Still think 'eating organic' isn't worth it?

The article has nothing to do with organic food.

Organic farming is too inefficient to feed the population.

:drinker: THIS!!!!

For the people eating organic, what are your long term goals to prevent famine?

Genuine question: wouldn't the organic crops be "contaminated" with pesticides as well, because it is in all the water, air and soil already?

true but you'd probably be eating less of it..


for me the takeaway from this is not necessarily to buy all organic products, but to work towards a situation where i can grow my own stuff as much as possible.

as others have noted, organic farming for the masses is unsustainable unless we're talking about killing off a lot of the population ahead of time so there are less mouths to feed in that fashion.

also part of me is only with the "local grown movement" (and it's really big here in the bay area) when the ingredients are tasty. i've had far too many local grown and raised crap recently that tastes bland and flavorless.

I respect the right of others to eat organic, but it isn't for me.

i don't understand how anyone could say that eating stuff grown from the earth in the way it's been done for thousands of years "isn't for them" in comparison to supporting mega-corps like Monsanto using genetically modified organisms, pesticides, and invasive gene therapy. 1 hour of research into the disgusting business practices of Monsanto should scare anyone.

the only reason organic is more expensive is because corps like Monsanto have a stranglehold on big farm.

we shouldn't be calling naturally grown food 'organic'. It's 'normal'. Everything else should get stuck with a name.

Even the label 'organic' has been co-opted by big business thanks to the US gov't. I know many small farmers in my area that have always been organic... but can't afford the massive fees it can take to now 'prove' you're organic. Those fees and other obstacles were put in place by lobbyists working for Monsanto and other mega-corps.

THIS. Thank you! I couldn't have said it better.

this times a million!

So, you all think anyone should be able to label their produce as organic, with no checks to see if it's true? Yeah, the honor system is always best in the food industry. :huh:

I find it interesting that so many folks are trusting the government agency (the same one they say is subject to the whims of megacorps like Monsanto) to label and regulate our "organic" food?

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-07-03/news/36836942_1_organic-label-organic-products-usda-organic


I don't like the idea of pesticides/chemicals in my food or GMO being the norm. But I also sure as hell don't trust the USDA to take on this task! And no...I'm not a wingnut...or maybe I am.

Why do people act like organic farmers don't use pesticides? They absolutely do.

The obvious answer seems the type of pesticides.

§ 205.603 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic livestock production.
In accordance with restrictions specified in this section the following synthetic substances may be used in organic livestock production:

(a) As disinfectants, sanitizer, and medical treatments as applicable.

(1) Alcohols.

(i) Ethanol-disinfectant and sanitizer only, prohibited as a feed additive.

(ii) Isopropanol-disinfectant only.

(2) Aspirin-approved for health care use to reduce inflammation.

(3) Atropine (CAS #-51-55-8)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:

(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian; and

(ii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 56 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 12 days after administering to dairy animals.

(4) Biologics—Vaccines.

(5) Butorphanol (CAS #-42408-82-2)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:

(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian; and

(ii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 42 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 8 days after administering to dairy animals.

(6) Chlorhexidine—Allowed for surgical procedures conducted by a veterinarian. Allowed for use as a teat dip when alternative germicidal agents and/or physical barriers have lost their effectiveness.

(7) Chlorine materials—disinfecting and sanitizing facilities and equipment. Residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act.

(i) Calcium hypochlorite.

(ii) Chlorine dioxide.

(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.

(8) Electrolytes—without antibiotics.

(9) Flunixin (CAS #-38677-85-9)—in accordance with approved labeling; except that for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires a withdrawal period of at least two-times that required by the FDA.

(10) Furosemide (CAS #-54-31-9)—in accordance with approved labeling; except that for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires a withdrawal period of at least two-times that required that required by the FDA.

(11) Glucose.

(12) Glycerine—Allowed as a livestock teat dip, must be produced through the hydrolysis of fats or oils.

(13) Hydrogen peroxide.

(14) Iodine.

(15) Magnesium hydroxide (CAS #-1309-42-8)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian.

(16) Magnesium sulfate.

(17) Oxytocin—use in postparturition therapeutic applications.

(18) Parasiticides—Prohibited in slaughter stock, allowed in emergency treatment for dairy and breeder stock when organic system plan-approved preventive management does not prevent infestation. Milk or milk products from a treated animal cannot be labeled as provided for in subpart D of this part for 90 days following treatment. In breeder stock, treatment cannot occur during the last third of gestation if the progeny will be sold as organic and must not be used during the lactation period for breeding stock.

(i) Fenbendazole (CAS # 43210-67-9)—only for use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian.

(ii) Ivermectin (CAS # 70288-86-7).

(iii) Moxidectin (CAS # 113507-06-5)—for control of internal parasites only.

(19) Peroxyacetic/peracetic acid (CAS #-79-21-0)—for sanitizing facility and processing equipment.

(20) Phosphoric acid—allowed as an equipment cleaner, Provided , That, no direct contact with organically managed livestock or land occurs.

(21) Poloxalene (CAS #-9003-11-6)—for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires that poloxalene only be used for the emergency treatment of bloat.

(22) Tolazoline (CAS #-59-98-3)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:

(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian;

(ii) Use only to reverse the effects of sedation and analgesia caused by Xylazine; and

(iii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 8 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 4 days after administering to dairy animals.

(23) Xylazine (CAS #-7361-61-7)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:

(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian;

(ii) The existence of an emergency; and

(iii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 8 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 4 days after administering to dairy animals.

(b) As topical treatment, external parasiticide or local anesthetic as applicable.

(1) Copper sulfate.

(2) Formic acid (CAS # 64-18-6)—for use as a pesticide solely within honeybee hives.

(3) Iodine.

(4) Lidocaine—as a local anesthetic. Use requires a withdrawal period of 90 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter and 7 days after administering to dairy animals.

(5) Lime, hydrated—as an external pest control, not permitted to cauterize physical alterations or deodorize animal wastes.

(6) Mineral oil—for topical use and as a lubricant.

(7) Procaine—as a local anesthetic, use requires a withdrawal period of 90 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter and 7 days after administering to dairy animals.

(8) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s-42922-74-7; 58064-47-4)—in accordance with approved labeling.

(c) As feed supplements—None.

(d) As feed additives.

(1) DL-Methionine, DL-Methionine-hydroxy analog, and DL-Methionine-hydroxy analog calcium (CAS #'s 59-51-8, 583-91-5, 4857-44-7, and 922-50-9)—for use only in organic poultry production at the following maximum levels of synthetic methionine per ton of feed: Laying and broiler chickens—2 pounds; turkeys and all other poultry—3 pounds.

(2) Trace minerals, used for enrichment or fortification when FDA approved.

(3) Vitamins, used for enrichment or fortification when FDA approved.

(e) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.

(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.

(2) [Reserved]

(f) Excipients, only for use in the manufacture of drugs used to treat organic livestock when the excipient is: Identified by the FDA as Generally Recognized As Safe; Approved by the FDA as a food additive; or Included in the FDA review and approval of a New Animal Drug Application or New Drug Application.

are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.

Check your local farmer's markets, also, see what you can grow at home. Sometimes just a few little things help in the big picture. The one good thing is that organic foods are starting to really come down in price. A lot of times fruits and veggies are less than 50 cents more per kg/lb

Be careful in assuming that the produce at the local farmers market is better than the grocery store. I know that many of the vendors at ours are getting their products from the very same farms in the US and Mexico that the big box stores do. When buying from the farmers market, make sure to ask where their farm is and if it is possible for you to drive by and see it. If they can't answer - walk away and find someone who can.

This is extremely sad, and just down right wrong. The farmer's markets in my area are made up of a bunch of local farmers in the area, and every one I have asked who I have bought produce from have stated they don't use chemicals and pesticides but can't afford to be certified organic. For me I would take that over the grocery store crap any day. When you don't have the choice the grocery store has to do lol

The reason a lot of people argue that organic local grown produce has more nutrients is because it does. Fruits and veggies start losing their nutrients once they are picked, so when they are coming from other countries, there is a lot of transportation time before they get to your store, and a lot of them are sprayed with things to either ripen them or change the color so they are more appealing. I know at the farmer's markets here, things are picked the day before or that day before the market. It will have more nutrients because they are just being picked.

The other thing I have heard is the soil. Conventional farming mass produces and over turns the soil so much and replants the same plants over and over that it is losing a lot of the vitamins and minerals in the soil, which would mean a more deficient plant.

I don't know this to be fact, but from researching this is what I have found because this question does come up a lot and people say there isn't a difference, but when you think about it, it sounds about right.

every one I have asked who I have bought produce from have stated they don't use chemicals and pesticides but can't afford to be certified organic.

This is a total lie. Either they lied to you or you lied to us. I assume it's the latter, since no one goes to all the vendors at a farmer's market asking "are you using chemicals" and gets told "no but I can't afford to go organic" by "all of them."

Organic doesn't mean "chemical free." Organic farms use pesticides and fertilizers and hosts of other chemicals.

Genuine question: wouldn't the organic crops be "contaminated" with pesticides as well, because it is in all the water, air and soil already?

Another question: Why do we continue to need antibotics or painkillers, because aren't they all in the water and soil already (pharmaceutical contamination)?

I think the previous posters have it right -- do the best you can, make the best choices you can. Criticism of industrial farming doesn't mean criticism of those who buy the food. Our reliance on factory farming for cheap food doesn't mean that we shouldn't pressure the companies to make the food safer/less negative environmental impact - our reliance doesn't mean we have to be/are supportive of the industry's practices. Consumers are not complicit in the bad practices - as consumers they are the victims and industrial farms should be doing better. It is doubtful that industrial farming is the only industry that has had no advances at all (via technology or new discoveries or better science) that would help them make a safer/healthier product (yet advances to increase production/weed killing/increase in size have all been made - even when those advances use dubious chemicals).

Buy organic from local farmers or grow your own. I grow my own now instead of buying organic, and it's just that much more beneficial to me and my family because I KNOW how it was grown and what was used for fertilizer (my own compost), and I KNOW for sure no pesticides were used, not even the tobacco spray that is sometimes used on organic crops.

For what it's worth, nicotine is just as toxic to bees and other polinators as neonicitinoid pesticides like clothianadin. Using tobacco tea sprays is also prohibited illegal in many places. Also, tobacco (at least the nicotine sulfate "tobacco dust") is on the prohibited materials list for organic farmers.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682

So, if someone is using a tobacco spray, their crops may not be organic, and their use of the tobacco spray may be illegal.