Help me understand 5x5 vs 3x10

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  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
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    Do you wanna do a "bodybuilder" bulk or a power lifter bulk?

    I don't understand what you are saying here?
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
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    Do you wanna do a "bodybuilder" bulk or a power lifter bulk?

    I don't understand what you are saying here?

    Do you want to train for aesthetics or strength? I know you can do both but I think you need some kind of direction to really pick a program.
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
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    Idk I just mix in a day of hypertrophy and a day of strength training per cycle in my routine.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    1-5 reps - Strength/Power
    5-8 reps Strength & some Hypertrophy
    8-13 reps - Hypertrophy
    13+ reps- Endurance
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    Much of 'strength' is CNS adaptations. While you might not grow bigger muscles in a deficit, you can gain strength while in a deficit. :)
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    As said upthread, all that matters is progressive overload. At least that's been the case for me.
    Same here, so far. I've been lifting for 6 months so I'm not sure if it works for newbie gains only. But I cycle between sets of 15, 10, and 5. I have made strength gains on squats and deadlifts by doing sets of 15 as well as 10's and 5's, currently bringing my 1RM up to 2x bodyweight on both Squat and DL, so it's not like I'm making newb 'gains' just going from 50-55 lbs or anything.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    bump....
  • pastryari
    pastryari Posts: 8,646 Member
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    Tagging.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
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    Do you wanna do a "bodybuilder" bulk or a power lifter bulk?

    I don't understand what you are saying here?

    Do you want to train for aesthetics or strength? I know you can do both but I think you need some kind of direction to really pick a program.

    Even if one were training for purely aesthetics, the goal is still to get stronger. For a beginner though, just focussing on getting a base level of strength by doing all the full body compounds (assuming competent) is the best method IMO. Once a decent level of strength is achieved they generally look better anyway and then choose what direction they want to go with. If you look at programs by 3DMJ who are very successful natural BBers, the majority I've seen have a low rep element to build strength and then accessory movements in the hypertrophy rep ranges. (similar to Layne Norton's PHAT)
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    yes, you will get better hypertrophy results with a 3x10 setup than 5x5. It is more optimal.


    Maybe, but i don't think the difference is as exaggerated as people think.

    5x5 = 25 reps, 3 x 10 = 30 reps so the time under tension is not that different and the 5x5 group is going to be able to use significantly higher loads and progress in weights faster. 5x5 was the original rep scheme of bodybuilders.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
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    agreed. It's not like you are going to have a visible difference between the 2 rep schemes. (especially for noobs).
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    yes, you will get better hypertrophy results with a 3x10 setup than 5x5. It is more optimal.


    Maybe, but i don't think the difference is as exaggerated as people think.

    5x5 = 25 reps, 3 x 10 = 30 reps so the time under tension is not that different and the 5x5 group is going to be able to use significantly higher loads and progress in weights faster. 5x5 was the original rep scheme of bodybuilders.

    I disagree.......a little bit. More for debating purposes than anything useful to the OP, but it's a mistake to just compare the number of reps.

    The reps may be the same but the time under tension on 5x5 is almost nil. You're going heavy, powering the weight up, and momentum plays a big part in the lift. 3x10, done with proper TUT principles takes out the momentum as you move the weight a lot slower. So 5x5 = 25 reps, but each rep is around 1 sec. 3x10 with 3-4, ( much more if you hold the reps longer at the top) and you're talking about 120 secs to 240 secs of actual work.

    Anyhoo, just nitpicking. Just like both of you said, it doesn't make that much difference for a total beginner that they should be overly concerned about it. Pick a program, stick with it long enough to get results, evaluate, and continue. It's more important to wrap your fingers around some iron than to wrap your mind around a program or lifting style
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    It's not just the time under tension either. When you lift with something like 3 x 10 versus 5x5, you're pushing/pulling a much different load. Initially with 5x5 you won't be but as your progress you will definitely start using a heavier load. When you throw heavier weight at your body you recruit your muscle fibers and even nervous system completely differently than you would with a lighter weight. The difference in potential strength gain is pretty tremendous between the two.

    If we're talking weight loss, body recomp, etc, that's mostly determined by diet anyway. Your weight loss using one or the other won't likely be all that different with either lifting format.
  • schmidty13
    schmidty13 Posts: 41 Member
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    Some great points made by many in here. Thank you all for your input and thoughts. I find this all to be very interesting and try to learn as much as I can. Been lifting weights for about two years while trying to lose a bit of fat. I am happy with my scale weight, just not pleased with the softness of it. For the most part I have been following a 3x10 structure as given to me by a friend who is a trainer, but have been thinking 5x5 might be better since I am eating at a small deficit (again, not trying to lose weight as much as trying to lose a little bit of fat). Which leads me to another question. If I were to switch to Stronglifts (just as an example), is it advisable to still start the program with just the bar weight as prescribed, or start higher based on current strength? For example, if I can squat 110 lbs for 3x10, should I calculate my 5 rep figure and start with that weight, or go all the way down to the bar and work up? I hope that makes sense.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    Some great points made by many in here. Thank you all for your input and thoughts. I find this all to be very interesting and try to learn as much as I can. Been lifting weights for about two years while trying to lose a bit of fat. I am happy with my scale weight, just not pleased with the softness of it. For the most part I have been following a 3x10 structure as given to me by a friend who is a trainer, but have been thinking 5x5 might be better since I am eating at a small deficit (again, not trying to lose weight as much as trying to lose a little bit of fat). Which leads me to another question. If I were to switch to Stronglifts (just as an example), is it advisable to still start the program with just the bar weight as prescribed, or start higher based on current strength? For example, if I can squat 110 lbs for 3x10, should I calculate my 5 rep figure and start with that weight, or go all the way down to the bar and work up? I hope that makes sense.

    It's possible that you're beyond the benefits of SL5x5. If you can squat with good form 110lbs for 3 sets of 10 then no I would not go backwards and do 45lbs for 5 sets of 5. I'd say do one of two things...

    1. Start with 110lbs for 5 sets of 5 and then progress each workout from there.
    2. Find your true 5 RM and use either MadCow 5x5 or 5/3/1.
  • ijsantos2005
    ijsantos2005 Posts: 306 Member
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    JNick77 wrote: »
    Some great points made by many in here. Thank you all for your input and thoughts. I find this all to be very interesting and try to learn as much as I can. Been lifting weights for about two years while trying to lose a bit of fat. I am happy with my scale weight, just not pleased with the softness of it. For the most part I have been following a 3x10 structure as given to me by a friend who is a trainer, but have been thinking 5x5 might be better since I am eating at a small deficit (again, not trying to lose weight as much as trying to lose a little bit of fat). Which leads me to another question. If I were to switch to Stronglifts (just as an example), is it advisable to still start the program with just the bar weight as prescribed, or start higher based on current strength? For example, if I can squat 110 lbs for 3x10, should I calculate my 5 rep figure and start with that weight, or go all the way down to the bar and work up? I hope that makes sense.

    It's possible that you're beyond the benefits of SL5x5. If you can squat with good form 110lbs for 3 sets of 10 then no I would not go backwards and do 45lbs for 5 sets of 5. I'd say do one of two things...

    1. Start with 110lbs for 5 sets of 5 and then progress each workout from there.
    2. Find your true 5 RM and use either MadCow 5x5 or 5/3/1.

    I agree with this.

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