Time to exit the market?
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Also all the ads on TV i see by all kinds of people like Fidelity, Blackrock, Franklin Templeton etc etc at al....who tell you how you can just get to your beautiful retirement if you only gave them your money - its just a lot of sales and marketing (trying to avoid calling is BS). These guys have only one goal - make more money off of you. My skin crawls when one of these commercials come on TV.0
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Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.0
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The market is cyclical but the rules have changed a bit. Invest for the long term in companies that have a strong presence in the market, a good track record, and a strategy designed to grow profit margins.
There are values to be had if you can handle a short term roller coaster ride for long term gains.0 -
i keep mine in a banana stand in OC.
i've said too much.0 -
If you want to be financially stable and prepared for your future, you really do have to kind of treat it like your weight/fitness...you just do it, you do what it takes to make it fit your life.
This is very true. I learned it in the opposite direction: my success in losing weight only happened when I managed to apply the same types of tracking and analysis tools I've applied to my finances for years. MFP allows me to do this, although a little less exactly, since I can't be accurate to two decimal places.
The math is much the same, though: large effects of thousands of tiny choices, aggregated together over the years.0 -
I'm guilty like millions of other Americans in that I pay rent, I'm still making payments on two cars, I have a couple big balances on some credit cards, student loans, and now an RV payment (I know kick me stupid stupid). I have a hell of time even saving $50 when it's like well I could pay more on the principal for this credit card or *kitten* it I need my favorite bottle of perfume and the fiance wants to buy a freaking $120 ladder. How do people do it has always been my question?
Sorry long post, but it got me thinking how do you even start when your living like everyone else who is going to be screwed because we had to live off credit.
All the answers you need are right here in your own post. You've borrowed to CONSUME rather than borrowing to INVEST.(loose definition of INVEST)
"How do people do it?"
They save first, then spend.
They drive crappy cars for a few years while they're saving for the next car. And they drive that next car for at least 10 years.
Instead of saying "I need a new RV" they say "I'm only going to use this twice a year, and there's plenty of places to rent an RV 2x a year"
They learn not to say "fck it" and buy that bottle of perfume, when that $50 today can save them $120 over the next 10 years.
They walk next door with a cold brewski and say "Neighbor, can I borrow your ladder?"
They eat baloney sandwhiches for lunch every day instead of going out.
And it all adds up. If you can truly afford all of those payments, you can afford to get yourself out of debt. Maybe it means you don't smell as nice. Maybe it means you borrow a ladder instead of buying. And it's going to take a little while.0 -
quote "How much do you tell them to put into the companies what % of their income? How do they even save to put money into these companies? I'm guilty like millions of other Americans in that I pay rent, I'm still making payments on two cars, I have a couple big balances on some credit cards, student loans, and now an RV payment (I know kick me stupid stupid). I have a hell of time even saving $50 when it's like well I could pay more on the principal for this credit card or *kitten* it I need my favorite bottle of perfume and the fiance wants to buy a freaking $120 ladder. How do people do it has always been my question? I'd love to be some financial wiz and diversify and save, but frankly there is no way I could unless I go bankrupt and start all over again. Then theres the other side of me that looks at all of the people who lost money on this last crash, and you think why would you want to risk gambling on stocks when a pension and home is now a gamble. Good your teaching your kids about money now. No one talks about money its another taboo subject, and they grow up like me a complete money idiot who didnt know the difference between principal or interest till I got my first credit card. I wont even tell you about the fiance he has no concept about money, I swear he's like Rainman!
Sorry long post, but it got me thinking how do you even start when your living like everyone else who is going to be screwed because we had to live off credit."
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It's called discipline.
I save 12% in my 401K, my company gives me another 7% match (sweet huh). My wife is a teacher and her union takes 10% in pension and we put another $100 per pay period into a 403B. You have to establish a budget (even a loose one) that takes 12-15% of gross pay off the top for 401k or IRA and then go from there. From your post you have large cc balances, which is the ultimate financial sin.
I pay $2,600 in rent (we moved to South Florida last year and sold our house), $497 in car payment and carry $0 on cc's. We have available credit of around $75k but never use even a portion of it.
The other thing we did was separate our money into an operating account and a "other" account. Operating pays the mail able bills (rent, utilities, car and insurance) and other pays for gas, groceries and other trips to Target or out to dinner. Makes life easier when tracking expenses and wondering where all your money went.
As for giving back your 2013 gains (my ROI this year is 18.5%), you need to move into broad indexes...They take a longer time to drop in value as it is an index of an entire cap (large, medium or small)...Personally I have moved most of my funds into Large cap in anticipation of a bear market. The other thing to do is run the investment scenarios in your 401k company (like Fidelity). Tell them you are risk adverse and it will find the safest investments for you (all 401k's are at risk so no true risk adverse investment options--but can shelter you a bit).
I come from a one parent family with 4 boys--so I know hard times and wondering if there will be enough money for clothes or food. I have worked hard, got educated and certified and now make a good salary. My mother always said that you live for today but plan for tomorrow. Sage advice from a woman who never made more than $15 an hour but kept a roof over our heads and food on the table.
Silly cliché, but holds true. ANY savings has a compounding effect so even if you think starting with taking $50 a pay period will never add up to anything, you will be surprised. Once you start, you will find ways to increase your savings......sell the crap you don't need (seriously, you even buys RV's anymore).
Good luck and don't be afraid to take the first step.0 -
Our new reality is: there are haves, and there are have-nots and never the twain shall meet. There always were rich and poor, but you could improve your financial status through hard work. Not any more. There are no rules, there is no rhyme or reason. You could feel it starting in 2007. The rules have been rigged.
There are still ways to earn a decent % of return...I happen to manage the finances of "most" of the people in my immediate family (because they asked, and I accepted)...
I tell my kids to put money in larger companies that have decent dividend yields...for a couple of reasons. 1. You are getting a steady stream of money for re-investment, which makes stock price not the "entire" underlying decision base and subsequent true value of the investments you hold. 2. These large corporations of today are global as well, and have the ability to manage risk through use of different government strategies to shelter/protect their assets and capital. 3. Larger companies aren't as easily put "out of business" through normal market movement (however true or contrived that is), as they have a large asset base and many different forms of income/capital at their disposal.
Every "portfolio" however, should really diversify in a mix of large/small US business, yes some bonds, and dare I say it, some foreign companies as well. I simply ensure for my children and relatives that what they put their money in isn't the "fly by night" stuff, but rather known entities with good track records.
You are not guaranteed a company/stock/fund etc.. will perform tomorrow what it has over the past 30,50, 80 years...but I personally consider the larger companies more "prepared" to weather the storm if/when it hits.
Good luck!
How much do you tell them to put into the companies what % of their income? How do they even save to put money into these companies? I'm guilty like millions of other Americans in that I pay rent, I'm still making payments on two cars, I have a couple big balances on some credit cards, student loans, and now an RV payment (I know kick me stupid stupid). I have a hell of time even saving $50 when it's like well I could pay more on the principal for this credit card or *kitten* it I need my favorite bottle of perfume and the fiance wants to buy a freaking $120 ladder. How do people do it has always been my question? I'd love to be some financial wiz and diversify and save, but frankly there is no way I could unless I go bankrupt and start all over again. Then theres the other side of me that looks at all of the people who lost money on this last crash, and you think why would you want to risk gambling on stocks when a pension and home is now a gamble. Good your teaching your kids about money now. No one talks about money its another taboo subject, and they grow up like me a complete money idiot who didnt know the difference between principal or interest till I got my first credit card. I wont even tell you about the fiance he has no concept about money, I swear he's like Rainman!
Sorry long post, but it got me thinking how do you even start when your living like everyone else who is going to be screwed because we had to live off credit.
What you are describing is a much bigger issue than what you are investing in. You are describing being over-extended on your current finances. You need to get that in order first. If you are in constant debt, you need to get rid of that debt.
I tell my children the truth. If you want something, you just "want" it. If you "need" something, you cannot live your life without it.
You can live without cable, the RV, smartphones, sometimes a car (sometimes not), etc..etc..etc... If you want to be financially stable and prepared for your future, you really do have to kind of treat it like your weight/fitness...you just do it, you do what it takes to make it fit your life.
I hope you get it worked out and my advice to you personally would be to get rid of all your debt and make that the absolute most important thing for you financially.
I'm pretty typical I'll stretch the credit fairy out until that poor guy bleeds, LOL! But thats a whole other topic...sorry to highjack. Hey I'm another reason your stock market is so wonky. There was a great South Park episode about the 2009 crash. If you ever get to watch it very funny and so true.0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
I have been reading articles from some of the commodity experts who are predicting gold to return to $400 to $500 an ounce in the near term. If you invest at current levels, you will be broke much quicker than a market correction. Move your portfolio into a safer harbor near term and wade back in when the waters settle.
I used to save only 5% in my 401K and then the market crashed....And I upped my contribution to 8% and then 10% when it went further down. Last year my increased contributions paid handsomely. This year I upped my contribution another 2% and my return is 18.5% ytd. Buying cheap stock is a great way to ride the wave when it goes back up (and history tells us it always goes back up--sorry Obama you are not the reason). I was down like 50% in my portfolio as I was increasing my contribution %.....knowing the bounce would more than make up for the loss. My portfolio has more than doubled in the last 2 plus years.
I'm by no means a genius in the market, I simply followed my gut instincts and took some good advice form some very smart folks who know the market.0 -
i keep mine in a banana stand in OC.
i've said too much.
Frozen bananas? lol0 -
The market is definitly overbought...due to Ben's spending spree. This just forces us to find alternate ways to move. Keeping it under the mattress in a 2/3% inflation environment isn't very attractive. Physical assets, such as metals I'm not too fond of because they don't necessarily produce, they are essentialy a hedge. Buying an apartment building is a solid idea, especially with loan rates at the current rates. I'm sticking with dividend paying blue chips, many of which make much of their profits overseas. Coca cola, McDonalds, Johnson & Johnson, etc. this helps with international diversification without dealing with any tax/currency issues. I'm also a fan of mlp's and reits' s for income purposes - but they require bit more research. Bottom line - there is no easy answer.0
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Trying to time the market is a fool's game.0
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Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.
Nothing wrong with having some precious metals...they are a great "hedge" against inflation. I wouldn't personally stick everything I had in them as I don't think it would "protect" you as much as others do. I have a friend who puts alot of money in metal funds...but the truth is, without actually "having" the metals on hand, how is he assured they really have the amount of "backed" assets to hold the fund value? In our day and age, fractional-reserve practices make it easy for firms to "cook the books" so to speak. It's not exactly "easy" to get an ounce of gold converted to whatever the spendable currency of the time is...
It is true that the US doesn't produce goods like it use to, but guess who does? The large companies who are global in nature. They may not be producing products "in" the U.S. but they are producing them somewhere, and bringing them to the U.S. to sell.
I would never tell someone that "wants" to get out of the market to stay in, as not losing money is just that, it isn't losing money (except for what inflation is taking of course). It is your decision and if it were mine, I would still keep some in large cap/dividend producing equities in companies that have a global stance.
I hope you have great success!0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.
Nothing wrong with having some precious metals...they are a great "hedge" against inflation. I wouldn't personally stick everything I had in them as I don't think it would "protect" you as much as others do. I have a friend who puts alot of money in metal funds...but the truth is, without actually "having" the metals on hand, how is he assured they really have the amount of "backed" assets to hold the fund value? In our day and age, fractional-reserve practices make it easy for firms to "cook the books" so to speak. It's not exactly "easy" to get an ounce of gold converted to whatever the spendable currency of the time is...
It is true that the US doesn't produce goods like it use to, but guess who does? The large companies who are global in nature. They may not be producing products "in" the U.S. but they are producing them somewhere, and bringing them to the U.S. to sell.
I would never tell someone that "wants" to get out of the market to stay in, as not losing money is just that, it isn't losing money (except for what inflation is taking of course). It is your decision and if it were mine, I would still keep some in large cap/dividend producing equities in companies that have a global stance.
I hope you have great success!
Agree 100%.
Yes I am chickening out and exiting but I agree with your analysis 100% including what you said about metal funds are not really owning metals.0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.
That's a very true problem, but it's a lot easier to protect something you physically have, compared to something that is owed to you in the form of an I.O.U. that you'll never be able to get your hands on, and with no guarantee that it'll be paid back. Not to mention all those banks in Cypress, and the runs on banks in the past. Really there is no safer way to have your assets than in physical assets, plus it's real wealth, rather than just numbers on paper. The majority of these companies are borrowed into existence, and none of them have any sort of real material value to show for it. When they go out of business, they won't have anything to liquidate. Look at Facebook, how are they going to sell that when it hits the fan? Most of these companies are going to disappear as quickly as they showed up, with nothing to their name, and nothing to pay back their share holders. I suppose then you wouldn't have to worry about protection, as all you'd be left with is a worthless piece of paper. Not saying physical assets are by any means ideal, but they are better than the alternatives at the moment.0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.
Nothing wrong with having some precious metals...they are a great "hedge" against inflation. I wouldn't personally stick everything I had in them as I don't think it would "protect" you as much as others do. I have a friend who puts alot of money in metal funds...but the truth is, without actually "having" the metals on hand, how is he assured they really have the amount of "backed" assets to hold the fund value? In our day and age, fractional-reserve practices make it easy for firms to "cook the books" so to speak. It's not exactly "easy" to get an ounce of gold converted to whatever the spendable currency of the time is...
It is true that the US doesn't produce goods like it use to, but guess who does? The large companies who are global in nature. They may not be producing products "in" the U.S. but they are producing them somewhere, and bringing them to the U.S. to sell.
I would never tell someone that "wants" to get out of the market to stay in, as not losing money is just that, it isn't losing money (except for what inflation is taking of course). It is your decision and if it were mine, I would still keep some in large cap/dividend producing equities in companies that have a global stance.
I hope you have great success!
That reminds me of those gold bars we gave China that just happened to be tungsten on the inside. I guess we didn't think they'd drill them to make sure it was 100% gold. Whoops. If you're buying precious metals, buy the real deal, not a certificate. Most of those certificates are never going to be redeemable. There isn't enough silver on the market to fulfill the current silver certificates right now, only going to get worse.0 -
i keep mine in a banana stand in OC.
i've said too much.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Physical assets is the way to go, whether it's gold, silver, copper, etc. I wouldn't touch stocks or bonds with a billion foot pole right now, or in the near future. It's a hot mess right now, and there is a lot more going on than meets the eye with market manipulation (think Enron). The US doesn't produce anything, you can't garner real wealth from a country that only sustains itself on services. Either look into other countries's assets (though they're all about as broke as us), or buy actual goods that have a resale value like precious metals. If I was you I'd leave the market as soon as possible, before everyone else jumps ship.
The problem I see with physical assets is that in a scenario where these are the primary assets and we are living in a barter trade economy, you need a lot of physical force and protection. You need to be able to store, protect and transfer your assets. People like you and me do not have the means for that kind of protection.
That's a very true problem, but it's a lot easier to protect something you physically have, compared to something that is owed to you in the form of an I.O.U. that you'll never be able to get your hands on, and with no guarantee that it'll be paid back. Not to mention all those banks in Cypress, and the runs on banks in the past. Really there is no safer way to have your assets than in physical assets, plus it's real wealth, rather than just numbers on paper. The majority of these companies are borrowed into existence, and none of them have any sort of real material value to show for it. When they go out of business, they won't have anything to liquidate. Look at Facebook, how are they going to sell that when it hits the fan? Most of these companies are going to disappear as quickly as they showed up, with nothing to their name, and nothing to pay back their share holders. I suppose then you wouldn't have to worry about protection, as all you'd be left with is a worthless piece of paper. Not saying physical assets are by any means ideal, but they are better than the alternatives at the moment.
this is what happened to the www.com bubble in the end there wasnt really anything there0
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