Obesity and poverty...
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I will give a perspective from someone on foodstamps.
I agree with 100% about money is the reason for obesity, along with education. If you don't know better you can't do better.
But honestly. I have a family of 3, and for an entire month I get $85 dollars. I get WIC as well, and they give me ten dollars in fresh fruit. I recently bought a bag of grapes (and I had to take some out, like, half the bag) and 3 plums. For $10. It's very VERY tough to get by on what we have and a lot of the time, I can't choose the healthiest choices because I simply cannot afford it.
This also goes back to choices. If you buy the fruit in season it's cheaper. Bananas are dirt cheap right now. The average medium banana is 4.2 ounces. The most expensive store I shop at has them .59 a lb. For 1o.oo you could have gotten about 60 bananas..... Strawberries are coming into season and at least 4 stores in my area have them BOGO free with cost of 3.00-3.50.... that's 6 large containers of strawberries with change from your 1o.oo.
Grapes aren't in season yet... .neither are plums... you're going to pay premium for those and your ten bucks isn't going to go very far.0 -
It's nice to see this topic on here.
I think it's great people are sharing & hearing of the experience of being on foodstamps/using WIC. Bananas, fyi, are always imported if anyone's trying to reduce their carbon footprint too.0 -
you are right. it does.Heart disease kills 600,000 people in the United States per year. I'm not sure where all this calculating in majority of people, micro/macro/fiber thing comes in. It wasn't a loaded question. I do not understand what you are trying to say?
heart disease is a major killer. In most cases it is preventable. I do know Congestive heart failure can be severely hereditary and people who exercise and live a healthy lifestyle can still get it. It is very sad, it isnt like diabetes which is preventable(not type 1)
Each macronutrient has its own specific function within the human body. even the subcategories do.
Proteins
-amino acids
carbs
-sucrose
-lactose
-glucose
-etc
fats
-saturated,
-mono unsat
-poly unsat
-trans fat(there is nothing good that comes from this)
-Medium chained triglycerides(this has less calories than the normal fat)
Each of the fats have their own individual function and it is special. Your body can synthesize certain amino acids but others must be obtained through diet. which are the essential amino acids.
Losing weight is broken up into 2 main factors.
water weight loss(electrolyte water weight and glycogen water weight)
mass loss(fat free and non fat free)
what creates a difference
macronutrient intake.
Exercise
fuel availability(how much fat do you have vs muscle?)
Fat has a function in the body and it is actually more important than muscle in terms of physiological use
Fast food is calorie dense. Yes you can get fat off of it. just like you can get fat off eating too many apples.
They all contain the same amount of energy with the exception of MCT. 20g of fat from a mcdonalds burger wont differ from 20g of fat from an avocado in terms of energy.
They both will give you 180 calories worth of energy.
People have said that saturated fat is the cause of heart disease and increased cholesterol.
There is also alot of talk about how high cholesterol will kill you. In america we are one of the few countries who have to worry about it.
look up the french paradox, talks about high cholesterol in countries with very low risk of heart disease
france-205 avg
colombia-245 avg
They have done countless studies in that past 20+ years that for some reason the media does not talk about. What I am about to say is the same concept as carbs to diabetes as well.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874827/
the dash diet went low in fat and it improved the lipid panel and insulin sensitivity. low saturated fat etc
Therefore low fat prevent heart disease and diabetes
but wait! they left something out. the people were in a hypocaloric state
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974193/
here is one example for instance. it says a hypocaloric carbohydrate restricted diet results in a better lipid panel, despite them taking saturated fat
Why are they getting better lipid panel off while taking saturated fat? Doesnt that cause heart disease?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949959/
this is one talking about low fat vs low carb
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2780863/
low fat vs low carb in decreasing insulin resistance. Why is that happening? Doesnt high carbs increase insulin resistance which causes fat?
fat is associated with heart disease
carbs are associated with diabetes
but the media forgets to add that they are susceptible if they are in a hypercaloric state.
Being hypercaloric means you are gaining weight. taking in more energy than required. this is hard on your whole body. Fat is not a bad thing. fat is there to cushion your organs and prevent damage. Excess can also cause strain on your joints, heart, etc.
You have to look at the true underlying cause. People that come up with these conclusions are not looking at all the factors and influences of the study but associating it with one single thing.
While association can play a role, that does not mean it is the cause. It shows a possibility, but they already ruled that out.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/
This is a study in regards to dieting with a variety of macronutrient composition and weight loss. first time i have seen this one.
Calorie is a calorie
There are other factors when it comes into macronutrient thermal effect and what it takes to process it but I am not going to get into that. I can type so much crap in regards to nutrition I have learned. Maybe it is about time I do so when I am off of nursing school for the summer.0 -
**This is off topic of obesity & poverty, but I had to respond. **
Uhhh, show me where the government is paying for birth control?
I pay for private insurance, so just in case of an emergency I'm covered - but in practical terms, I have a $10 copay on my birth control.
In nearly half of all states, when a woman paid for her own private health insurance, her plan Refused to cover her birth control medication until the Affordable Care Act changes. BTW, Viagra is covered on every single plan. So let's talk about "keeping your legs closed," mentality, accept your body's role in society and deal with it. That seems to be the mentality of many politicians who take Viagra but feel birth control is expendable.
Thanks to changes in insurance legislation, all plans must cover birth control. Because 98% of the population uses a method of birth control, and we thank our lucky stars we don't live in a nation of JimBob & Michelle Duggars, it's considered prevalent enough that there will soon be no copay on birth control. But the government isn't paying for it. I still will pay for my private insurance, but I simply won't have a copay.I see alot talk about those who are receiving food stamps and other types of government assistance. But what about those families who do not qualify for any state assistance but do not make enough money to thrive on. I don't think the issue is just as simple as to stop having babies especially when some politicians are determined to restrict access to birth control. I think there are larger issues at play.
Im going off topic. No politician is trying to limit access to birth control. they just don't think the Federal Gov't should subsidize peoples sex habits. Condoms are sold in drug stores and there is a variety of other forms of BC women can take.
again I agee. It's not the governments responsibility to make sure you don't get knocked up its yours. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE. if you don't want babies don't have unprotected sex.
This is targeted towards single women of course. First, none of those methods are 100% guaranteed to not produce a baby. Let's not even get into the crazy side effects many of these birth control methods have on women. Second, I find it highly unlikely that married folks are going to be using protection (isn't that a benefit of being married) so I feel that point is mute under these circumstances. My point is that the issue goes deeper than to just stop reproducing children. he issue is way more complex than that.
Of course they aren't 100% accurate. But the pill is 99%. Condoms don't have any side effects. and as for married couples not using BC, what do you think we stop having sex. Or do we just have unlimited children. I've been married for 25 years and until my husbands surgery a few years ago I was on the pill. And I have friends (married) who only use condoms. Your argument isn't valid.
Maybe my argument is not valid to you and your situation but that does not apply to everyone. I have two kids, both of them are birth control babies (two different forms of BC I might add). I almost had third (also while on birth control) but the damn thing implanted in my Fallopian tube and just about killed me. Finally, after my having my second I had my tubes tied. and I had to CONVINCE the doctor to perform the procedure because I'm "young". That is alot to go through to just stop having babies. So my point is valid.
I reiterate my original statement, I don't think the issue is just as simple as to stop having babies especially when some politicians are determined to restrict access to birth control. I think there are larger issues at play.
again I say politicians are NOT trying to limit access to birth control. They just don't think the gov't should pay for it. And I agree. It is not the governments responsibility to make sure we don't conceive. That lies within us.0 -
if anyone has Netflix, there are great documentaries about the food industry. There's a book called sugar, fat, salt that shows how the fast food industry turns diners in to addicts thanks to what they put in the food. Might be interesting!0
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Something interesting from the CDC
Among men, obesity prevalence is generally similar at all income levels, however, among non-Hispanic black and Mexican-American men those with higher income are more likely to be obese than those with low income.
Higher income women are less likely to be obese than low income women, but most obese women are not low income.
There is no significant trend between obesity and education among men. Among women, however, there is a trend, those with college degrees are less likely to be obese compared with less educated women.
Between 1988–1994 and 2007–2008 the prevalence of obesity increased in adults at all income and education levels.
In 2007–2008 more than one-third of United States adults were obese (1). Obese individuals are at increased risk of diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, and certain cancers, among other conditions (2). Some studies have shown a relationship between obesity prevalence and socioeconomic status measured as educational level or income (3,4). This data brief presents the most recent national data on obesity in United States adults and its association with poverty income ratio (PIR) and education level. Results are presented by sex and race and ethnicity.
There is a correlation between poverty and obesity, but that doesn't mean that the percents are really all that much higher. I can tell this just from my experience of living in many different places within my city. There might be more poor people that are overweight, but there are also a lot of people that have an adequate income that are also overweight. I do think though that there is a bigger difference the higher you go up on the overweight scale. A few pounds overweight is probably pretty even over income levels. Morbid obesity seems to high low income people almost exclusively, I could be wrong about that. But, I have never met a person who was middle class or higher that was morbidly obese.0 -
I haven't posted in a long time but here goes.
I am currently going to school to become a registered dietician. Have taken many courses regarding nutrition, food science (btw something doctors have little requirement or knowledge), psychology, etc, etc. BUT...
MY BIGGEST EDUCATION has came from my current job as a supervisor at a large chain grocery store. NO not Wal-Mart=/
There are MULTIPLE reasons for the epidemic of obesity in America and yes it is an epidemic.
I'm not going to address all of them (require too much) but I'll address first hand what I see everyday.
FOOD=BUSINESS!!!
OBESITY=BUSINESS!!!
YOU ARE A BUSINESS to food corporations, supermarkets, medical corporations, etc.
LOOK at how a grocery store is set up. Produce, meat, dairy is set up around the store where as most packaged and processed food is in the very center. They (corporations) want you to have to walk and see and be tempted by everything to reach a goal. You buying more food. We have goals for you to walk out with certain amounts of food and certain brands and track it every week, every day, and hour to see what we sell. 98% items tracked are processed. We don't care about peppers and grapes and bananas. We care about Nabisco, Pepsi, and Frito-Lay. Why? Well they give us bonuses, they help fund bills and politicians protecting them (look into GMO bills. In CA Coke/Pepsi spent $50 million blocking GMO bills), and we ANSWER to them. We don't meet goals guess who's coming down on us. Not your local dairy farmer or peach grower.
AND I'm going to greatly disagree with the assistance opinions on here. I grew up partly on welfare as well as a lot of people so I am not discriminating here. Grocery stores in my area run 60-70% on welfare recipients. Sad but true. We further build more stores primarily around lower to middle class incomes due to the revenues. It's guaranteed monthly income. The quantity of food we sell during the first of the month is not only unbelievable but disgusting. Our average basket exceeds $250 during welfare recipient times. I have regular customers that spend $600 during a shopping trip and maybe contain one or two vegetables if lucky. I have people that put back eggs and milk they cannot afford before their soda and chips. Parents that think that frozen waffles and pop tarts are a healthy breakfast and complain that their children hate fruits and vegetables. (I'm sorry who is the PARENT AGAIN??) I've heard the comment "Man this is a workout" so many times by obese people lifting food onto the belt I could scream. I've heard far too many people complain about hating to grocery shop...I'm sorry you get free assistance by our great nation and are so lucky unlike others to have such opportunity. Ok I'll quit my *****ing now. I could go on and on about the elderly needing more assistance than people that just breed.
Lastly I think obesity in America until lately has culture relation as well. The people I see that buy the most produce, meats, and healthy items are of Hispanic, Latin, and Indian decent. Their dishes require staples such as rice, beans, and meat but they also require produce and spices. These people also have the lowest rates of cancer, heart related issues, etc. Here we want instant gratification (yes I'm guilty as well). We have fast food on every corner to gain your business as well.
BTW I am not immune. I have gained over 25 pounds over past 5 years working at the grocery store where weight has NEVER been an issue in the past. I fell prey. But I don't want to preach and not practice to patients.0 -
This makes sense for the US and Canada and other countries, but....
I live part of the year in the Dominican Republic. I rarely see over weight, fat, obese people there. The usual monthly income is around 200-300 dollars or less! But people aren't starving, they are a healthy weight.
Not to mention that Dominican people spend a huge part of their monthly income on things like their hair, cell phones and other things.
How do they do it?
Well...rice and beans is cheap and healthy. Veggies actually only cost a little bit less or the same as here in Canada in the summer time, but they eat them regularly. A chicken there is about three dollars. But when you look at the cost of living, that is still more than the 6 dollars I spend on a chicken here ( all things adjusted)
They very rarely crap or processed food. Those things are imported and very expensive.
Not to mention that most of my Dominican friends are a lot less active than we are....they all hate to walk anywhere and I have never seen one exercise on purpose.
The point is...you can be poor and eat properly, it is cheaper to eat properly if you eat the basics and stay away from processed food.
I have learned a lot from the Dominican people on how to live healthy, that is for sure.
You can be poor and not be fat. A bag of rice is a few dollars, a bag of beans is a few dollars...a chicken is a few dollars, basics that you actually cook into meals that are healthy, can be pretty cheap.
bump0 -
Among men, obesity prevalence is generally similar at all income levels
...
There is no significant trend between obesity and education among men.
I can well imagine that this may come as a surprise to many.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/964323-salt-sugar-fat-how-the-food-giants-hooked-us?page=3#posts-147232310 -
Rice, eggs, frozen veggies, beans, frozen chicken, apples, lettuce and bananas are all pretty inexpensive. And people could garden. Seeds are dirt cheap. If you have a backyard, you *could* grow some veggies.
My community received a grant to provide nutrition and cooking education to food-stamp recipients. They offered classes that focused on how to budget your food stamps, how to cook whole meals, and where to shop for the best deals. Attendance and participation were so poor that we didn't receive funding for a second year. Some people don't want to learn to change - which is true of any economic status. There are plenty of fat rich people too - they don't want to give up the drive-through or high calorie foods either.
I have a small issue with growing things... those who are on assistance generally don't own their own homes, I don't know what it is like in the US (I'm in Oz) but here you can't make major alterations to the garden without permission. On top of that small difficulty if you have a black thumb (Like me!) then getting ANYTHING to grow is a challenge.0 -
This is a tangent, so I'll be brief. If you'd like to discuss this further, we can start a new topic. Part of the issue is that if you polled any 10 advocates of "clean eating" on MFP, you'd likely get 5 or more definitions of what it means to "eat clean." A term that is as broadly defined as that isn't especially helpful to a discussion, and most attempts to define it more clearly boil down to personal preference and debates about which particular studies are reputable or disreputable, with each study having its own supporters.When will people understand that processed and "unclean" foods don't cause weight gain, an excess of calories does. In 98% of the posts in this thread and on the whole forum all I see are these claims about clean eating. Living on cheap fast foods DOESN'T cause obesity, however, eating 4000 calories when you need 2000 to maintain your weight WILL.
With all do respect, and please understand I am not snarking you in any way, but why do people keep saying this on MFP? A calorie, is a calorie is a calorie and the like?
I've only been on here a few days and it repeats itself like a very bad mantra. Unclean food won't make you get weight, yes, I understand the arithmetic here, but its presented as though everybody are immortals on this board and as if coronary disease, hypertension and diabetes are non factors of eating unclean. Maybe its premature of me to make this assessment but I'm starting to feel if I dive deeper in the MFP archives, I'm going to see more of this. This is not just a fallacy, its dangerous. Please don't take offense because I mean none to you.0 -
I absolutely agree! There is definitely a link between the two. I think people need to stop blaming and use that energy to think of solutions.0
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The ubiquitous presumption of access to a car is interesting in these discussions of "poverty," I think. There's also the notion that the "care-giver" isn't a combination of the school system (already discussed at length in the thread) and a sibling old enough to be trusted with any required babysitting duties, or an older relative who grew up on fried foods and feeds them the only way s/he knows, as is the case with a lot of impoverished families.
If you're the sole breadwinner in a single-parent house dealing with poverty, and work 17 hours a day in order to provide for your family, is it still "laziness" to buy less healthy foods that don't take 15 minutes and more to prepare, rather than the potatoes and hamburgers (sorely lacking in any vegetables or fruits, incidentally) suggested here?If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.
That depends. How long does it take you to get through the McDonald's drive thru?
I know it's not easy on everyone, and for some people, like the single parent who works that much, it is hard. I was just talking about cost efficiency, not time or even the food pyramid for that matter. Hopefully, said parent would have care-givers for their children who give a crap and can help instill healthy habits.0 -
I will give a perspective from someone on foodstamps.
I agree with 100% about money is the reason for obesity, along with education. If you don't know better you can't do better.
But honestly. I have a family of 3, and for an entire month I get $85 dollars. I get WIC as well, and they give me ten dollars in fresh fruit. I recently bought a bag of grapes (and I had to take some out, like, half the bag) and 3 plums. For $10. It's very VERY tough to get by on what we have and a lot of the time, I can't choose the healthiest choices because I simply cannot afford it.
And this is where I get ticked off. Now it has been awhile since I have received WIC, my youngest is 15. They give you all this money for milk, cheese, and not fruit (they did not do that back then), but the cereal! Sugar in a bowl. My middle child has special health issues. When they saw her what I was feeding her, they said they may have to stop giving me help because I was feeding her too well! WHAT? because I can make pancakes from scratch? Because I knew about nutrition and was doing my best. WIC can be good but it needs to do better.
You can feed your kids on a tight budget. You can make burrito's healthy and with very little money. Same with pancakes you can make them healthier and with very little money. And the good thing with both of them is they FREEZE!! I love foods that freeze well because you can make them in bulk. Go to the local butcher (if you have one) or evn the local grocery store early in the morning. They often have marked down meat because it is too old to sell at full price but safe to eat or freeze. I often get ground pork for 1.50 or less a pound. It makes some nice meatballs or hamburgers, even meat for the burritos. I know it is very frustrating. But with a little work it can be done. If I did you I promise you can do it. The key is making stuff, that can be frozen from scratch. This means taking a weekend, if you don't work, and making it a cooking weekednd. The kids can help.
Good luck0 -
Among men, obesity prevalence is generally similar at all income levels
...
There is no significant trend between obesity and education among men.
I can well imagine that this may come as a surprise to many.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/964323-salt-sugar-fat-how-the-food-giants-hooked-us?page=3#posts-14723231
I wasnt hooked by anybody because I know better.
People need to stop blaming the food giants and blame themselves0 -
Among men, obesity prevalence is generally similar at all income levels
...
There is no significant trend between obesity and education among men.
I can well imagine that this may come as a surprise to many.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/964323-salt-sugar-fat-how-the-food-giants-hooked-us?page=3#posts-14723231
I wasnt hooked by anybody because I know better.
People need to stop blaming the food giants and blame themselves
I don't like to blame the food industry. Because I can chose not to go. When my kids were smaller "Inspector Gadget" was big. McDonald's had pieces of him every week. Of course, they wanted to go every week. We used a magic word. NO. I chose what I do and do not put in my body. It is sad that the food industry does use manipulative ingredients and advertisement. However, in the end it is a choice.
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That is an excellent point. In this country, it is way too affordable to eat crappy, processed, high fat, high sugar foods. It is harder to eat whole fruits and veggies, and other real food. It's a real shame...0
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How is that NOT a form of child abuse?0 -
As someone who grew up damn poor but managed to claw my way out, get some schooling and now live a semi-middle class life, eating clean was the last thing on my mind and the minds of my parents. Maybe I'm wrong but our family drama was out there for the world to see - alcoholism, mental illness, unstable home and work life (for my parents). Growing up in a small town - you knew who had the issues with booze, craziness and drugs. It never seemed that the middle class families had these issues or hid it pretty well.
I read that a Kentucky (?) lawmaker wanted to tie academic performance of kids whose families receive aid - if the kid failed or underperformed, the family would lose their food stamps. I totally see that working.... :grumble: A kid who is already stressed and likely struggling with school due to lacking resources is now responsible for keeping the family's hunger at bay. No pressure there.0
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