Lift light or lift heavy? Lift smart!

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  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    Woops--looks like someone took on the heavy lifts orthodoxy? Kind of like questioning creation theory in Kansas or denouncing the Koran in Egypt...

    A lot of women are convinced that low reps at heavy weights (say 5x5) is the *only* way to go. It's a black-white universe where only two kinds of weight-training exist (1) Something Mr. T would do (2) Something in the Olivia Newton John "Let's Get Physical" video.

    In other words, it's a logical fallacy--setting up a false dilemma. (Defended, by some posters, with another logical fallacy--attacking the speaker. You're lucky no one has pulled out Reductio Ad Gif Librarium yet though I'm sure that's on its way).

    Can't tell you how many back injuries I've seen on here from folks doing 5x5 deadlifts...or 4x3, 3x2 etc.

    You have ignited a Jihad!

    thank you thank you thank you. I love you. no homo.

    I started this movement because someone on my FL is actually over training with risk of injury for her age (40s). There is a lot of misinformation on here.

    Women should not be afraid to follow well established workouts without thinking they are noobs or inefficient at it.

    Heck at my gym, tons of muscular guys are lifting 25lbs with higher reps.

    Yea, us old dudes in our 40s shouldn't be lifting heavy stuff. I guess I should tell my poor wife she's also too old and weak to deadlift. :laugh:

    I don't see people on here saying that others "must" lift heavy. It is an approach that works, and progressive overload is a very efficient way of gaining strength.
  • Eandretta96
    Eandretta96 Posts: 119
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    Yea, us old dudes in our 40s shouldn't be lifting heavy stuff. I guess I should tell my poor wife she's also too old and weak to deadlift. :laugh:

    I don't see people on here saying that others "must" lift heavy. It is an approach that works, and progressive overload is a very efficient way of gaining strength.
    This.
  • NormInv
    NormInv Posts: 3,303 Member
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    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    What is your definition of over training? How do you determine that they are? Are they having symptoms of over training? What are they? How much are they training? What routine are they doing? What intensity. volume and frequency?

    You use the word toning................hmmm
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

    "if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.
  • NormInv
    NormInv Posts: 3,303 Member
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    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

    "if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    You didnt care to read through the OP or click on the links so there cant really be a discussion.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    Options
    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

    "if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    You didnt care to read through the OP or click on the links so there cant really be a discussion.

    nice flounce
  • CorvusCorax77
    CorvusCorax77 Posts: 2,536 Member
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    I pretty much find OP's comments to be sexist and he doesn't even know why. And I'm entertained, really, by the assumptions he makes.
  • wolfpack77
    wolfpack77 Posts: 655
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    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    This is what I've been getting at. Both work, yet neither one is perfect. Progressive overload using both is the best approach.
  • NormInv
    NormInv Posts: 3,303 Member
    Options
    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

    "if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    You didnt care to read through the OP or click on the links so there cant really be a discussion.

    nice flounce

    I really do not understand your response. Are you saying lift only heavy? Are you saying old men should lift heavy.

    Can you please say what you are saying?
  • NormInv
    NormInv Posts: 3,303 Member
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    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.
  • CorvusCorax77
    CorvusCorax77 Posts: 2,536 Member
    Options
    ^ but nobody said you shouldnt be lifting heavy progressively - key word progressively.

    I gave the reason for this post twice on this thread saying that some women are over training because there is a school of thought that ONLY heavy load can help you.

    So I do not understand why you think I think old men you age shouldnt lift heavy. Or women of any age shouldnt lift heavy if they can or want to.

    I only said if you cant lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps.

    And secondly, my earlier assertion, which I did not repeat in this thread, but which some of you support, was higher reps for toning, lower reps for strength/size.

    Oh, so overtraining and lifting heavy are inextricably linked then?

    "if you can't lift heavy, lift lighter but go more reps." Interesting. Have you ever read Wender's 5/3/1?

    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    You didnt care to read through the OP or click on the links so there cant really be a discussion.

    nice flounce

    Glad to see some brains in this thread- also he did the same thing to me. I asked legit questions and he refused to respond.
  • CorvusCorax77
    CorvusCorax77 Posts: 2,536 Member
    Options
    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

    Paternalism isn't sexy.
  • wolfpack77
    wolfpack77 Posts: 655
    Options
    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

    Paternalism isn't sexy.

    lol
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Options
    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

    The vast majority of women on here are eating at a deficit so the whole issue of 'bulk' is irrelevant.

    So, only women? hmmmmm
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    Specific rep ranges are used for strength vs. hypertrophy.

    This is what I've been getting at. Both work, yet neither one is perfect. Progressive overload using both is the best approach.

    I agree with you.
  • wolfpack77
    wolfpack77 Posts: 655
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    OP - you need to back off the sex thing brah. Its not helping you get your point across. The same strategies work for both sexes.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    Options
    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

    The vast majority of women on here are eating at a deficit so the whole issue of 'bulk' is irrelevant.

    So, only women? hmmmmm

    Stand aside, ladies. He's here to help.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Options
    There is a vast majority of women on here who are getting into fitness for the first time. They have never lifted regularly before. We need a better regimen for them, better advice. Your goals of bulk and strength are not applicable to them

    Why do you guys feel attacked or threatened by this?

    A 200 lb woman does not need to be intimidated at the prospect of going to the gym. She needs to go in there and lift what is right for her.

    The vast majority of women on here are eating at a deficit so the whole issue of 'bulk' is irrelevant.

    So, only women? hmmmmm

    Stand aside, ladies. He's here to help.

    OK. What do I know about leaning out anyway!
  • NormInv
    NormInv Posts: 3,303 Member
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    OP - you need to back off the sex thing brah. Its not helping you get your point across. The same strategies work for both sexes.

    Agree with this but two reasons I talked about women: 1) as I mentioned it was a woman on my FL who prompted me to write this, and 2) mostly women are taking issue with this ideology.

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