A word of warning about squats.
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So I am new here and see all this stuff about squats, new to the whole idea about weights too. So I tried the squats well as far as my creaky knees would let me until it hurt and then found I had some back pain afterwards. So checked it out on the net and found that I have poor core strength. So now I have to work on core strength and flexibility before doing squats. Just thought I would share in case like me you carried away by the squats enthusiasm and end up hurting yourself.
Very good idea IMO. Creaky knees shouldn't matter much. I have a knee that has been operated on 3 times (ACL reconstruction and two menisectomies for loose cartilidge) and have no issues doing squats or deadlifts.
How much weight did you start with? I would look into the Stronglifts 5x5 program if I were you. They suggest starting all of the lifts with the bar only and adding 5 lbs each workout until you can't finish the reps.
The idea is that lifting the bar-only and very light weights forces you to focus on proper form (*kitten* to ground, push knees OUT when you go up, etc) and creates a muscle memory of it that will help you when the weight is heavier.
In the end, doing those movements is going to GIVE you tremendous core strength.
Good luck!0 -
Thanks for your help.
Does it matter that I can't actually get past about 45degrees because my knees hurt?
When I did them again I did them with a broom handle instead of a weight as I thought I had overdone it.
oh and to make it clear I did it as part of a routine doing push ups off the wall, and back extensions as well as side leg lifts and bicep curls with 3kg weights.
Yeah it matters, it means you have horrid form.
Do look for some squatting videos from mark rippetoe, and possibly invest in the book starting strength... before you hurt something.
Agreed.
Also, do you squat wearing sneakers? If so, kick them off and do it in your socks or barefoot. Any compound lift is easier when your feet are actually touching the floor instead of having to constantly balance on two inches of foam.0 -
As others have said, compound exercises are awesome, but the risk of injury if the excercises are not performed CORRECTLY is high. It's important to nail down form, and work on any flexibility issues as well.
While you learn squats, there are several other exercises you can incorporate that will give your butt a great workout
- Lunges
-Split Squats
-Bulgarian Split Squats (back leg anchored on a bench)
-Leg Press (feet high on the platform, focus on pressing through your heels)
-Smith Machine Squat (I might be stoned for this one. But I personally believe it is safe, form is important. Many pro athletes perform smith squats in addtion to traditional).
ETA: You said you were hoping to lose inches in your butt. You need to be in a calorie deficit and just lose weight and that will happen. The workout is going to give it that lift and firmness as you lose weight so like what you see when you get to your goal.
You should do what works for you, of course. I've always found that Smith Machine squats put tremendous stress on my lower back and hurt after a few reps.
I don't really see any reason that you'd do all those other movements with free weights then use a machine for squats, but again if it works for you keep doing it. You will get a lot more of a core/trunk workout doing them with barbells though.0 -
Honestly, Starting Strength will give you WAY more information about correct form than StrongLifts will. I'd go find the book. I bought mine off amazon.ca.
Also, I read somewhere (can't remember where) Rippetoe talking about training a woman who couldn't do a bodyweight squat, so he had her started on 55lbs deadlifts to get her strength up before she could squat.
And yes, squatting below parallel is good for the knees. If it's just a flexibility issue, keep going!
And to the person addicted to bodyweight squats -- how do you make progress? Ok, pistol squats, but surely you get to a point where you can do 50 of those, and then, as someone said, it becomes cardio. The nice thing about a barbell is that it's practically infinitely scalable. You can start with a broom handle or a piece of PVC pipe, and keep adding just a little bit every workout until 2 years later, you can squat with a 315lb barbell on your back. Not trying to criticize, I'm genuinely curious -- where do you go after pistol squats?
Dude, when I have the problem of needing to go somewhere after pistol squats, I'm gonna worry about that. It's a long way off.
I'm on the road, no gym, and my leg day is mo than enough for me at the moment:
Jumping squats
Assisted pistol squats
Sumo squats with resistance band
TRX hip press or leg curl
TRX back extension
TRX pike
TRX one leg lunges
Sometimes I do one leg resistance band deadlifts0 -
^As I said above, we all do what we find works for us. For the bodyweight lifter, he knows weights are there if he ever feels he needs to ramp things up. Until then, keep doing what works and what you enjoy.0
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I was having a problem with squats hurting my knees (especially my left one, that one has given my trouble going down stairs as well) and when I talked to the owner of the gym he said my form was off. He had me lightly hold on to a bar (that didn't move) and push my butt out and sit back like I was going to sit in a chair. I felt it in my muscles, not my knee then.0
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^As I said above, we all do what we find works for us. For the bodyweight lifter, he knows weights are there if he ever feels he needs to ramp things up. Until then, keep doing what works and what you enjoy.
Unless it's the smith machine you enjoy lol.0 -
Thanks for your help.
Does it matter that I can't actually get past about 45degrees because my knees hurt?
When I did them again I did them with a broom handle instead of a weight as I thought I had overdone it.
oh and to make it clear I did it as part of a routine doing push ups off the wall, and back extensions as well as side leg lifts and bicep curls with 3kg weights.
Yeah it matters, it means you have horrid form.
Do look for some squatting videos from mark rippetoe, and possibly invest in the book starting strength... before you hurt something.
Agreed.
Also, do you squat wearing sneakers? If so, kick them off and do it in your socks or barefoot. Any compound lift is easier when your feet are actually touching the floor instead of having to constantly balance on two inches of foam.
Yeah, definitely. I do all my lifting in five fingers, gives good positive grip on the ground, without a bunch of crap in between. Chuck Taylors would give you some massive lifting cred too.
Nothing good (imo) comes from using thick foot coffins when lifting.0 -
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bump to read later0
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I think you should work on doing bodyweight squats initially, until you can go to parallel or just under parallel. What you are doing right now, not being able to go past 45 is basically a half-squat....so your hamstrings get taken out of the equation and all the stress is on the quads and the knees.
Look up some form videos and start stretching, maybe practice doing some wall squats to get your body to parallel, then get a broom stick or something similar and work on going down to parallel with good form...once your form is squared away and your body lets you actually get where you need to be, then go back to doing it weighted.
This is just a suggestion.0 -
Another vote for Starting Strength. I'm reading it for the first time now and am amazed at how much I've learned about proper squat form. This for someone show's done heavy back squats for 20+ years.0
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Squats were an impossibility all of my life due to joint problems. However, when I changed WHAT I eat I resolved a very long list of health problems including chronic joint pain (was diagnosed as a child with cartilage disease in knees). Arthritis, at a young age, "runs in my family", as in all of them have arthritis by age 40... and all of them eat just like I used to.
I am now 40 years old and I am a squatting fool. No pain, no damage, just feels great. I squat here, I squat there, I squat everywhere. (Surprise, the human body is designed to squat!)
So, yes, for some people, squats are probably something to avoid... but why not just eat healthy food (and I don't mean grain and sugar) instead? Or not, I don't care.
Re: form. I have not "studied" form, I just do what feels good. However, I can imagine that being careless, one could get injured but I still think it's a diet related thing. At least for me it was.0 -
#1. Learn proper form - if you can get a trainer or someone to teach you, all the better.
#2. THEN add weight.
It took me a few months to get proper form down, i have bad knees as well (cartilage is all smashed from being hit by an SVU while walking) but I went slow and finally got to where i could get down really low. THEN my trainer added weights.0 -
I'll bump this for the So you think you can squat...
Be careful if you use the Smith machine, Mixed views on that one, but in general, strength based sites, tend to recommend avoid the use of that.
As for knee's, It's more than likely form. Lower back pain, possibly form, might be leaning forward when starting to get up, eitherway, unable to tell unless you video it. Take a few video's watch them back as you check out the so you think you can squat series.
Depends on what you mean in terms of pain, mild discomfort you may be able to get away with, any more pain, I'd work on Flexibility first.
If it's Core, try the plank, and Progress to an RKC plank - where you tense every muscle in the body while doing a plank, takes a bit of practise, but the end result is that you'll be more comfortable keeping your Back\Abs tight, Elbow's under the bar, chest up. Once you can do it right, feel free to curse me.. I can plank well over 5 minutes, RKC just gets to 60 Seconds!
A tip that I got recently, was regarding breathing.. Big BELLY breath, then descend, Breath out on the way up, your belly should expand when you breath in, it has helped me stay more upright in my squats0 -
Squat form is soooooo important I speak from experience , lower back pain = bad form , and weak core like you already said . I have since fixed this and am able to take more weight on my bar and squat longer and deeper than ever before!!!!!0
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I'll bump this for the So you think you can squat...
Be careful if you use the Smith machine, Mixed views on that one, but in general, strength based sites, tend to recommend avoid the use of that.
As for knee's, It's more than likely form. Lower back pain, possibly form, might be leaning forward when starting to get up, eitherway, unable to tell unless you video it. Take a few video's watch them back as you check out the so you think you can squat series.
Depends on what you mean in terms of pain, mild discomfort you may be able to get away with, any more pain, I'd work on Flexibility first.
If it's Core, try the plank, and Progress to an RKC plank - where you tense every muscle in the body while doing a plank, takes a bit of practise, but the end result is that you'll be more comfortable keeping your Back\Abs tight, Elbow's under the bar, chest up. Once you can do it right, feel free to curse me.. I can plank well over 5 minutes, RKC just gets to 60 Seconds!
A tip that I got recently, was regarding breathing.. Big BELLY breath, then descend, Breath out on the way up, your belly should expand when you breath in, it has helped me stay more upright in my squats
^^^^THIS^^0 -
I'll bump this for the So you think you can squat...
Be careful if you use the Smith machine, Mixed views on that one, but in general, strength based sites, tend to recommend avoid the use of that.
As for knee's, It's more than likely form. Lower back pain, possibly form, might be leaning forward when starting to get up, eitherway, unable to tell unless you video it. Take a few video's watch them back as you check out the so you think you can squat series.
Depends on what you mean in terms of pain, mild discomfort you may be able to get away with, any more pain, I'd work on Flexibility first.
If it's Core, try the plank, and Progress to an RKC plank - where you tense every muscle in the body while doing a plank, takes a bit of practise, but the end result is that you'll be more comfortable keeping your Back\Abs tight, Elbow's under the bar, chest up. Once you can do it right, feel free to curse me.. I can plank well over 5 minutes, RKC just gets to 60 Seconds!
A tip that I got recently, was regarding breathing.. Big BELLY breath, then descend, Breath out on the way up, your belly should expand when you breath in, it has helped me stay more upright in my squats
You'll probably do even better if you move on to even better breathing. Your lungs are not in your belly! If you can manage to maximize the motion of your ribs, not just in the front but in the back, you'll have an even better breath. Your viscera will still be pushed aside by your diaphragm, so no worries there, you'll still have a "belly breath", but it will be a consequence of being free.0 -
Yeah this is actually a warning against half-a$$ed squats with poor form and too much weight.0
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I'll bump this for the So you think you can squat...
Be careful if you use the Smith machine, Mixed views on that one, but in general, strength based sites, tend to recommend avoid the use of that.
As for knee's, It's more than likely form. Lower back pain, possibly form, might be leaning forward when starting to get up, eitherway, unable to tell unless you video it. Take a few video's watch them back as you check out the so you think you can squat series.
Depends on what you mean in terms of pain, mild discomfort you may be able to get away with, any more pain, I'd work on Flexibility first.
If it's Core, try the plank, and Progress to an RKC plank - where you tense every muscle in the body while doing a plank, takes a bit of practise, but the end result is that you'll be more comfortable keeping your Back\Abs tight, Elbow's under the bar, chest up. Once you can do it right, feel free to curse me.. I can plank well over 5 minutes, RKC just gets to 60 Seconds!
A tip that I got recently, was regarding breathing.. Big BELLY breath, then descend, Breath out on the way up, your belly should expand when you breath in, it has helped me stay more upright in my squats
You'll probably do even better if you move on to even better breathing. Your lungs are not in your belly! If you can manage to maximize the motion of your ribs, not just in the front but in the back, you'll have an even better breath. Your viscera will still be pushed aside by your diaphragm, so no worries there, you'll still have a "belly breath", but it will be a consequence of being free.
Yeah, I know they are not, I just meant it as a simple queue to not suck your stomach in when breathing in like so many people do..
Good shout on expanding the ribs as well...I've just done it for so long it's a habit now..0 -
I'll bump this for the So you think you can squat...
Be careful if you use the Smith machine, Mixed views on that one, but in general, strength based sites, tend to recommend avoid the use of that.
As for knee's, It's more than likely form. Lower back pain, possibly form, might be leaning forward when starting to get up, eitherway, unable to tell unless you video it. Take a few video's watch them back as you check out the so you think you can squat series.
Depends on what you mean in terms of pain, mild discomfort you may be able to get away with, any more pain, I'd work on Flexibility first.
If it's Core, try the plank, and Progress to an RKC plank - where you tense every muscle in the body while doing a plank, takes a bit of practise, but the end result is that you'll be more comfortable keeping your Back\Abs tight, Elbow's under the bar, chest up. Once you can do it right, feel free to curse me.. I can plank well over 5 minutes, RKC just gets to 60 Seconds!
A tip that I got recently, was regarding breathing.. Big BELLY breath, then descend, Breath out on the way up, your belly should expand when you breath in, it has helped me stay more upright in my squats
You'll probably do even better if you move on to even better breathing. Your lungs are not in your belly! If you can manage to maximize the motion of your ribs, not just in the front but in the back, you'll have an even better breath. Your viscera will still be pushed aside by your diaphragm, so no worries there, you'll still have a "belly breath", but it will be a consequence of being free.
Yeah, I know they are not, I just meant it as a simple queue to not suck your stomach in when breathing in like so many people do..
Good shout on expanding the ribs as well...I've just done it for so long it's a habit now..
I'm a professional breather (I sing for a living), so I think about it all day. There are different schools of thought on the matter, but I am with the camp that feels the diaphragm is involuntary, and tends to move a lot as long as you don't stop it from doing so. So if you initiate from the intercostals, and don't get in the way, you are golden! Good stuff man!0 -
Everybody's already given you great advice, so I won't rehash everything that's been mentioned, however I will point out one thing that nobody's mentioned yet:
If this is your first time squatting, you're going to be sore. No way around it. Even if you had spot-on-perfect form, you're still gonna hurt like an SOB for the first week or two. My quads hurt, my stomach hurt, my back hurt, my knees hurt, hell, even my feet hurt the first week I did squats. And I started with just the bar.
Week 2? No more pain. Just the normal jelly-muscle fatigue immediately after a workout. I'm now in week 5 of Stronglifts (which has you squatting 3x per week), and I still don't have any pain at all after my workouts.0 -
In my month on MFP, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've thought "hey that's good advice". This thread provided one of them.
I've been lifting for about 6 weeks now. I've got little flexibility right now, so I've been unable to get my knees below about 45 degrees. After reading this thread, I did squats this afternoon, took off about 40 pounds just to go as low as I can, which still sadly isn't "parallel" where butt is as low as knee. But I'll just stay at this lower weight until that happens then build back up.0 -
Thanks all you have all been very helpful. Going to read over this thread again and have a look at the books and sites you have suggested.0
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Thanks for the heads up my knees already bother me ,so guess I will be putting those off for now at least.0
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I messed up my left knee real bad from letting my ego decide how much weight to use. Do NOT use the smith machine for squats. And ya, the soreness goes away if you're consistent.0
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bump0
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In my month on MFP, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've thought "hey that's good advice". This thread provided one of them.
I've been lifting for about 6 weeks now. I've got little flexibility right now, so I've been unable to get my knees below about 45 degrees. After reading this thread, I did squats this afternoon, took off about 40 pounds just to go as low as I can, which still sadly isn't "parallel" where butt is as low as knee. But I'll just stay at this lower weight until that happens then build back up.
Stretch those hamstrings!
Might not seem right, but they articulate 2 joints, knee with lower leg up, and hip with upper leg back.
Even though the squat may not have the knee aspect stretched tight, the hip side sure is.
Can you touch your toes standing up with knees locked, or sitting on floor legs straight reaching forward?0 -
In my month on MFP, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've thought "hey that's good advice". This thread provided one of them.
I've been lifting for about 6 weeks now. I've got little flexibility right now, so I've been unable to get my knees below about 45 degrees. After reading this thread, I did squats this afternoon, took off about 40 pounds just to go as low as I can, which still sadly isn't "parallel" where butt is as low as knee. But I'll just stay at this lower weight until that happens then build back up.
Stretch those hamstrings!
Might not seem right, but they articulate 2 joints, knee with lower leg up, and hip with upper leg back.
Even though the squat may not have the knee aspect stretched tight, the hip side sure is.
Can you touch your toes standing up with knees locked, or sitting on floor legs straight reaching forward?
Wellll, I'm not quite there yet. I am stretching every day, including the hammies, but I started from a point of very poor fitness. It looks like I should add another hammy stretch or 2 to my routine.0 -
this sounds sexualLOL, I was a bit miffed
is this a british thing?0
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