in your post above.

i am sorry to say and I will probably get bashed for what I am about to say.. but as a mother NOTHING would come in the way of feeding my kids. What responsible mother would allow her kids to eat 1 free provided meal? I would wear rags from the thrift shop and sell my body if that is the only way i could feed my kids. I would go without a phone or tv to feed my kids. There is Nothing more important than providing for your children.
If It means i need to go to the library and read a book on how to cook bulk dried beans than that is what it means.

Not knowing how to cook is not an excuse not to feed your kids

Not having access to healthy food is not an excuse not to plant some seeds in an old bucket on your porch

Not having time is no reason, you can get a used crock pot at the thrift shop and prepare meals in 3 minutes in the morning

There is always a way, and there is usually a program.

I probably sound like an elitist to you too, but I was on govt assistance when I was a young mother and I know first hand that when there is a will, there is a way. There is no excuse to neglect your children ever.

This brought tears to my eyes. Yes I agree. Nothing should stop a mother from feeding her child. When my dad left us I was 6. My mother worked in retail. He paid child support but in the early 70's it wasn't much. My mom needed to supplement her retail job with food stamps. All she wanted was help. She was denied. They told her to quit her job. She did not want to be completely dependent on the gov't so she refused. I heard her crying about how she didn't know how she was gonna make it. Finally in desperation she went to the local grocery store and got food on credit. It was the most humbling/humiliating thing she ever had to do. (she told me this years later). . But she had no other choice. For years I would take money down to that man, not knowing what I was paying for. It took her years to pay it all off. So please don't say mothers have no choice. I would sell my body to feed my kids. My mother went through hell to survive because that is what mothers do!!!!

What a beautiful story and a strong mother! You are blessed!!

I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.

Now by my calculations:

Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122

So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.

Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.

In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.

If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.

Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.

So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.

Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?

It's amazing that everyone thinks its just so easy.

Maybe she is disabled.

Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care.

Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.

Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom.

Maybe her husband left her.

Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him.

Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?

What the hell difference does it make?

"Maybe she is disabled. ?" - A- then she is eligible for disability - they said income assistance, how do you know it isn't disability?
"Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care. " -A - My sister i low income with a disabled child and she cannot afford full time care, there are programs to assist families in that - they still would be considered poverty level. Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.- *key word.. temporarily. - How do you know this mother isn't in a temporary situation?
"Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom" - I have a friend who was in that situation a well, and she receiving additional aid, and I don't even believe it was social security because he was not a legal resident of the country. - Do you know how much Social Security survivor benefits pay? Not much!
"Maybe her husband left her"- A- Who says you need a husband to be successful? I don't think the woman activists would appreciate that comment. I didn't say she needed a husband to be successful, Maybe she was a stay at home mom and he recently left and she si trying to get back on her feet.
"Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him." - The same sister who has a disabled child also left an abusive x , she went to the woman's shelter .. they exist to get abused women on their feet. And usually its through income assistance programs.......
"Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?"- That seems like a stretch. $8.00 an hour 40 hours a week. $320.00 a week. $1280 a month - not much of a stretch.


Remember - I WAS on food stamps and WiC, that is why I know that there is always a way.
It isn't always some tragic incident, Some people ARE just laze, Some people ARe just unmotivated, SOme people DO just prefer to buy the air jordans and stock up on hot dogs and cheese puffs. Some people DO fake disability and leech the system. Not everybody ... but Probably half. Why do we always try to come up with excuses? Is this a healthy way to improve society?

"Maybe she is disabled. ?" - A- then she is eligible for disability - they said income assistance, how do you know it isn't disability?

"Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care. " -A - My sister i low income with a disabled child and she cannot afford full time care, there are programs to assist families in that - they still would be considered poverty level and wouldn't the program include some type of social program anyways (tax payer money)

Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.- *key word.. temporarily. - How do you know this mother isn't in a temporary situation?

"Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom" - I have a friend who was in that situation a well, and she receiving additional aid, and I don't even believe it was social security because he was not a legal resident of the country. - Do you know how much Social Security survivor benefits pay? Not much! My mother in law's live in boyfriend died suddenly, she received NOTHING from the government when he died, they weren't married.

"Maybe her husband left her"- A- Who says you need a husband to be successful? I don't think the woman activists would appreciate that comment. I didn't say she needed a husband to be successful, Maybe she was a stay at home mom and he recently left and she si trying to get back on her feet.

"Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him." - The same sister who has a disabled child also left an abusive x , she went to the woman's shelter .. they exist to get abused women on their feet. And usually its through income assistance programs.......

"Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?"- That seems like a stretch. $8.00 an hour 40 hours a week. $320.00 a week. $1280 a month - not much of a stretch.

I was on food stamps and WIC once too for 6 months. Some people ARE lazy and some ARE unmotivated, but saying "why doesn't she get a job" does not fix the solution when you dont know what "her" story is. Maybe she's been on benefits for 1 month...you dont know!

Is everyone saying that the people here who are obese are lazy?

I didn't see anything that was remotely close to that.

I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.

Now by my calculations:

Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122

So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.

Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.

In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.

If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.

Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.

So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.

Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?

It's amazing that everyone thinks its just so easy.

Maybe she is disabled.

Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care.

Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.

Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom.

Maybe her husband left her.

Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him.

Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?

What the hell difference does it make?

"Maybe she is disabled. ?" - A- then she is eligible for disability - they said income assistance, how do you know it isn't disability?
"Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care. " -A - My sister i low income with a disabled child and she cannot afford full time care, there are programs to assist families in that - they still would be considered poverty level. Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.- *key word.. temporarily. - How do you know this mother isn't in a temporary situation?
"Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom" - I have a friend who was in that situation a well, and she receiving additional aid, and I don't even believe it was social security because he was not a legal resident of the country. - Do you know how much Social Security survivor benefits pay? Not much!
"Maybe her husband left her"- A- Who says you need a husband to be successful? I don't think the woman activists would appreciate that comment. I didn't say she needed a husband to be successful, Maybe she was a stay at home mom and he recently left and she si trying to get back on her feet.
"Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him." - The same sister who has a disabled child also left an abusive x , she went to the woman's shelter .. they exist to get abused women on their feet. And usually its through income assistance programs.......
"Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?"- That seems like a stretch. $8.00 an hour 40 hours a week. $320.00 a week. $1280 a month - not much of a stretch.


Remember - I WAS on food stamps and WiC, that is why I know that there is always a way.
It isn't always some tragic incident, Some people ARE just laze, Some people ARe just unmotivated, SOme people DO just prefer to buy the air jordans and stock up on hot dogs and cheese puffs. Some people DO fake disability and leech the system. Not everybody ... but Probably half. Why do we always try to come up with excuses? Is this a healthy way to improve society?

"Maybe she is disabled. ?" - A- then she is eligible for disability - they said income assistance, how do you know it isn't disability?

"Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care. " -A - My sister i low income with a disabled child and she cannot afford full time care, there are programs to assist families in that - they still would be considered poverty level and wouldn't the program include some type of social program anyways (tax payer money)

Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.- *key word.. temporarily. - How do you know this mother isn't in a temporary situation?

"Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom" - I have a friend who was in that situation a well, and she receiving additional aid, and I don't even believe it was social security because he was not a legal resident of the country. - Do you know how much Social Security survivor benefits pay? Not much! My mother in law's live in boyfriend died suddenly, she received NOTHING from the government when he died, they weren't married.

"Maybe her husband left her"- A- Who says you need a husband to be successful? I don't think the woman activists would appreciate that comment. I didn't say she needed a husband to be successful, Maybe she was a stay at home mom and he recently left and she si trying to get back on her feet.

"Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him." - The same sister who has a disabled child also left an abusive x , she went to the woman's shelter .. they exist to get abused women on their feet. And usually its through income assistance programs.......

"Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?"- That seems like a stretch. $8.00 an hour 40 hours a week. $320.00 a week. $1280 a month - not much of a stretch.

I was on food stamps and WIC once too for 6 months. Some people ARE lazy and some ARE unmotivated, but saying "why doesn't she get a job" does not fix the solution when you dont know what "her" story is. Maybe she's been on benefits for 1 month...you dont know!

I didn't say "why doesn't she get a job" (she was quoting somebody else) , My response was to her handing out excuses. We all know that there are programs everywhere to help people in most of these cases.

You logic is faulty. Junk food is cheaper per calorie. Sure. But don't we all know that it's too many calories that make you fat? Isn't that why we're all here - on a calorie counting site?

If people living on junk food just ate less of it, they'd not be obese. Skip the soda. Have a filet-o-fish instead of a double quarter pounder with cheese. Have small fries instead of large. And then don't spend your entire evening sat on the couch eating snack food. A little impulse control goes a long way.

Even if you can't afford to eat anything but McDonalds morning, noon and night, you can still moderate your calorie intake and not get fat.

Unless someone is holding you down and force feeding you, you can't absolve yourself of responsibility for your diet.

/Thread

You logic is faulty. Junk food is cheaper per calorie. Sure. But don't we all know that it's too many calories that make you fat? Isn't that why we're all here - on a calorie counting site?

If people living on junk food just ate less of it, they'd not be obese. Skip the soda. Have a filet-o-fish instead of a double quarter pounder with cheese. Have small fries instead of large. And then don't spend your entire evening sat on the couch eating snack food. A little impulse control goes a long way.

Even if you can't afford to eat anything but McDonalds morning, noon and night, you can still moderate your calorie intake and not get fat.

Unless someone is holding you down and force feeding you, you can't absolve yourself of responsibility for your diet.

This is true and if you look at VERY poverty stricken countries, their children are literally starving to death....not obese.

There are so many factors that can go into obesity and poverty being correlated. There's a remarkable article about junk food and how its prevalence changes our expectations for food taste by aiming for a 'bliss point' (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) and if we have too many kids eating like this, it is going to completely skew how they grow up and eat.

There's also Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs -- you have to remember that if you're having trouble making ends meet, it can be almost impossible to look farther ahead. It's easy for us to sit here in relative comfort and make proclamations about them having to 'bootstrap' it up and such, and it's definitely good advice to pick yourself up, educate yourself, make better choices, etc. But the theory goes that if you don't have that basic bottom of the pyramid met, it's going to be virtually impossible for most people (there are always exceptions) to start looking at climbing up. That is where society and community come in -- that's where we need to have programs, in my opinion, that continue to help.

What we need though are also programs that aren't kowtowing to politicized machinations selling poor nutrition in the guise of proper nutrition.

When you're broke, fresh foods are often too difficult (or at least it seems that way) -- first of all, they can be harder to find in good quality where they live; secondly, they are perishable and not using them quickly can lead to waste which they cannot afford; thirdly, they take time to prepare. If you're working 2+ jobs or 1 job with long, hard hours, it may be difficult to go to the store multiple times a week to keep getting fresh food (getting it all at once may work but may not - it may go bad), it also may be difficult to find the energy to cook and prepare. Often education level is linked to poverty (often, not always), so if you're coming from a more ignorant standpoint (I use ignorant in its true meaning. It does not equal stupid -- it means you do not know) on a topic such as good food choices, how to make an easy meal, etc. it can feel overwhelming to get the knowledge needed. It's easier to get something pre-packaged that won't go bad, that can be stocked up on every time there's a major sale, etc.

It is a hard, hard problem with not too many easy solutions. At its heart though, I think we need to care about it as a society and be willing to work toward improving for everyone, and if we all go into it with that in mind, we can make a difference and reverse this trend.

Obesity is a matter of too many calories and not enough exercise. Poverty is not going to cause that. Yes, there is a correlation between poverty and obesity in some countries, but that doesn't equal causation.

I'd put my money on a lack of self control (which all children naturally have), combined with parents who either don't care, or who lack the ability to say "no" to their children, along with the parents modeling poor eating behavior.

Yes!! This exactly

I will probably be bashed for this... HOWEVER, I'm putting it out there anyway.

I agree with you 110% and have thought for a very long time, that we need to find a way to help the people we have living here in our own country, and slow down on helping the other countries. Part of the reason we are falling apart as a country is because we have stopped looking inside and taking care of our own. We MUST fix the things that are broken here before we can go to other countries and fix what is broken.

When we were a stronger country, helping others was vitally important, but in doing so we have lost sight of our own countries needs! I find it extremely sad.

Ok, I'm going to get off of my soap box, because I could go on forever with this :sad:

YES!!! This is SO true!!

We have people in our own country starving, and without homes and good educations, but we are spending trillions of dollars to help other countries feed their people and educate them. We do need to look at our own community first... I hope our children learn from our mistakes...

stop making EXCUSES and start making RESULTS. you are who YOU WANT TO BE. correlate that. slackers

This sounds like an infomercial, and makes my brain so sad. :sad:

Back to the topic at hand though. This is an excellent thread! Good Job OP!

I worry about some of the posters here that are oversimplifying a very complex problem. Yes, it is easy to find cheep healthy food to feed a family on a budget, but not everywhere and only if you know what you are looking for. Some places just don't have the resources to access all this great food you are talking about. That doesn't get the parents off the hook for filling their shopping carts with garbage though. I understand what it is like to simply not know how to provide healthy food for your family, so you buy what you know they like instead. Shocking as this may sound, I wasn't born knowing how to shop and cook. I had to learn, and it is tough when you are working long hours and come home physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted. There is a lot of conflicting language out there that is designed to make you feel good about purchasing products that are processed and full of sugar/fat. I think increasing education, for both parents and children who are on assistance, about shopping and cooking techniques is a big step to finding a solution.

You logic is faulty. Junk food is cheaper per calorie. Sure. But don't we all know that it's too many calories that make you fat? Isn't that why we're all here - on a calorie counting site?

If people living on junk food just ate less of it, they'd not be obese. Skip the soda. Have a filet-o-fish instead of a double quarter pounder with cheese. Have small fries instead of large. And then don't spend your entire evening sat on the couch eating snack food. A little impulse control goes a long way.

Even if you can't afford to eat anything but McDonalds morning, noon and night, you can still moderate your calorie intake and not get fat.

Unless someone is holding you down and force feeding you, you can't absolve yourself of responsibility for your diet.

Amen!

It doesn't cost anything to take a walk. If your budget is tight, eating less in general is going to help with that. Of course this could be that the people I see, like me, with weight issues are not people living at the poverty level, but rather middle class level with enough money to pay for an SUV, take vacations to Hawaii, have premium cable and go out to eat on a regular basis. I'm sorry but if you can afford Showtime and HBO and trips to Disneyland, then you can afford to eat healthier.

I go to the 99 Cent Store regularly to help my food budget and while there is a lot of cheap junk food there, I can also get tuna (canned in water), whole wheat pita bread, lettuce, spinach, mangoes, tomatoes, bananas, apples, oranges, carrot sticks, sweet potatoes, spinach, frozen veggies, low cal dressing, salsa, potatoes, eggs, skim milk, whole wheat pasta, pasta sauce, string cheese, peanut butter, oatmeal, raisins, bottled water, Crystal Light packets for my water, trail mix as well as plastic ware containers to carry my food to work for lunch, plus purchasing dry goods like toilet paper, paper towels, sandwich bags, garbage bag, laundry and dish detergent, kitchen utensils and the like to allow me more money for expensive items like chicken and fresh fish at a regular grocery store. (I know some people get nervous getting produce from there because it doesn't look pretty. But having grown up with veggies growing in my backyard, I can tell you most of it doesn't look pretty. Regular stores just pick the iced looking ones and then leave the rest for stores like this one.)

Yes, some people lack the education to pick the ideal foods, but with free apps like this one around, there's no reason to not at least eat the right amount of calories to lose weight. Cost only comes in when dealing with the quality of those calories, but for purely weight loss reasons, it doesn't matter where the calories come from, just how many you consume.

when I was in Morroco, I was surprised by how much cheaper it was to eat healthy than to eat fast food. this was during the Arab spring when morrocans were peacefully demonstrating against there king. I came back thinking well maybe there is a correlation but not really, it just take more effort to eat healthy here and sometimes hard when you're trying to make ends meet. mass production and automation won't make it any easier but eating healthy even when you're poor can be done. anything is possible just takes more planning.

I work with a very poor community and the problem I see is that at the first of the month they have so much money in food stamps. Now to feed a family of 4 they have to budget that money to last the month, so say they live in a small apartment with only limited food storage. They can buy a few pieces of bulk food and fresh meats and produce. This has to last the month. It's not prudent to spend your EBT money on produce that could rot quickly. You can buy shelf stable food and know that it will last the month. Milk will spoil quickly, so it's easier to buy juice and soda. You could buy sweet potatoes, but those will rot if not used right away potato chips last forever.

Theres so many factors as to why we are seeing obesity with poverty including manufacturers targeting the lower income. This is not only a problem in America. Many emerging post-colonial countries are also seeing a section of their poor population now obese.

You could get a PhD studying this.

They don't have to use it all at one time. In fact any unused money goes to the next month.

I completely agree with you. It's much harder for poor families to buy healthy, good-quality food. I went through this myself.

I live in an impoverished area in the foothills of East Tennessee. There are folks selling produce every mile down the road and a farmers market in every community. That's the way a lot of people make $. There are 5 walmarts within 20 miles of my house and two amish stores on the way home. The amish stores carry bulk items too.

I can't speak for inner city areas but this is what we have out in the country.

While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.

Are there a lot of bulk grocers, farmers markets and amish shops in inner cities or in impoverished rural areas in the Deep South or Appalachia?