Is science failing me here??

kzakian · July 2013

Hi guys,

I'm relatively new to the weight loss game. I've been logging for almost 3 weeks now on MFP and have been reading your forum posts religiously trying to get as much insight as I can into how to best go about losing the weight.

I'm 21 years old, 5'7 and 247 pounds. I've got quite a long way to go and so far I've been so optimistic that if I follow what MFP tells me, I should lose weight, because it's scientific, right? With that in mind, I've been logging every single thing that touched my lips, overestimate my calories, and underestimate my exercise - just to be certain I'm not going over. I eat 1400 calories a day and run between 1-3 miles on the elliptical about 4 times a week. I eat back most of my calories.

I've been trying to eat as healthily as I can. Me and my husband plan our meals at the beginning of the week and cook/pack the food for lunches and dinner so we have no excuses to go out to eat or be lazy when it comes to meals. We're both huge foodies (since we got married last year we've both put on a lot of weight - he's also a damn good cook!) but we've both decided to change our lifestyle to become more healthy together and lose the weight.

Sounds good right? Well since I've been logging I have weighed myself every morning and have only been fluctuating between a loss of 1-2 pounds total in three weeks. I have MFP set to lose 2 pounds a week. What's going on here? I know I shouldn't be discouraged since a two pound loss is still a loss, but it's really disheartening when I've got so far to go and am not making any further progress despite trying so hard.

I was under the impression that eating at a deficit guaranteed weight loss.. have I got my numbers wrong? I have seen some posts on here that say you need to eat more to lose more. I'm not really sure how that works. I don't feel deprived at 1400 calories a day, and I'm scared to go higher for fear of gaining. Is this just a case of wait it out and keep doing what I'm doing, or should I be doing something else? My husband thinks we're just gaining muscle from working out and that's why the scale won't budge. I'm not too sure.

Anyway, any insight or advice would be welcomed. Sorry for the long post. You guys are such inspirations.

TavistockToad · July 2013

You need to be patient.... You didn't put the weight on in 3 weeks, it won't all come off that soon! Keep at it, and you will start to lose.

Also, take pictures & measure, the scales aren't always right!

PhattiPhat · July 2013

You need to be patient.... You didn't put the weight on in 3 weeks, it won't all come off that soon! Keep at it, and you will start to lose.

Also, take pictures & measure, the scales aren't always right!

Yup, this. Took me almost 6 weeks to see the initial water weight start to come off. Don't give up, this is the key. Also drink lots of H2O.

atapley2 · July 2013

I remember hearing from a friend of a friend that even with diet and exercise it can take as much as a month for results to show. It proved true for my friend who ran for an hour atleast 4-5 times a week paired with a vegetarian diet lost almost nothing, until the next month. When school started back up again along with her second job she threw eating right and exercise to the wind but continued losing weight over the next month. She found she kept losing when by all rights she should have been maintaining or even gaining.

Biological processes take time and don't alter how they function overnight. The fat you have your body is storing for a time of need so if you are only decreasing your caloric intake for 3 weeks its mainly still going to go for the quick and easy sources before it begins to tap into the reserves.

I'm not an expert in biology, but I have taken a few courses as part of my chemistry degree. So I encourage you to go and research exactly where the body starts getting energy from if not from the food.

The best advice I can give is just keep it up! IF you lose to fast it all comes back anyway! Science isn't failing you it just isn't going at top speed.

Hope this is helpful and encouraging,

Lose4HealthNow · July 2013

Your husband is right, muscle weighs 4x more than fat. You are increasing muscle mass, that's going to affect the scales. What matters more than numbers, is how do you feel? How do your clothes fit? There's no doubt you've lost inches....

Greenrun99 · July 2013

My husband thinks we're just gaining muscle from working out and that's why the scale won't budge. I'm not too sure.

Wrong... Not eating nearly enough for that.

Your 5'7 and 240+ right, so if your on the elliptical (looked at your exercise journal) for 30 minutes and your going all out on that thing to the point you cant talk each time.. its more than 200 calories.. its like 400 at your height/weight.. I would pick 1 number.. like 1800 and eat that everyday no matter what and see what happens after 2 months. No eating back exercise calories no nothing.. just that number, keep exercising and pushing yourself.

AJ_G · July 2013

muscle weighs 4x more than fat

Where did you pull this from? Not even close...

alt1268 · July 2013

Your tdee is over 1800 at sedentary it will be more if you exercise. Please check out http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
to determine your tdee. Eating more is better and it does work.

kzakian · July 2013

Your husband is right, muscle weighs 4x more than fat. You are increasing muscle mass, that's going to affect the scales. What matters more than numbers, is how do you feel? How do your clothes fit? There's no doubt you've lost inches....

So far no change in the fit of my clothes, but actually I do feel wonderful! I'm quite a sedentary person and I've been diagnosed with depression for a while and havent felt like even leaving the house. Since working out I've felt so alive and so optimistic about changing my lifestyle - I can't wait to see some results!

chasetwins · July 2013

My husband thinks we're just gaining muscle from working out and that's why the scale won't budge. I'm not too sure.

Wrong... Not eating nearly enough for that.

Your 5'7 and 240+ right, so if your on the elliptical (looked at your exercise journal) for 30 minutes and your going all out on that thing to the point you cant talk each time.. its more than 200 calories.. its like 400 at your height/weight.. I would pick 1 number.. like 1800 and eat that everyday no matter what and see what happens after 2 months. No eating back exercise calories no nothing.. just that number, keep exercising and pushing yourself.

^^^^ THIS!!!

trogalicious · July 2013

My husband thinks we're just gaining muscle from working out and that's why the scale won't budge. I'm not too sure.

Wrong... Not eating nearly enough for that.

Your 5'7 and 240+ right, so if your on the elliptical (looked at your exercise journal) for 30 minutes and your going all out on that thing to the point you cant talk each time.. its more than 200 calories.. its like 400 at your height/weight.. I would pick 1 number.. like 1800 and eat that everyday no matter what and see what happens after 2 months. No eating back exercise calories no nothing.. just that number, keep exercising and pushing yourself.

yup. exactly.

kzakian · July 2013

Your 5'7 and 240+ right, so if your on the elliptical (looked at your exercise journal) for 30 minutes and your going all out on that thing to the point you cant talk each time.. its more than 200 calories.. its like 400 at your height/weight.. I would pick 1 number.. like 1800 and eat that everyday no matter what and see what happens after 2 months. No eating back exercise calories no nothing.. just that number, keep exercising and pushing yourself.

I've been getting the number of calories burned straight from the elliptical, but it doesn't take into account my height and weight. So I see your point. Then again I don't exercise every day, so wouldn't upping my calories only work on the days I work out? Will eating 1800 calories still make me lose weight on the days I do nothing?

trogalicious · July 2013

Your 5'7 and 240+ right, so if your on the elliptical (looked at your exercise journal) for 30 minutes and your going all out on that thing to the point you cant talk each time.. its more than 200 calories.. its like 400 at your height/weight.. I would pick 1 number.. like 1800 and eat that everyday no matter what and see what happens after 2 months. No eating back exercise calories no nothing.. just that number, keep exercising and pushing yourself.

I've been getting the number of calories burned straight from the elliptical, but it doesn't take into account my height and weight. So I see your point. Then again I don't exercise every day, so wouldn't upping my calories only work on the days I work out? Will eating 1800 calories still make me lose weight on the days I do nothing?

Straight from the elliptical doesn't necessarily mean that it's still accurate, either. According to all of the available information/calculators/etc, your body is effectively burning 1800 calories every 24 hours simply by existing.
Yeah, liver function.. your heart beating.. biological functions burn calories to continue.

That said, eating 1800 calories is going to simply fuel your body enough to keep going. The days you work out, you're just going to be creating a slightly larger caloric deficit.

teenhamodic · July 2013

never rely on MFP and never rely on machines to tell you what you're burning. sorry but everything is inaccurate

to those who say that it takes time - correct. for those who say it takes a month to see a difference on the scale? - wrong

you need to calculate your TDEE and adjust accordingly - as long as the trend is on a downward slope, then you're on the right track.

"the scales aren't always right" - i have to disagree about this general one size fits all maxim.

born2drum · July 2013

Hi guys,

I'm relatively new to the weight loss game. I've been logging for almost 3 weeks now on MFP and have been reading your forum posts religiously trying to get as much insight as I can into how to best go about losing the weight.

I'm 21 years old, 5'7 and 247 pounds. I've got quite a long way to go and so far I've been so optimistic that if I follow what MFP tells me, I should lose weight, because it's scientific, right? With that in mind, I've been logging every single thing that touched my lips, overestimate my calories, and underestimate my exercise - just to be certain I'm not going over. I eat 1400 calories a day and run between 1-3 miles on the elliptical about 4 times a week. I eat back most of my calories.

I've been trying to eat as healthily as I can. Me and my husband plan our meals at the beginning of the week and cook/pack the food for lunches and dinner so we have no excuses to go out to eat or be lazy when it comes to meals. We're both huge foodies (since we got married last year we've both put on a lot of weight - he's also a damn good cook!) but we've both decided to change our lifestyle to become more healthy together and lose the weight.

Sounds good right? Well since I've been logging I have weighed myself every morning and have only been fluctuating between a loss of 1-2 pounds total in three weeks. I have MFP set to lose 2 pounds a week. What's going on here? I know I shouldn't be discouraged since a two pound loss is still a loss, but it's really disheartening when I've got so far to go and am not making any further progress despite trying so hard.

I was under the impression that eating at a deficit guaranteed weight loss.. have I got my numbers wrong? I have seen some posts on here that say you need to eat more to lose more. I'm not really sure how that works. I don't feel deprived at 1400 calories a day, and I'm scared to go higher for fear of gaining. Is this just a case of wait it out and keep doing what I'm doing, or should I be doing something else? My husband thinks we're just gaining muscle from working out and that's why the scale won't budge. I'm not too sure.

Anyway, any insight or advice would be welcomed. Sorry for the long post. You guys are such inspirations.

First and foremost, 1400 is way too low for you given your weight. Second, you will not notice a difference in look until you lost over 20lbs. I didn't notice a difference until after 10lbs except for my arms lol where the fat seemed to melt first.

Your calories are completely off. You are not eating enough to maintain your body. Your BMR is roughly 2056 so you shouldn't be eating 600 calories below that. I think you should start at 1800calories and workout 3-5 times a week doing not only cardio but weights. Try this because it sounds like you are simply destroying your metabolism by eating 1400 calories. Coma-ridden people eat more than you lol.

Seriously, though, go on www.iifym.com and check out the IIFYM calculator. This is what I used to give you your TDEE and BMR. Apply it and follow. Do not follow MFP. Use MFP only as a means to track calories and meet friends. THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigGuy47 · July 2013

Your husband is right, muscle weighs 4x more than fat. You are increasing muscle mass, that's going to affect the scales.

Wrong on so many levels.

You need to be patient.... You didn't put the weight on in 3 weeks, it won't all come off that soon!

This is Right.

Arm yourself with patience.

lisajsund · July 2013

As much as I love MFP, I've had to adjust my goals here. I'm about 200 lbs and 5'6". Being slighly active, I am given a goal of 1720. I would suggest eating closer to 25-30% protein for your day, rather then the 15% they give here. I've lost weight with weight watchers, but I lost a lot of muscle on the program. I've been down about that 1 lb a week, after the first week. I do eat my exercise calories back and haven't had an issue. But, I agree, you must be patient! Good luck and know that each work out and healthy food choice is a step in the right direction!!

kzakian · July 2013

Straight from the elliptical doesn't necessarily mean that it's still accurate, either. According to all of the available information/calculators/etc, your body is effectively burning 1800 calories every 24 hours simply by existing.
Yeah, liver function.. your heart beating.. biological functions burn calories to continue.

That said, eating 1800 calories is going to simply fuel your body enough to keep going. The days you work out, you're just going to be creating a slightly larger caloric deficit.

If my body burns at least 1800 calories from doing nothing, and I'm eating 1400 calories a day, how is it possible I'm not losing? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind it..

ELEANOR43da · July 2013

I am no expert and only started the program 25 days ago myself. Yes I have lost 10 pounds but if I lose .5 in the next 3 I will be happy .With over 100 to go any is better than none. I am afraid to eat the calories I get from exercise ,but some people say they do no harm. If your are planning your meals, exercising I would say congrats,stick with it and you will see results . I have heard some interesting stories like yours and these people are now only pounds away from their goal. We never got there overnight !!! Keep positive.

trogalicious · July 2013

Straight from the elliptical doesn't necessarily mean that it's still accurate, either. According to all of the available information/calculators/etc, your body is effectively burning 1800 calories every 24 hours simply by existing.
Yeah, liver function.. your heart beating.. biological functions burn calories to continue.

That said, eating 1800 calories is going to simply fuel your body enough to keep going. The days you work out, you're just going to be creating a slightly larger caloric deficit.

If my body burns at least 1800 calories from doing nothing, and I'm eating 1400 calories a day, how is it possible I'm not losing? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind it..

You need to stoke the fires to keep it burning. If you've created too large of a caloric deficit, your body isn't happy with you. There's a lot of "this can't possibly be right" when it comes to weight loss and dieting. For a long, long time.. I thought that if I ate less, I'd weigh less. Turns out, you need to just feed your body properly.. find the sweet spot where you're losing or maintaining, then go from there.

kzakian · July 2013

You need to stoke the fires to keep it burning. If you've created too large of a caloric deficit, your body isn't happy with you. There's a lot of "this can't possibly be right" when it comes to weight loss and dieting. For a long, long time.. I thought that if I ate less, I'd weigh less. Turns out, you need to just feed your body properly.. find the sweet spot where you're losing or maintaining, then go from there.

I will certainly give it a try then. Thank you so much, you've been extremely helpful!!

squirrlt · July 2013

You may not be losing weight due to adaptive thermogenesis. Your body can adapt to function on a smaller amount of calories

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20935667

I'm no expert, but adding more resistance/interval training and increasing your protein to at least 1 gm per pound of lean body mass may help. Sometimes you need to change it up and keep your body guessing! Also, your carbs seem kinda high IMHO. MFP macros are not gospel, experiment to see what works for you.

Also YES like everyone is saying, your calories are too low! Eat more, but make it protein :-)

degausser234 · July 2013

I took a peek at your food diary and it looks like some days you tend to go over your sodium and you're not drinking NEARLY enough water. I don't think this is the main factor for your problem, but it might be contributing.
Also, feel free to add me, we have similar stats. I'm 20, 5'6, 245 lbs with about 80lbs to lose.

Best of luck and keep your head up!

superjean1 · July 2013

muscle weighs 4x more than fat

Where did you pull this from? Not even close...

This!
A pound is a pound. 1 pound of muscle weighs 1 pound ; 1 pound of fat weighs 1 pound. Muscle is more dense and therefore takes up less space than fat, but it DOES NOT weigh more. If you are losing fat and gaining muscle it is possible for the scale to stay the same, but your clothes could start fitting more loosely. The scale alone is not necessarily a good measure. Take your some measurements once/month and see if things are changing.

Also, if you're really being true to eating and fitness goals without sucess, consider seeing your doctor. Its a long shot, but underactive thyroid can be an issue with metabolism and weight loss.

Marll · July 2013

Yes, the science is failing you because the science you are using is wrong.

Ditch the chronic cardio and start lifting some heavy things. Weights will do more to shape your body than any amount of cardio.

Eat more. You're eating far too little and your body is rebelling. You're probably also causing some insulin issues which can make the body hold on to more fat.

Muscle does not "weigh more than fat". A pound is a pound regardless of what the material is. Fat is BULKIER than muscle, which will cause your clothes not to fit well. You can weigh the same weight with slightly less fat and look thinner.

Be patient as others have said. While it's nice to see some visible progress early on, most people it takes a lot of time to see anything significant, especially if you've been overweight for a long time, as you are likely battling not only fat, but hormonal issues as well (insulin, cortisol, etc. which can also explain some of the depression you mentioned).

I also personally fully believe in a lower carbohydrate, high fat and protein diet being much more effective for people. Many on this board will disagree, but I've seen results first hand in many people.

maybeazure · July 2013

I'm not a member of the eat more to lose more club to be honest. I weigh about 10 pounds more than you, but I eat less than you do. I am losing weight steadily.

It might be possible that your body is simply more efficient than many people's, and you might need to eat fewer calories. Or you might be retaining water for some reason and it will come off on it's own, but I can see how that would be pretty frustrating.

I think if I were you I would probably try to switch something up, because I would have thought you would see more of a loss in 3 weeks as well at your present weight. Maybe eat fewer calories for a week and see how it goes, or exercise more. I did look at your diary and I didn't see many fresh fruits and vegetables. A calorie is a calorie, but fruits and vegetables have a lot of water and fiber in them, which helps move things along.

quirkytizzy · July 2013

It took a month for the first 5 pounds to fall off. After that, it went a little smoother. Patience. It sounds like you're doing the right things so keep on doing that! Results will show!

kzakian · July 2013

I took a peek at your food diary and it looks like some days you tend to go over your sodium and you're not drinking NEARLY enough water. I don't think this is the main factor for your problem, but it might be contributing.
Also, feel free to add me, we have similar stats. I'm 20, 5'6, 245 lbs with about 80lbs to lose.

Best of luck and keep your head up!

I've never been much of a water-drinker, but i'm making a conscious effort to drink more of it now! Good catch.

basschick · July 2013

Yes, the science is failing you because the science you are using is wrong.

Ditch the chronic cardio and start lifting some heavy things. Weights will do more to shape your body than any amount of cardio.

Eat more. You're eating far too little and your body is rebelling. You're probably also causing some insulin issues which can make the body hold on to more fat.

Muscle does not "weigh more than fat". A pound is a pound regardless of what the material is. Fat is BULKIER than muscle, which will cause your clothes not to fit well. You can weigh the same weight with slightly less fat and look thinner.

Be patient as others have said. While it's nice to see some visible progress early on, most people it takes a lot of time to see anything significant, especially if you've been overweight for a long time, as you are likely battling not only fat, but hormonal issues as well (insulin, cortisol, etc. which can also explain some of the depression you mentioned).

I also personally fully believe in a lower carbohydrate, high fat and protein diet being much more effective for people. Many on this board will disagree, but I've seen results first hand in many people.

This! I doubt you're seeing weight gain from muscle in such a short time. Women have to lift heavy weights for many, many months to see even a small weight gain (unless they're a freak of nature or taking steroids :laugh: ). Lift weights, eat at or just under your calorie goal, watch your sodium intake, get enough protein, and you'll see some progress! Good luck.

BeachIron · July 2013

Are you weighing your portions or are you estimating?

If you're honest with your caloric intake, your exercise calories burned, and have your MFP base calories correct, then you will lose weight, unless you have a medical condition. Those are the inputs. Check them again.

The other stuff, sodium, water, etc. have nothing to do with fat loss but they will affect the scale weight. At the end of the day you should be looking at the long term trend line and being very patient. Again, if those numbers above are correct, the weight will come off.

superjean1 · July 2013

I did take a quick look at your diary (just two days). At first glance it seems you are within range of your goals (carbs, protein, sugar, etc), but then I noticed that you have a pretty good intake of complex carbs/processed carbs, but your bread entries are only showing calories and not the breakdown. I am guessing if they were logged, you'd may find you are going over on carbs.

There are all sorts of philosophies out there... Some believe calories in, calories out and it doesn't matter what they are. I lean the other way and believe that what foods you eat, not just the calorie total is important. I try to focus on eating lean meats, lots of veggies and a little fruit. I limit complex carbs and processed foods (bread, pasta, rice, grains, artificial sweeteners etc.). I find it feels like I am eating a lot, I don't feel hungry between meals, and have way more energy than when I was eating more bread and processed stuff (no more afternoon crashes). Eveyone is different, I am not telling you what to do, just offering up some thoughts.

Is science failing me here??

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