Chemicals: It's in everything, including "natural" food
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I just gotta say that people worry about all the "chemicals" in food, but when it comes to hygiene and personal "enhancement", it's not even a second thought for many.
Realistically the people who condemn food with "chemicals" in them probably shouldn't use hair products, make up, sun block, nail polish, or perfume/cologne since they are inundated with "chemicals" and put directly on the body.
Not to mention the air quality that one breathes (one breathes more than one eats), or the exposure to industrial "chemicals" (like hand wipes or sanitizers) daily.
Just food for thought.
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You are right. Why would you put something on your skin that you wouldn't put in your mouth? Luckily, there are tons of products out there that keep skin healthy without added chemicals. I would eat most of them! As for clean air, that is harder to control... I guess it comes down to the choices you are willing to make and finding the balance - control what you can, and do not worry about what you can't. Nobody is perfect and perfect health is never guaranteed!0 -
Compared to other industrial countries, the US has pretty good air quality control for the most part. Living in CA, of course the biggest evidence of bad air is when I travel from the Bay Area down to San Diego and have to pass L.A.. Coming out of the grapevine, you can definitely see the smog in L.A.I just gotta say that people worry about all the "chemicals" in food, but when it comes to hygiene and personal "enhancement", it's not even a second thought for many.
Realistically the people who condemn food with "chemicals" in them probably shouldn't use hair products, make up, sun block, nail polish, or perfume/cologne since they are inundated with "chemicals" and put directly on the body.
Not to mention the air quality that one breathes (one breathes more than one eats), or the exposure to industrial "chemicals" (like hand wipes or sanitizers) daily.
Just food for thought.
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You are right. Why would you put something on your skin that you wouldn't put in your mouth? Luckily, there are tons of products out there that keep skin healthy without added chemicals. I would eat most of them! As for clean air, that is harder to control... I guess it comes down to the choices you are willing to make and finding the balance - control what you can, and do not worry about what you can't. Nobody is perfect and perfect health is never guaranteed!
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I am still reading through this thread. But the original article is completely unscientific. One has to distinguish between WHAT chemicals one is consuming. Further, not all bodies are created equal. Some people might indeed put on weight from diet soda, others may not. I have an allergy to all shellfish, most people do not. So a one size fits all approach (either all chemicals are bad or they're ok) doesn't work.
Whether you don't mind eating processed foods or whether you do (I avoid them), of course, nothing is better than a balanced diet and exercise.0 -
What specifically are you speaking of being unscientific?I am still reading through this thread. But the original article is completely unscientific.
People who have reactions to certain chemicals should avoid them. That's not disputed.One has to distinguish between WHAT chemicals one is consuming.
How does one put on weight from a 0 calorie drink? Energy surplus is needed to add mass.Further, not all bodies are created equal. Some people might indeed put on weight from diet soda, others may not.
I think you missed the point of the article.I have an allergy to all shellfish, most people do not. So a one size fits all approach (either all chemicals are bad or they're ok) doesn't work.
I don't disagree with balanced diet and exercise, but one doesn't need to eat "clean" to attain it.Whether you don't mind eating processed foods or whether you do (I avoid them), of course, nothing is better than a balanced diet and exercise.
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Sure. And those standards (organic certification) do nothing to produce food that is more healthful of sustainable than food that is produced by conventional means.
Can you please explain what you mean by that?0 -
Compared to other industrial countries, the US has pretty good air quality control for the most part. Living in CA, of course the biggest evidence of bad air is when I travel from the Bay Area down to San Diego and have to pass L.A.. Coming out of the grapevine, you can definitely see the smog in L.A.I just gotta say that people worry about all the "chemicals" in food, but when it comes to hygiene and personal "enhancement", it's not even a second thought for many.
Realistically the people who condemn food with "chemicals" in them probably shouldn't use hair products, make up, sun block, nail polish, or perfume/cologne since they are inundated with "chemicals" and put directly on the body.
Not to mention the air quality that one breathes (one breathes more than one eats), or the exposure to industrial "chemicals" (like hand wipes or sanitizers) daily.
Just food for thought.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You are right. Why would you put something on your skin that you wouldn't put in your mouth? Luckily, there are tons of products out there that keep skin healthy without added chemicals. I would eat most of them! As for clean air, that is harder to control... I guess it comes down to the choices you are willing to make and finding the balance - control what you can, and do not worry about what you can't. Nobody is perfect and perfect health is never guaranteed!
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Have the same thing here in Alberta, Canada... I have to drive into the ring of smog above Calgary every day to get to work :-(0 -
Hopefully some will take the time to read some of the article.Interesting perspective!
I do think people need to understand a bit more about what certain chemicals are. For instance, citric acid is just dehydrated lemon juice (that's why the alternative name is lemon salt).
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Why? Who exactly is suffering by eating fewer processed foods? From where I stand, the only people suffering are people who don't want to put down the Spaghetti-Os, but feel somewhat threatened by those who think they're garbage. If you want to eat preservatives, eat preservatives. Nobody cares.0 -
People with lower incomes care. And letting them know that what they're eating isn't as bad as it's being made out to be by the "clean" crowd is informative. Thanks for playing though.
Hopefully some will take the time to read some of the article.Interesting perspective!
I do think people need to understand a bit more about what certain chemicals are. For instance, citric acid is just dehydrated lemon juice (that's why the alternative name is lemon salt).
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Why? Who exactly is suffering by eating fewer processed foods? From where I stand, the only people suffering are people who don't want to put down the Spaghetti-Os, but feel somewhat threatened by those who think they're garbage. If you want to eat preservatives, eat preservatives. Nobody cares.
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Sure. And those standards (organic certification) do nothing to produce food that is more healthful of sustainable than food that is produced by conventional means.
Can you please explain what you mean by that?
Organic farming is not better for the environment than conventional farming practices. The standards in place to regulate whether or not something can be called "organic" are not defined in any way that prevents wasteful or environmentally destructive farming practices.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/18/mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/
"But the real reason organic farming isn’t more green than conventional is that while it might be better for local environments on the small scale, organic farms produce far less food per unit land than conventional ones. Organic farms produce around 80% that what the same size conventional farm produces(some studies place organic yields below 50% those of conventional farms!)."
The same can be said of health and nutrition claims behind organic food.
"Joseph D. Rosen, emeritus professor of food toxicology at Rutgers, puts it even more strongly. “Any consumers who buy organic food because they believe that it contains more healthful nutrients than conventional food are wasting their money,” he writes in a comprehensive review of organic nutritional claims"
Organic, as a USDA standard, is not controlled in a way that automatically guarantees more healthy and eco-conscious choices. It's really just a marketing ploy. "Fair Trade" is a similar marketing ploy. What basically happens is that the standards are watered down by lobbyists for the major players in the industry, and those same players find loopholes to produce food with the
"organic" label. Consumers get a warm and fuzzy because that label *feels* special, but it really isnt. It just costs more.
A few other marketing words that mean very little (due to FTC, FDA, and USDA standards): all-natural, hypo allergenic, cruelty free, and non-comedogenic0 -
"This suggests that lycopene in cooked tomato products such as tomato sauce or paste may be more readily absorbed by the body than lycopene in raw tomatoes." --From the American Cancer society websiteMy problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.
Do you defy the laws of physics when you cook tomatoes?
ETA: this is just one example of the lack of scientific understanding the OP is calling out
ETA: not to mention that the health claims around lycopene are wildly over stated. There's only 1 FDA highly limited health claim around prostate cancer prevention and 1 preliminary study around ischemic stroke prevention.
Let me guess...you heard of lycopene on a Heinz commercial
Wow, for starters, you're rude. There are plenty of legit scientific studies about cooking vs raw food. Look up the Cornell study for starters. I also read conflicting studies and the conclusion is basically there are benefits from raw and benefits from cooked food. Why do you assume everyone is an idiot who can't find "scientific studies." I didn't get it from a Heinz commercial, I got it from reading for weeks about raw vs cooked because I was deciding whether to start consuming mass amounts of raw vegetables. Jesus, some of you guys are really high and mighty and think you are the end all be all to everything. Thanks for the vote of confidence that us plebeians can do a little research before making a decision about our health and food choices.
You do not produce more lycopene when you cook a tomato. Lycopene synthesis is not as simple as cooking a tomato. Cooking with oil will help extract lycopene and increase its bioavailability but will not produce more of it. Using such imprecise language is further evidence that you, and many other people, do not have a working understanding of basic science.
If you think that assessment is rude, I'm fine with that. But this is a problem we should work on in the states, where we lag behind most other developed nations. It's why clever marketing has made orthorexics of perfectly normal people. It's why we have so many chemophobes,
I think this is what the person meant by "increasing" lycopene. I have not taken chemistry since the 11th grade, but cooking food does alter it., as far as I know.0 -
"This suggests that lycopene in cooked tomato products such as tomato sauce or paste may be more readily absorbed by the body than lycopene in raw tomatoes." --From the American Cancer society website
I think this is what the person meant by "increasing" lycopene. I have not taken chemistry since the 11th grade, but cooking food does alter it., as far as I know.
There's a big difference between chemical synthesis and improving bioavailability of a compound.0 -
I'm a skeptic when it comes to scientific authorities.
When I was pregnant I had many conversations with older women...and at one time "science" told expectant mothers than smoking and drinking during pregnancy was harmless (in fact, one told me that in the maternity ward where she gave birth there were ashtrays hooked onto the sides of the beds.) It takes decades of research for the ill effects to be acknowledged, researched and confirmed. I err on the safe side and ingest as few chemicals as I can.
The "best science" of one era is what appalls us the next.0 -
The film "Food, Inc" is excellent. Shows the real "hidden" source of our foods and talks about GMO's. High fructose corn syrup is also in there - Film is a real eye opener. I got mine at public library.
Do yourself a favor and fact check the claims Food, Inc. makes. I'd be willing to be that some of the things they declare are overstated, misleading and/or ignoring contradicting data. Take a very critical eye when watching a one-sided argument.0 -
As a Scientist - we suck at PR. Just look at our record of trying to explain the evidence behind natural selection to the masses. Sorry, our brains just don't compute, we honestly just don't get WHY you don't understand it, after all it's so OBVIOUS. We're not being rude or condescending, really!
As a science teacher - I EXPLAINED THAT TEN TIMES! Get your head up off the desk and pay attention! Hehe sorry, but we really do TRY to teach our students about these concepts, even in high school, but YOU try making this stuff interesting for a 16yo....
As a consumer - I don't buy organic because I think it's one iota better for me than the non-organic stuff further down the isle (ha! organic, it's ALL organic, it has long carbon chains!) I do however have serious concerns about what effects some of the chemicals used in mass agro are having on our waterways... Giant anoxic dead zones in the gulf of mexico are a concern for me, and if supporting the organic growers will make mass agro start paying attention, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is so to speak. Just to be clear, I don't think mass agro is going away, I do think they can be financially motivated to behave in a more responsible manner....0 -
I err on the safe side and ingest as few chemicals as I can.
I can't help but feel you didn't understand the point of this post - since your reply is essentially saying you try not to eat.
I think this view is the view of the majority of purist eaters. It can't hurt, right? Well... how do you know that? There are lots of natural things that can do us harm, example: arsenic. Just as lots of man-made things could be doing us good! Example: cereal fortification and the vast decline in some nutritional deficiencies.0 -
Giant anoxic dead zones in the gulf of mexico are a concern for me.
Can you point me towards some data specifically tying chemical use and such as a direct cause in the oxygen depletion? I know there have been oxygen depleted dead zones in the gulf since about as long as I've been alive. I also know there are a few, or one really big one, up near the north pole that's supposed to be caused by some natural phenomenon dealing with fresh water meeting salt water. I'm not disputing it, I'm just asking if you could pull up something that points to causation. Thanks.0 -
Given the complexity of the system it would be next to impossible to prove direct causation, especially with the level of data currently available. Furthermore, there are probably an ABUNDANCE of contributing factors, but there is more than enough correlative data available to make a reasonable supposition that mass dumps of nitrates etc are causing negative impact. Trying to separate out the effects of mass agro, from the effects of an oil spill, from the effects of ocean acidification from the effects of (pick your favorite issue) is impossible. The effects of over fertilization in a water system are well established. As for specific chemicals, there have been a few interesting recent studies on chemicals showing up in fish, although most of these right now are focusing on pharmaceuticals. Yes, those oxygen depleted zones have been around for a long time, doesn't mean the cumulative effect of all of these issues isn't a cause for concern.
Also, I was being a bit dramatic to make a point. I don't think the earth is doomed or anything, just think it would be hypocritical of me to be teaching my students about this stuff and not be doing ANYTHING, even small scale, to try and make a difference.0 -
bumping to read for later...interesting topic!0
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If science didn't observe, reassess and change, we'd still be in the stone age. Back in the 40's-70's we didn't have the access to studies and information from those who refuted that tobacco was bad for health. Media and advertising (like today) were the information platforms that the general population viewed as correct.I'm a skeptic when it comes to scientific authorities.
When I was pregnant I had many conversations with older women...and at one time "science" told expectant mothers than smoking and drinking during pregnancy was harmless (in fact, one told me that in the maternity ward where she gave birth there were ashtrays hooked onto the sides of the beds.) It takes decades of research for the ill effects to be acknowledged, researched and confirmed. I err on the safe side and ingest as few chemicals as I can.
The "best science" of one era is what appalls us the next.
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I would just like to point out that "organic" and "mass agro" are not mutually exclusive.0
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No, they're not. Actually I intentionally purchase kroger brand organic because I figure that does more to encourage mass agro to clean up a little. Like I said, I have no illusions about mass agro going away, but I also know that major corps can only be "encouraged" to clean up their act through a combination of bad PR and consumer support for better products, just look at Walmart, they're suddenly MUCH more intested in "doing the right thing", but it has nothing to do with them actually caring about what the "right thing" is....0
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Thanks.. still going to avoid as many added and man made chemicals as i can. :~) To err is human.. but nature is perfect :~)
Syphilis and Black mold are not man made.
Yum.0 -
Some people on the natural approach are unaware that soy protein in many "natural" foods, has hidden MSG and Hexane is used to process it. Remember that when eating a soy burger.
http://www.cornucopia.org/hexane-guides/nvo_hexane_report.pdf
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Some people on the natural approach are unaware that soy protein in many "natural" foods, has hidden MSG and Hexane is used to process it. Remember that when eating a soy burger.
http://www.cornucopia.org/hexane-guides/nvo_hexane_report.pdf
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They should really switch to n-heptane. It's a hexane derivative, but it's so much safer. It doesn't form the toxic metabolite hexane-2,5-dione.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexane#Uses
So many things can be done with hexane and it's derivatives. Cyclohexane is pretty much every budding chemist's first experiment.0 -
I drink water from my private well. It tastes SO much better than the city water I get at work. I don't put any chemicals in it either.0
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"ha! organic, it's ALL organic, it has long carbon chains!" YEA!!! LOL!
My neighbor sprayed his apple trees this year, because ALL the apples were nasty last year because of bugs. I don't think you get decent apples without spraying pesticides. Anyway pesticides work on the bugs nervous system, not a humans, so far as they know.0 -
Trust me nature would have no problem with killing you. Man made does not mean evil and natural does not mean good. In fact I can't think of anything more indifferent to your survival than nature. There are hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, viruses, and bacteria. All of which could kill you dead as a door nail and the universe will move forward without a skipped step.Thanks.. still going to avoid as many added and man made chemicals as i can. :~) To err is human.. but nature is perfect :~)
It is humans that will miss you. It is humans that come up with ways of protecting you from the damage that would otherwise be caused by the ravages of nature. We have constructed buildings to protect you from nature's fury. We have found ways to disinfect the purely natural micro-organisms that would rain havoc down upon your body. Many of these natural killers can waltz right past your immune system undetected or they are simply unstoppable. Man may err but nature is far from perfect.0 -
I drink water from my private well. It tastes SO much better than the city water I get at work. I don't put any chemicals in it either.
Just be careful with it and get it tested for bacteria and whatnot once in a while. I'm sure the flavor is fantastic, but it could get contaminated with anything from viruses to your neighbor's bug spray.
Also, you don't always have to spray for bugs on apple trees. Some areas are just more susceptible than others. We had an orchard many years ago in Washington state that produced like mad. The only bugs you'd see were bees.0
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