Lift light or lift heavy? Lift smart!

Woops--looks like someone took on the heavy lifts orthodoxy? Kind of like questioning creation theory in Kansas or denouncing the Koran in Egypt...

A lot of women are convinced that low reps at heavy weights (say 5x5) is the *only* way to go. It's a black-white universe where only two kinds of weight-training exist (1) Something Mr. T would do (2) Something in the Olivia Newton John "Let's Get Physical" video.

In other words, it's a logical fallacy--setting up a false dilemma. (Defended, by some posters, with another logical fallacy--attacking the speaker. You're lucky no one has pulled out Reductio Ad Gif Librarium yet though I'm sure that's on its way).

Can't tell you how many back injuries I've seen on here from folks doing 5x5 deadlifts...or 4x3, 3x2 etc.

You have ignited a Jihad!

thank you thank you thank you. I love you. no homo.

I started this movement because someone on my FL is actually over training with risk of injury for her age (40s). There is a lot of misinformation on here.

Women should not be afraid to follow well established workouts without thinking they are noobs or inefficient at it.

Heck at my gym, tons of muscular guys are lifting 25lbs with higher reps.

Yea, us old dudes in our 40s shouldn't be lifting heavy stuff. I guess I should tell my poor wife she's also too old and weak to deadlift. :laugh:

I don't see people on here saying that others "must" lift heavy. It is an approach that works, and progressive overload is a very efficient way of gaining strength.

^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

"if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

"if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

You didnt care to read through the OP or click on the links so there cant really be a discussion.

nice flounce

Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

This is what I've been getting at. Both work, yet neither one is perfect. Progressive overload using both is the best approach.

There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

Paternalism isn't sexy.

There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

The vast majority of women on here are eating at a deficit so the whole issue of 'bulk' is irrelevant.

So, only women? hmmmmm

OP - you need to back off the sex thing brah. Its not helping you get your point across. The same strategies work for both sexes.

There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

The vast majority of women on here are eating at a deficit so the whole issue of 'bulk' is irrelevant.

So, only women? hmmmmm

Stand aside, ladies. He's here to help.

OK. What do I know about leaning out anyway!

There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

Why wouldn't ALL women have strength as a goal? I have a "skinny" friend, size 2, who isn't strong enough to help her husband move a couch. I overheard my boss tell some one today "Well Susan doesn't need to be loading 100lb boxes into the truch by herself." Well why not? I could. I can also carry 2 of my 3 children at once. Being strong is awesome. Stronger women live longer with less injuries.

Why is a 5x5 program any more intimidating than a 3x20 program? Strong lifts you go in there and squat the bar to start. Why is that scarier than bicep curling? Because the barebell isn't pink?

There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

So do the elderly count too in your opinion or are you just sexist?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3117172/

OP - you need to back off the sex thing brah. Its not helping you get your point across. The same strategies work for both sexes.

Agree with this but two reasons I talked about women: 1) as I mentioned it was a woman on my FL who prompted me to write this, and 2) mostly women are taking issue with this ideology.

So why don't you offer your advise to her instead of generalizing your recommendations to EVERY woman?

The sad thing is, I don't disagree with the underlying point Op has as I understand it now. Lifting too heavy causing injuries is bad (tho even those of us who promote heavy lifting believe if you are being injured you need to lower the weight and fix your form). I agree that if you don't want to lift a heavy weight, you can lower the weight and do more reps (I do this and set my reps in order to maintain the same ORM I would have had from a higher weight and Lower reps). I also agree that it is best to do more than one kind of exercise (I lift, run, and do yoga.... And by "lift" I do both 5/3/1 and body building type assistance work).

My problem from the beginning was that we didn't have information from the study of what was meant by "heavy" and "light." I went and found that information and shared, but by then OP was putting words in my mouth based on little more than my gender.... And then refused to respond to me, all while professing to care about women.

And one final point, I don't care what exercise someone chooses to do. That's their choice. I support people who train for marathons and do not lift at all. But I don't like anything that makes it out like lifting heavy is somehow drastically different for women than it is for men. Sorry. It's not.