What is Natural Food Anyway?

You're not .. good .. at this, are you?

Your objective: make up definitions that invalidate meaningful discussion.

Just following your lead here. My made up definition trumps yours.

I'm the only one addressing this from the OP:

" One of the big challenges is that the word "natural" is nebulous and is vaguely defined by regulators. "

You all seem to disagree with that.

You seem to be the only NOT addressing the OP at all. You are very caught up in "processing". The post is about "natural". Those words are not synonyms.

Processing enters the debate about if it's a natural food, since: "The majority of respondents thought that the best definition (at least among the four I included) was, "fresh foods with no added ingredients and no processing." "

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

See how it's all part of the same discussion?

Ok, we can use food then. Blowfish is all-natural food that can kill you if not prepared properly. Taro, ackee fruit, & cassava are toxic if you don't catch them at the exactly the right amount of ripe. Cassava, elderberry leaves (for teas) & bitter almonds have naturally occurring cyanide and can cause health issues if you consume too much. Unpasteurized honey can also cause health issues.

Any food can cause 'health issues'

Okay, raw honey contains grayanotoxins which are chemicals that are toxic to the nervous system. They prevent nerve cells from functioning properly, and therefore prevent your brain from being able to properly control your body. Grayanotoxins will be killed during the honey pasteurization process, but may be present in certain types of raw honey. It can also cause botulism and anaphylactic shock in some individuals.

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

See how it's all part of the same discussion?

You are making the assumption that honey as it is created by the hive is automatically processed. It is not. This is where the variation in thought begins. Once it--honey-- is processed (pasturized) it is a processed food, and would indeed be the near of HFCS. --in this regard your argument is valid. *Though I would also have to say that HFCS is more than just pasturized--it wouldn't exist without a great number of chemical processes as well--but that is a different matter*

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

See how it's all part of the same discussion?

You are making the assumption that honey as it is created by the hive is automatically processed. It is not. This is where the variation in thought begins. Once it--honey-- is processed (pasturized) it is a processed food, and would indeed be the near of HFCS. --in this regard your argument is valid. *Though I would also have to say that HFCS is more than just pasturized--it wouldn't exist without a great number of chemical processes as well--but that is a different matter*

No. I'm making the (correct) assumption that it is processed in the hive.

Once AGAIN: Can anyone tell me how bees can transform nectar into honey without any chemical processing?

vomit = cottage cheese. That's not ridiculous at all. :huh:

Of course it isn't. Cottage cheese is cows' milk that has rennet, a substance obtained from calves' stomach juices, added. The addition of the acid/enzyme causes the fats to curdle and separate from the whey. It is exactly the same chemical process. If calves puked, they'd produce cottage cheese.

An alternative is to add something like lemon juice instead, which is how you get paneer, often know as Indian cheese.

I'm not adding anything valuable to this topic at all, but this post got me thinking. The first guy who discovered cottage cheese, must have seen a calf puke and thought "That looks like some good eats, right there!"

WTF, dude? :huh:

Well, nearly. It's argued that where stomachs were used as vessels for carrying liquids, such as milk, if one were to retain some of the juices, it would have caused the milk to curdle/separate inside. So they would have found the milk had become curds and whey.


And because true hunger means not being faddy and pernickety about things, they didn't react with 'ewwwww! Processed milk! That's GROSSSSSSSS!', they found it tasted good and kept for longer than the milk alone - and presumably, when drained and dried, it kept for even longer.

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

See how it's all part of the same discussion?

You are making the assumption that honey as it is created by the hive is automatically processed. It is not. This is where the variation in thought begins. Once it--honey-- is processed (pasturized) it is a processed food, and would indeed be the near of HFCS. --in this regard your argument is valid. *Though I would also have to say that HFCS is more than just pasturized--it wouldn't exist without a great number of chemical processes as well--but that is a different matter*

No. I'm making the (correct) assumption that it is processed in the hive.

Once AGAIN: Can anyone tell me how bees can transform nectar into honey without any chemical processing?

More on topic question, can you tell me how it makes any difference in determining if honey is natural?

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

See how it's all part of the same discussion?

You are making the assumption that honey as it is created by the hive is automatically processed. It is not. This is where the variation in thought begins. Once it--honey-- is processed (pasturized) it is a processed food, and would indeed be the near of HFCS. --in this regard your argument is valid. *Though I would also have to say that HFCS is more than just pasturized--it wouldn't exist without a great number of chemical processes as well--but that is a different matter*

No. I'm making the (correct) assumption that it is processed in the hive.

Once AGAIN: Can anyone tell me how bees can transform nectar into honey without any chemical processing?

More on topic question, can you tell me how it makes any difference in determining if honey is natural?

We're not trying to determine that. I've already stated that honey is a completely natural, chemically processed food.

Oh, so just trying to hijack the thread with a separate topic now?

Oh, so just trying to hijack the thread with a separate topic now?

Already addressed. Please re-read previous posts.

Oh, so just trying to hijack the thread with a separate topic now?

Already addressed. Please re-read previous posts.

Um, pass. The universe is made of chemicals. I got it.

Fact: The universe is, indeed, made of chemicals.

Here in Canada fruits, veg, unprepared meats and fish don't have nutrition labels so I can definitely see your point. I would probably defer to the "is it an ingredient or does it have ingredients?" thing if I were in the UK. I know this can get sketchy too, but for the most part I think it would work out.

Do we just end up with a debate about home cooking rather than prepared foods ?

I could bring home meat, veg, butter, flour, milk etc and make a meat pie, or buy a meat pie. At least in theory the purchased pie could be identical to what I would have made, so are both pies natural, just mine, or does it cease to be natural when it's turned into a meal or product and hence neither are.

Exactly. I was eating a Kashi frozen meal while my husband was ragging on me for eating "fast food." He was eating saltines and cheese. Really.

The soy milk I buy lists 2 ingredients - FILTERED WATER, WHOLE ORGANIC SOYBEANS.

But they obviously don’t just plop a soybean in a glass with water and sell it. I don’t consider almond milk/soybean milk to be ‘milk’ either. Milk is just a word used to indicate how you should use those foods. It’s a marketing word. Goats milk I would absolutely consider to be ‘milk’ in the same way cows milk is milk. Coconut milk is milk, but it’s a different use of the word as well. (not that all marketing isn’t ridiculous in some way or another – your other criticisms of the add I agree with mostly). Sadly, it’s not even legal to buy unprocessed milk where I live, but you certainly can get it straight from the cow if you have a way to do that.

I hit on honey because it's a completely naturally food, which happens to have been chemically processed from other materials.

Now I’m picturing those bees in their little lab coats. Aren’t bee’s adorable, with their beakers and science? That’s totally how honey is made, I saw it on pbs.

I pass the test. Butter is indeed natural.

Horray!

After it's been chemically processed. By bees.

Who have repeatedly regurgitated it to partially digest it, then left in uncapped cells to dry out and attain the right consistency before it's capped. Mmmmm ... Bee puke! Hardly minimal processing, but it's being done by bees instead of those Evil Humans so that means it's "natural".

So what's the definition of minimal processing: washing with an organic surffactant? Peeling? Irradiating (radiation is "natural, too)? Where does the line get drawn? My personal belief is that "natural" is a marketing category ... And the activities of humans are no more intrinsically evil than any other organism on the planet.

Regarding factories not being found in "nature", define factory ... Define nature. A beehive is a factory for producing honey and royal jelly and more bees.

FWIW, I think of "natural" foods as something that I could have found and eaten 200 years ago somewhere on planet earth. Beet and cane sugar? Sure, as long as it doesn't go through a chemical bleaching process. HFCS, nope. Cheese, sure. Processed cheese substitute, no. Turkey, yes. Deli meat turkey, no.

After it's been chemically processed. By bees.

Who have repeatedly regurgitated it to partially digest it, then left in uncapped cells to dry out and attain the right consistency before it's capped. Mmmmm ... Bee puke! Hardly minimal processing, but it's being done by bees instead of those Evil Humans so that means it's "natural".

So what's the definition of minimal processing: washing with an organic surffactant? Peeling? Irradiating (radiation is "natural, too)? Where does the line get drawn? My personal belief is that "natural" is a marketing category ... And the activities of humans are no more intrinsically evil than any other organism on the planet.

Regarding factories not being found in "nature", define factory ... Define nature. A beehive is a factory for producing honey and royal jelly and more bees.

As much as I hate to admit it, you actually make sense...

We are supposed to think that "Natural" means pretty much anything that would occur on Earth should humans not interfere with it... but how would you grow a tomato plant without controlling pests? Even if you used "chemicals" that were safe for human consumption, it really couldn't be natural, since a human PLANTED the tomato seed, thus, humans are interfering with Nature (which is an occurrence if humans didn't exist, which is weird.... since we aren't considered Nature according to a human who wrote the meaning to the word... lol)

Anyway, if you made that tomato into ketchup, well... only humans really make ketchup, so there's really no such thing as "All Natural Ketchup". The better listing for "all-natural" would pretty much read in the ingredients:

"All Natural Tomatoes, Cane Juice (made from all natural Sugar cane)"

And the list goes on...but in technicality, it still couldn't be considered "all natural" because the tomato plant (or sugar cane plant) didn't just "naturally" occur in the wild, a human had to plant it, nurture it, etc. And the tomato didn't just pick itself...

"All Natural" and "Organic" are just MISLEADING marketing tools. In fact, I don't even bother getting things labeled "organic". This is mainly because I have no physical proof the company didn't spray the plants with horrid chemicals(that hurt people, and kill BEES), or genetically modify the seed that was used to begin the development of the plant I would be eating. So what would be the point in paying double to triple the cost?

In America, it has already been proven our food gets messed around and pass through an "allegedly" federal-regulated group that is supposed to protect us from bad food, but our food still is tainted from improper handling and processing.

The best thing you can do for yourself, is simply start producing and growing your own food, once a big corporation gets a hold of our food, the sky is the limit on how unhealthy it is.