Restaurants with NO nutritional facts
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Google it. This is my understanding of the law in CA.
Now, I tried to do your citation work for you. I failed. There is no federal law that I can find that another poster claims exists.
I did find the CA version, which is fine, people expect nannyism from CA and NYC, and that wasn't in question. However, to aid you in the future, here is a link you can use for citation when you speak as an expert about it:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1420_bill_20080903_enrolled.html
This is a very simple language explanation of the CA law. I'll now kick back and wait for a cite of this supposed federal law. I have a problem with a federal law, because it's ridiculous, I have no problem with the CA law, because CA voters are kooky and they want silly ineffectual stuff all the time.
I think this is a good quote related to the food labeling law in CA."Caloric menu labeling has no impact on consumers' eating habits. In other words, this was a politically correct that is ineffective," said Carl's Jr. CEO Andy Puzder at a Congressional hearing.
Are you talking to me? I think you are. Change your attitude because your being an *kitten*.
What I said it's that my understanding in CA is that if a chain has 20 or more they have to post nutritional info. So, I don't know where you come off calling out my credentials and all. I never claimed to be a lawyer. I said, it is my understanding of CA law. I live in CA, so I am aware of the law and I have read about it in the past.
Calm down
Speaking to you, and the other legal scholars. You're out because I did your work for you. Now I'd like to see this supposed federal law that the nannyists begged for.
This is ridiculously easy to find. Have you discovered Google yet? If not, hit the below link:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=restaurants+display+calorie+information
The notion that showing data is "nannyism" is amusing.0 -
Asking if you use nuts, or fry in oil used for shellfish, etc, is definitely the customer's responsibility, I don't disagree. But, when they ask that, they are not asking for your secret recipe, nor are they asking for the secret recipe when they ask how many calories the seafood special has. Nutritional info doesn't mean we want the entire ingredient list, just what the common nutritional values are- fat/protein/carbs/sodium- so we can be responsible for ourselves.
You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.
I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.
In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.
The 20 location gate is silly too. So, you make 19 in your chain, form a shell company, change the name marginally, and do another 19. Loophole, engaged.
Any kitchen uses recipes. The nutritional data doesn't have to be calculated for each person's meal, it can be calculated based on the recipe, well ahead of time. This is what goes into our jambalaya. Based on that, a serving has this nutritional value. If you order a steak and baked potato, they are serving a steak that is a consistent portion size, along with a generally consistent potato size. You know a 12oz strip has certain nutritional values, a baked potato has certain values, you can provide that to your customer.
yes, recipes are used, but the variation per dish generally makes any counts provided worthless. I wouldn't trust them.
My opinion, and I think it's reasonable. If you must have these data, stick with the chains, and gamble on the quality of these data, or eat only at fast food places that are highly industrialized and you can be reasonably sure those counts are on.0 -
You'd still have a general idea. You wouldn't be doubling the salt for example. You didn't weigh your hand cut bread loaves? How did you have any idea of inventory control if you didn't know what your portion sizes and costs per portion were? If the hand cut loaves were within an ounce or 2 of each other, not a big deal, but if someone keeps making bigger and bigger loaves until they are 4-5 oz bigger than what you expected, then you'd be losing money.[
yes, this is a better version of what i was trying to say.0 -
I have some words for you, however, you must be bored today. You didn't do jack for me. I told you. Now, go do something, or attempt to make a real life friend.
I understand it can be tough to accept help from others. You are still welcome.
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Asking if you use nuts, or fry in oil used for shellfish, etc, is definitely the customer's responsibility, I don't disagree. But, when they ask that, they are not asking for your secret recipe, nor are they asking for the secret recipe when they ask how many calories the seafood special has. Nutritional info doesn't mean we want the entire ingredient list, just what the common nutritional values are- fat/protein/carbs/sodium- so we can be responsible for ourselves.
You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.
I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.
In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.
The 20 location gate is silly too. So, you make 19 in your chain, form a shell company, change the name marginally, and do another 19. Loophole, engaged.
Any kitchen uses recipes. The nutritional data doesn't have to be calculated for each person's meal, it can be calculated based on the recipe, well ahead of time. This is what goes into our jambalaya. Based on that, a serving has this nutritional value. If you order a steak and baked potato, they are serving a steak that is a consistent portion size, along with a generally consistent potato size. You know a 12oz strip has certain nutritional values, a baked potato has certain values, you can provide that to your customer.
yes, recipes are used, but the variation per dish generally makes any counts provided worthless. I wouldn't trust them.
My opinion, and I think it's reasonable. If you must have these data, stick with the chains, and gamble on the quality of these data, or eat only at fast food places that are highly industrialized and you can be reasonably sure those counts are on.
I typically avoid chains and fast food. I do find it difficult to calculate for example, what I had at the local Mexican place, because you totally have to estimate what is on that fajita platter you got. You can get an idea, figuring you get maybe 8oz of meat and then a cup each of onions and peppers, a cup of rice, a cup of beans. But it'd be nice to know that I'm not 500 calories off either way in my estimate.0 -
Google it. This is my understanding of the law in CA.
Now, I tried to do your citation work for you. I failed. There is no federal law that I can find that another poster claims exists.
I did find the CA version, which is fine, people expect nannyism from CA and NYC, and that wasn't in question. However, to aid you in the future, here is a link you can use for citation when you speak as an expert about it:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1420_bill_20080903_enrolled.html
This is a very simple language explanation of the CA law. I'll now kick back and wait for a cite of this supposed federal law. I have a problem with a federal law, because it's ridiculous, I have no problem with the CA law, because CA voters are kooky and they want silly ineffectual stuff all the time.
I think this is a good quote related to the food labeling law in CA."Caloric menu labeling has no impact on consumers' eating habits. In other words, this was a politically correct that is ineffective," said Carl's Jr. CEO Andy Puzder at a Congressional hearing.
Are you talking to me? I think you are. Change your attitude because your being an *kitten*.
What I said it's that my understanding in CA is that if a chain has 20 or more they have to post nutritional info. So, I don't know where you come off calling out my credentials and all. I never claimed to be a lawyer. I said, it is my understanding of CA law. I live in CA, so I am aware of the law and I have read about it in the past.
Calm down
Speaking to you, and the other legal scholars. You're out because I did your work for you. Now I'd like to see this supposed federal law that the nannyists begged for.
I thought Obama signed something back in 2010 during the whole Obamacare push that made that federal.... And then nothing has yet to come of it. That was the last I heard of it going national at least.
http://www.wtplaw.com/documents/2010/05/new-federal-law-requires-nutrition-disclosure-by-restaurants
Also , no need to be so rude.0 -
You'd still have a general idea. You wouldn't be doubling the salt for example. You didn't weigh your hand cut bread loaves? How did you have any idea of inventory control if you didn't know what your portion sizes and costs per portion were? If the hand cut loaves were within an ounce or 2 of each other, not a big deal, but if someone keeps making bigger and bigger loaves until they are 4-5 oz bigger than what you expected, then you'd be losing money.[
yes, this is a better version of what i was trying to say.
Wouldn't be doubling the salt? What if the recipe uses a pinch, my pinch may be more liberal than another person's, and my pinch will definitely be larger than most women because my hands are larger.
For reference, when I'm busy my pinches can go between 1/2t and a full 1T. Would you call this marginal variation?
Now, say those loaves are covered in garlic butter. One prep cook is more liberal than the other, you can quite easily have double the amount using the exact same equipment depending on technique.0 -
The facts listed for most restaurants are just ballpark anyway. Cooks don't take the time to measure out portions, so unless they are using something that's preportioned, it's just a guess. Just ballpark it then add 200 for the mysterious fact that restaurants can someone magically had more calories to food than it naturally has. You'll be fine.0
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I usually try to avoid them at all costs. If I can't, I try to choose what I know is somewhat healthy, ask how it's made, and then eat about half of it.0
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All this thread tells me is that I should limit any "eating out"....if I have no reasonable expectation, then I just won't do it as often. That way it isn't something that could in turn de-rail my efforts.
If I'm cooking it, I know exactly what's going into it.0 -
I estimate to the best of my ability and knowledge and use the recipe builder. And I try to overestimate rather than under to play it safe.0
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I typically avoid chains and fast food. I do find it difficult to calculate for example, what I had at the local Mexican place, because you totally have to estimate what is on that fajita platter you got. You can get an idea, figuring you get maybe 8oz of meat and then a cup each of onions and peppers, a cup of rice, a cup of beans. But it'd be nice to know that I'm not 500 calories off either way in my estimate.
and that's the challenge. Under these nanny laws anyway, Casa de Pedro won't be required to label anything, so for non- chain eaters, there is no net effect.
What is the difference between beans made with lard and without lard? What happens when the cook doesn't speak english? It's a recipe for failure.0 -
All this thread tells me is that I should limit any "eating out"....if I have no reasonable expectation, then I just won't do it as often. That way it isn't something that could in turn de-rail my efforts.
If I'm cooking it, I know exactly what's going into it.
That's what I do. If you have to control the makeup of your intake, there's only one way.0 -
This is ridiculously easy to find. Have you discovered Google yet? If not, hit the below link:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=restaurants+display+calorie+information
The notion that showing data is "nannyism" is amusing.
If it's ridiculously easy to find, please post a direct link to the federal law so that the whole class can read it.
The notion that forcing someone to take responsibility for you is not nannyism is amusing.0 -
What's your opinion on eating from restaurants that don't have nutritional facts?
All for it, because it usually means it's not a chain, and it won't be crap food.
If I'm ordering foie gras, it's not because I want to make sure it fits my macros or something similarly stupid. I have no problem with being responsible for myself, and knowing that what I order I may have to deconstruct if I want to log, and I don't need to be babied by a restauranteur playing at nutrition guru with their added data.
Furthermore, when I have my restaurant, if someone asks one of my staff for that data, I'll show them the door. I'm not here to tell you how to eat, I'm here to feed you.
I agree with you on the "not crap food part". I tend to stay away from chains myself. Its just moving to a city like Brooklyn and having so many mom and pops, I just want to get an idea of how people manage without the facts when they are grabbing lunch or an after workout dinner. People gave good suggestions like braking down the ingredients yourself or just comparing it something you have had before.
I don't need a fact sheet when I sit down at a restaurant. Because when I'm there I have made a choice to go indulge and enjoy whatever i want. Those kind of meals are not just for fueling your body but rewarding it because you work hard.0 -
I was faced with this yesterday and I HATE when they don't list it, but I just logged in very similar things, accounting for any extra sauces and ingredients and what not. I think over time we learn a lot more about the food in front of us and can have a rough idea of it's nutritional value, including calories.0
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There are a few restaurants in my area that I love but they don't have their nutritional facts online. I have emailed restaurants asking for their nutritional information and most are willing to give it out. I however do not let missing nutritional facts deter me from eating out. Just try to find something similar to compare it to, and just in case I always assume the worse so that I don't underestimate anything.0
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Just choose similar items from the MFP database. Nothing is exact, anyway -- even when eating at home or at a chain restaurant.0
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What's your opinion on eating from restaurants that don't have nutritional facts? I have a place near me that is targeted to people with a healthy lifestyle; serving salads, wraps, smoothies etc. but they have yet to make a nutritional facts sheet. I really want to eat there again but I'm hesitant because I don't know the facts. Is this being too anal? And even outside this specific place, there are so many places that don't have the facts. Should you save these meals for cheat days only? I am on track with my diet but I don't want to restrict myself too too much.
I think there is a law ( if you are in the US) where they have to release the nutrition facts if you ask.
Please cite this law. This would be news to me.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/business/24menu.html?_r=0 This article explains it. It only applies to chains though.0 -
What's your opinion on eating from restaurants that don't have nutritional facts?
All for it, because it usually means it's not a chain, and it won't be crap food.
If I'm ordering foie gras, it's not because I want to make sure it fits my macros or something similarly stupid. I have no problem with being responsible for myself, and knowing that what I order I may have to deconstruct if I want to log, and I don't need to be babied by a restauranteur playing at nutrition guru with their added data.
Furthermore, when I have my restaurant, if someone asks one of my staff for that data, I'll show them the door. I'm not here to tell you how to eat, I'm here to feed you.
I agree with you on the "not crap food part". I tend to stay away from chains myself. Its just moving to a city like Brooklyn and having so many mom and pops, I just want to get an idea of how people manage without the facts when they are grabbing lunch or an after workout dinner. People gave good suggestions like braking down the ingredients yourself or just comparing it something you have had before.
I don't need a fact sheet when I sit down at a restaurant. Because when I'm there I have made a choice to go indulge and enjoy whatever i want. Those kind of meals are not just for fueling your body but rewarding it because you work hard.
You can totally estimate it knowing some differences between restaurant and home cooking.
eg: burgers ae 80/20, sauteed items use ounces not T of oil etc.0
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