Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?
Replies
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I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!0 -
I remember when I first started going out to town in my late teens and said to my dad, "Dad, aren't you a bit jealous that I'm heading out to bars full of young women that I can dance with and potentially, you know, have fun with?"
His response cracked me up:
"No, because in my day they were all thin"
I shouldn't laugh but I can't help it! Your dad is funny!!
I don't really know about the population at large. Older people seem the same size as they were. It's the 20 something crowd that shocks me. We spend an enormous time at the beach in the summer, and it's kind of sad to see hot young guys and girls with their muffins tops and moobs. I had a hot body at that age but carried a little cellulite in the back of my thighs which embarrassed me greatly.0 -
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/14/article-0-139B1B8A000005DC-690_306x531.jpg Fat? REALLY? :huh:0
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Totally agree, this is something I was only thinking about the other day.
There was a picture of an overweight girl on Facebook, posted from a page, it wasn't a friend or anything - she was dressed in sexy underwear and men and women were 'rating' her. She wasn't obese, but most definitly in the overweight category.
Anyway, all the women were coming on to say how refreshing it was to see a woman with 'curves' - I was amazed, she wasn't curvy, she was overweight - curves to me are a decent bum and boobs on a healthy weighing body, not a woman whose belly is hanging over the top of her knickers.
And funnily enough, all the women prasing her 'curves' looked to be overweight/obese themselves.
So yeah, I definitely think peoples perception of what a healthy weight should be has changed, if people think that someone her size was healthily curvy, they would obviously think a girl with body fat % in the athletic range would be anorexic, it's ridiculous!0 -
As someone else said in the post, it depends on the culture of the country.
Here in the UK, I think you're right. Same with America. An average size of a size 16 (UK) is pretty bad - considering that would have been a size 18/20 about 20 years ago - my mother measured a waist line of a pair of size 12 shorts I had on eBay the other day - 32 inches. She thought they were a size 14. Vanity sizing really doesn't help.
A lot of people look at me and say that I need to stop losing weight. I've gone from 197lbs to 145lbs, and at 5'4, although this is a healthy weight, I am not happy with my BF% - a lot of people say I'm too skinny, which I don't think is true AT ALL.
And the things with the mannequins making them 'real-sized' is really demoralizing. Are people less or more than a size 12 unreal?0 -
I think so for sure, In America I started as a 16ish and I would say 14/16 is the average so no one thought I was 'overweight' the people who have notice keep saying, oh you don't need to lose any weight, you look fine! I am in the overweight BMI and it is not fine!0
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I put on most of my weight after having my second child I'm 5"6 and used to weigh 10.2 stones I am now 14.5st after losing 19lbs in less than 5 weeks, 10lbs I lost by using mfp for the past 20 days.
I don't just blame it on the pregnancy I just lost track of how much I was eating.
I am size 16-18 and although I look better than before 18-20 I am certainly not happy at this size and I personally don't believe anybody would be. Yes you can still look lovely but health wise I seriously doubt it can be any good to be in the overweight or obese category.
I believe ppl are getting a bit to relaxed with their weight and one should always aim for a healthy bmi depending on their body's composition.
Since joining mfp it has actually given me the belief that I don't only have to lose weight I should also work on my general fitness, build muscle and balance my diet correctly.
It's a long road until I reach my goal but I won't succumb to the belief that it's ok to be this size.0 -
My favorite kind of fat shaming is "concerned fat shaming". You know, when random folks comment on overweight people but insist it's not how they look that upsets them, it's genuine concern for their health. How dare they try to learn to accept and be happy as they are at a UK 16/US 12; what about their health?
Oh and one time someone told m to eat a burger and it hurt my feelings. How dare these overweight people lash out with even a fraction of the venom the world has heaped on to them; they're not allowed to be bitter and mean; after all I'm slim/athletic/skinny and they should aspire to be more like me because I am closer to the ideal.
Who cares if being fat is more acceptable? Are fat people making you fat? Making your kid fat? Eating all your food? Stealing your jobs or otherwise inhibiting your life in some manner beyond making you look upon their overweight forms? As far a I'm concerned it just means more clothes available in my size; sounds like a win to me.0 -
yes really.. she has no waist .0 -
Definetely NOT fat! I don't understand how someone could think that??? :grumble:0 -
She'd be "fat" if she were 100+lb heavier, round and shaped like a ball...NOT FAT!!!
yes really.. she has no waist .
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in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!
The girl in the ad certainly is not 'fat'. Indeed she 'should' have a BMI of over 25 because when you read the small print on boxes of Special K, they only recommend their diet plans for people of BMI over 25. But I very much doubt the girl in the ad is.
Likewise 'plus size' models are not a bad thing either - most are usually a UK size 12 or 14 and usually within the 'normal', i.e. healthy, BMI brackets.
There is a huge difference between promoting people of a healthy weight and the normalisation of obesity which in most cases results in chronic health problems.0 -
I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
I completely agree with you. I think it's the other way around - people now see thin as normal thanks to what the media shows us.0 -
yes really.. she has no waist .
Waist definition is a result of frame structure and muscle definition, not necessarily fat. The model is, I believe, a UK10-12 (US 6-8), so hardly 'plus-size' as this campaign was marketed, and certainly not fat.0 -
yes really.. she has no waist .
Many very lean women do not have a waist. That is genetic and cannot be altered.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/982475-this-is-a-photoshop-signed-a-graphic-artist-with-pics
The above post has a good example of a very lean woman with 'no waist' in the 21:14 post on May 7th.0 -
I essentially agree. We are too accepting of obesity. Not that it's necessarily bad. I know we all have our own unique struggles, regarding our weight.
There are 2 sides to this. One is unrealistic standards that we see in fashion magazines etc. And the other is the 'real women have curves' thing. And a previous poster hit the nail on the head when they said that women having curves means curvy hips, butt and boobs, and not a big fat gut and fat rolls. There are pleasing curves, and while technically my fat rolls are curved, they are not pleasing, sexy, or most importantly, healthy.
It's great to accept your body type and to love yourself the way you are, but it's too much for me when people start to celebrate things about themselves that are not healthy. As much as someone might love being a 'big beautiful woman', their internal organs, and their joints might not be loving it quite so much.
I don't think any woman ( or man) should feel bad about themselves if they don't have a flat stomach or six pack. But we all need to take it seriously, and be realistic, when it comes to our health. And having a waist line that is too thick isn't good for any of us.0 -
yes really.. she has no waist .
Waist definition is a result of frame structure and muscle definition, not necessarily fat. The model is, I believe, a UK10-12 (US 6-8), so hardly 'plus-size' as this campaign was marketed, and certainly not fat.
it s just personal opinion ..
a lot of thought will have gone into the model used and they could hardly use someone more curvy waisted and feminine because even uk youth doesnt look like that anymore and i dont doubt they settled on the "blocky" waisted look as they felt results more "believable and atainable" for their target market of women ...
I just see that blocky look as fat and my eyes would wander elsewhere ..0 -
I think it hugely depends on your build. The BMI does not take into account people's natural body types. (Just to clarify - I do NOT agree with overweight people referring to themselves as 'curvy') Some people are naturally broader than others and so what is 'normal' for each person varies hugely. I think in general perception of body weight has varied - on both ends of the scale, there are people who are far too thin who people say they are "normal" and there are people who are overweight that people also consider "normal". I think it will be always one of those things that can never be standardised as it is far too subjective.0
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I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
I completely agree with you. I think it's the other way around - people now see thin as normal thanks to what the media shows us.
Yep, Definitely going this way, people all looking to be just "thin" - Lads included.
On topic, perceptions have changed, and the new in seems to be everyone wanting to look Skinny. - Sorry, Personally I really don't get that....
Phil, as a Male, I would advise against using BMI for a judge of healthy weight, It's an ancient system, and does not factor in Muscle mass, Point in case, at my peak, 13 Stone (190lb's ish), with a 30" waist is lean by any visual means, but put me as "Obese"!!
Peoples perceptions will always change, This Skinny being the new in thing is going insane!! 15 years ago, I was the size most want to be now, my Doctor threatened to send me to hospital for being anorexic!!
(Rant over!! no offense to anyone meant, just my 2 cents!)0 -
in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!
ahaha yes!
and a small in shops is size 10-12? like cmon? thats medium!
And the fact that there are many shops that only do clothes from size 12-whatever is just ridiculous!
Another thing is sizes are getting bigger, especially in america rather than a UK, I got a pair of size 1 shorts from a&f and they are huge!!!
there was an article about it i read before how shops are making their sizes bigger so people feel happier and buy their clothes, just ridiculous!
I think ive used the word ridiculous too much haha0 -
Who cares if being fat is more acceptable? Are fat people making you fat? Making your kid fat? Eating all your food? Stealing your jobs or otherwise inhibiting your life in some manner beyond making you look upon their overweight forms? As far a I'm concerned it just means more clothes available in my size; sounds like a win to me.
I care, NO, YES, as they think it is perfectly fine to be a size 16+ now(it's not, it's not healthy), NO,( I eat healthy foods)YES, they are raising my health premiums higher than they have ever been. As the burden of cost of health care for obese people skyrockets, as you and everyone else thinks it is okay to be obese these days. It is not, it is not good for ANYONE.0 -
I think the problems is the numbers on the scale and people putting too much emphasis on it.....everyone seems to forget that everyone carries their weight differently.....0
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How many people do hard physical labour all day long ? I remember my senior relatives living on farms and being hard as bricks, no need to exercise as hard lifts was a lifestyle for necessities sake. The farm boys in high school were always the best in sports, and the girls could outwork any guy who lived in town. Those body types were considered normal as testimony to the hard work you had to do to survive. If you carried a few pounds around your middle and worked hard it all come with the lifestyle and no judgements. Those folks seemed to be tons more happier than we are !!!0
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Who cares if being fat is more acceptable? Are fat people making you fat? Making your kid fat? Eating all your food? Stealing your jobs or otherwise inhibiting your life in some manner beyond making you look upon their overweight forms? As far a I'm concerned it just means more clothes available in my size; sounds like a win to me.
I care, NO, YES, as they think it is perfectly fine to be a size 16+ now(it's not, it's not healthy), NO,( I eat healthy foods)YES, they are raising my health premiums higher than they have ever been. As the burden of cost of health care for obese people skyrockets, as you and everyone else thinks it is okay to be obese these days. It is not, it is not good for ANYONE.
I suggest you find something else to care about
If people being bigger is making your kids bigger I'd say a breakdown In communication and/or some manner of parenting failure has taken place. Teach your kid about proper nutrition and fitness and stop letting the media/Joe blow on the street build their self image.
Well thank God you eat healthy food or else those obese slobs might yank it right out if your hands.
My healthcare costs remains the same. Maybe you have crap healthcare? And its not like other non-obesity health issues are on the rise or anything. It's not like people are living longer than ever and thus require more healthcare for longer; it's all about fat people.0 -
Speaking of sizes or "dress sizes" as they are commonly called referring to women's clothes, maybe our waisted items should be measure in inches and centimetres like mens clothes. Sure that would be more accurate and the bar wouldn't be moved around to account for an expending population?0
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I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
You were saying?
There were plenty of slender celebrities in the last century, and there are plenty of large celebrities today. Aside from fashion models for a brief period in the last decade (they've got bigger again now), the ideal aesthetic hasn't got any smaller. We've just got bigger. (See vanity sizing!)0 -
Are you sure you aren't borderline overweight due to all of your muscles? Because you look absolutely amazing in your photos and are an inspiration in your before and after side by side shots. But I'm not going to be the one to tell you to stop losing but instead will tell you to keep up the good work.
Oh wow, thank you for such lovely words!
But yes, I can certainly appreciate that BMI is a one-size-fits-all measure, and doesn't take things into account such as muscle mass, natural build etc. But the fact remains that, whilst I'm in shape - I still often get called 'thin' or 'skinny' when, even if you take my flabby leftovers aside, my muscle structure dictates that I'm neither of those things - I'm fairly solid; skinny suggests otherwise.
And I will keep it up - thank you
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bump for later0
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Yeah. chubby is the new skinny
I agree. I know people who dress in tighter clothes that maybe they shouldn't...like stretchy pants...and have major muffin top going on. I think people think they are skinny and healthy, when they are not. So yes...I think the size of normal has increased.0 -
I disagree. I think the real problem is the exact opposite, that people's concepts of normal are far, far too thin (at least for women) due to size 0 models and actresses. The debate over the Special K actress is a perfect example of that. The only reason anyone would think this woman is fat: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/14/article-0-139B1B8A000005DC-690_306x531.jpg
Is because they're used to seeing things like this: http://fametastic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/keira_knightley_premiere.jpg0
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