Butter vs. Margarine

I understand, but why the limit on saturated fat.............obviously there must be studies that show deleterious effects on health when too much is consumed and therefore these recommendations are in place for that reason. I've never seen a study that shows that effect and it's why I'm asking.

Wow. Really? What research did you do? There's like a good 50 years of research including level 1 evidence that shows this.

A famous dietitian in Australia recently said that despite the strong evidence against saturated fat, we shouldn't be asking whether butter or margarine is better but rather trying to reduce our intake in general and opting for truly better choices such as avocado.

Level 1.......ok, show us the studies that show causation, thanks. Also an avocado has more saturated fat than an equal amount of pork tenderloin. Does that mean I should replace avocado with pork tenderloin?

Plenty of studies suggest causation. None that I know of prove it. But show me studies that prove it is not a cause of disease.

If 100,000 people walk into a cave and 77% of them die. Later 50,000 walk in and 62% die. Over time, more people that walk in this cave die than do not. We know that walking into that cave doesn't cause death, because a lot of people that went in did not die. We may not know exactly why the people died, but that cave has an association with death. I'm not crossing walking in and hoping I'm in the minority that live.

Eating a diet high in saturated fat from dairy and beef (which includes butter) has an assiciation with disease and limited lifespan. I'm not eating a lot of it.

lol.

I understand, but why the limit on saturated fat.............obviously there must be studies that show deleterious effects on health when too much is consumed and therefore these recommendations are in place for that reason. I've never seen a study that shows that effect and it's why I'm asking.

Wow. Really? What research did you do? There's like a good 50 years of research including level 1 evidence that shows this.

A famous dietitian in Australia recently said that despite the strong evidence against saturated fat, we shouldn't be asking whether butter or margarine is better but rather trying to reduce our intake in general and opting for truly better choices such as avocado.

Level 1.......ok, show us the studies that show causation, thanks. Also an avocado has more saturated fat than an equal amount of pork tenderloin. Does that mean I should replace avocado with pork tenderloin?

Plenty of studies suggest causation. None that I know of prove it. But show me studies that prove it is not a cause of disease.

If 100,000 people walk into a cave and 77% of them die. Later 50,000 walk in and 62% die. Over time, more people that walk in this cave die than do not. We know that walking into that cave doesn't cause death, because a lot of people that went in did not die. We may not know exactly why the people died, but that cave has an association with death. I'm not crossing walking in and hoping I'm in the minority that live.

Eating a diet high in saturated fat from dairy and beef (which includes butter) has an assiciation with disease and limited lifespan. I'm not eating a lot of it.

lol.

Good comeback, man.

butter. /thread

May I suggest you sell your stock in margarine and invest in life insurance instead.

Yea, yea, I know. But I'm sick of these posts and don't feel like being nice or playing along anymore.

Always best to just throw a snide remark and move on when you have nothing else useful to say.

An ad hominem or strawman attack is the person's way of saying, "I have no evidence to support my claims."

I understand, but why the limit on saturated fat.............obviously there must be studies that show deleterious effects on health when too much is consumed and therefore these recommendations are in place for that reason. I've never seen a study that shows that effect and it's why I'm asking.

Wow. Really? What research did you do? There's like a good 50 years of research including level 1 evidence that shows this.

A famous dietitian in Australia recently said that despite the strong evidence against saturated fat, we shouldn't be asking whether butter or margarine is better but rather trying to reduce our intake in general and opting for truly better choices such as avocado.

Level 1.......ok, show us the studies that show causation, thanks. Also an avocado has more saturated fat than an equal amount of pork tenderloin. Does that mean I should replace avocado with pork tenderloin?

Plenty of studies suggest causation. None that I know of prove it. But show me studies that prove it is not a cause of disease.

If 100,000 people walk into a cave and 77% of them die. Later 50,000 walk in and 62% die. Over time, more people that walk in this cave die than do not. We know that walking into that cave doesn't cause death, because a lot of people that went in did not die. We may not know exactly why the people died, but that cave has an association with death. I'm not crossing walking in and hoping I'm in the minority that live.

Eating a diet high in saturated fat from dairy and beef (which includes butter) has an assiciation with disease and limited lifespan. I'm not eating a lot of it.

Oh my. For someone who enjoys arguing as much as you do, bcattoes, you really are not very good at logic. It is possible to prove causation in a scientific study--intervention studies do that. They would have to be pretty tightly controlled to prove causation, which is rather expensive; nobody is going to fund a study of butter. That kind of grant money goes to study pharmaceuticals, usually.

It is impossible, however, to prove that X does *not* cause Y. If you apply treatment X and find no change in Y, you have failed to disconfirm the null hypothesis. In other words, your experiment did not work, which could be for a variety of reasons--such as your set-up was bad, you did not have a sufficient number of participants, or they varied more within groups than between groups.

Your cave example is pretty hilarious, though. I'll give you props for that one. Perhaps those 100,000 people should try not entering a cave all at once. How's that for a hypothesis? "Walking 100,000 people into a cave causes death because they trample and suffocate."

I understand, but why the limit on saturated fat.............obviously there must be studies that show deleterious effects on health when too much is consumed and therefore these recommendations are in place for that reason. I've never seen a study that shows that effect and it's why I'm asking.

Wow. Really? What research did you do? There's like a good 50 years of research including level 1 evidence that shows this.

A famous dietitian in Australia recently said that despite the strong evidence against saturated fat, we shouldn't be asking whether butter or margarine is better but rather trying to reduce our intake in general and opting for truly better choices such as avocado.

Level 1.......ok, show us the studies that show causation, thanks. Also an avocado has more saturated fat than an equal amount of pork tenderloin. Does that mean I should replace avocado with pork tenderloin?

Plenty of studies suggest causation. None that I know of prove it. But show me studies that prove it is not a cause of disease.

If 100,000 people walk into a cave and 77% of them die. Later 50,000 walk in and 62% die. Over time, more people that walk in this cave die than do not. We know that walking into that cave doesn't cause death, because a lot of people that went in did not die. We may not know exactly why the people died, but that cave has an association with death. I'm not crossing walking in and hoping I'm in the minority that live.

Eating a diet high in saturated fat from dairy and beef (which includes butter) has an assiciation with disease and limited lifespan. I'm not eating a lot of it.

lol.

Good comeback, man.

Well really. You would have us believe that the saturated fat is the cave. You forgot the part where the people who go into the cave that have been studied consume the SAD diet for those comparisons. Those people also have a plethora of dysfunction like diabetes, abdominal obesity, IR, raised triglycerides or dyslipidemia, hypertension, chronic elevated levels of CRP, consume a high percentage of nutritionally challenged foods, trans fats, sugar and it goes on and on. This is the group that their getting their data from and have concluded that it's the saturated fat that causes disease in your cave......... blindly is an understatement.

I understand, but why the limit on saturated fat.............obviously there must be studies that show deleterious effects on health when too much is consumed and therefore these recommendations are in place for that reason. I've never seen a study that shows that effect and it's why I'm asking.

Wow. Really? What research did you do? There's like a good 50 years of research including level 1 evidence that shows this.

A famous dietitian in Australia recently said that despite the strong evidence against saturated fat, we shouldn't be asking whether butter or margarine is better but rather trying to reduce our intake in general and opting for truly better choices such as avocado.

Level 1.......ok, show us the studies that show causation, thanks. Also an avocado has more saturated fat than an equal amount of pork tenderloin. Does that mean I should replace avocado with pork tenderloin?

Plenty of studies suggest causation. None that I know of prove it. But show me studies that prove it is not a cause of disease.

If 100,000 people walk into a cave and 77% of them die. Later 50,000 walk in and 62% die. Over time, more people that walk in this cave die than do not. We know that walking into that cave doesn't cause death, because a lot of people that went in did not die. We may not know exactly why the people died, but that cave has an association with death. I'm not crossing walking in and hoping I'm in the minority that live.

Eating a diet high in saturated fat from dairy and beef (which includes butter) has an assiciation with disease and limited lifespan. I'm not eating a lot of it.

lol.

Good comeback, man.

Well really. You would have us believe that the saturated fat is the cave. You forgot the part where the people who go into the cave that have been studied consume the SAD diet for those comparisons. Those people also have a plethora of dysfunction like diabetes, abdominal obesity, IR, raised triglycerides or dyslipidemia, hypertension, chronic elevated levels of CRP, consume a high percentage of nutritionally challenged foods, trans fats, sugar and it goes on and on. This is the group that their getting their data from and have concluded that it's the saturated fat that causes disease in your cave......... blindly is an understatement.

No need for insults. Believe and eat what you want. And please don't take it as a personal affront that I believe the experts at Harvard over you. Their references and sources are well documented and you are just a stranger on the internet stating an opinion.

Why do people care so much about what I eat (or do not eat)?

They've ran out of other things to post.

why post on a forum about something, and then be shocked to get a response to it?

People still use margarine ? I havent used it in about 15 years. If you cant do dairy or something--just use a good quality extra virgin olive oil. If you need to cook something at high temperatures and you are worried about extra virgin breaking down due to the high heat--sub canola or peanut oil or even the light olive oil shouldnt break down as easily..

and why not just use fresh extra virgin olive oil on toast which is much more flavorful if you do not want to use butter

What about for baking? I use olive oil and other oils for almost all of my cooking (I actually even eat dry toast, not buttered toast), but that's not possible with things like pie crusts, tarts, etc. The only other alternative to butter I can think of in some recipes is shortening, and the same arguments against margarine could be made against shortening. Those of us who can't/don't eat dairy for various reasons still like to eat dessert sometimes, and we're limited enough as it is (just try finding the non-dairy dessert on the menu of the next restaurant you visit...I guarantee it's either sorbet or it doesn't exist). :ohwell:

Butter is definetly the better choice if your looking to eat all natural, and want to stay away from chemicals. I use butter and leave it out on the counter in a butter dish that is covered, so it's always soft.

Butter is easier for your body to process. Margarine has less calories, but if you think about the chemicals and preservatives in it, it's actually better to just watch your amount and go with the real thing. It tastes better too!

Great information love the olive oil suggestion! Never heard of ghee before but I might be checking that out also! Thanks for all the advice

Land O'Lakes makes a great spreadable butter with just 3 ingredients - it has just butter, salt, and oil in it to help it spread easier (you can pick olive oil or canola oil). You can get it in the refrigerated section in a tub.

I think as long as you are able to work off the butter than go for it! It is more natural and something processed! Less processing is always better!!! If you have an allergy to dairy then a good alternative to butter or margarine is Earth balance. IT is full of healthy oils and no trans fats, mg, or food coloring. I don't have an allergy but a close friend of mine does and she turned me on to this. I love it, so does my husband and children. It is pricey in its own way but hey, that's just a great motive to pace yourself! lol..

You can buy spreadable butter in a tub, just like margarine. It's a little more expensive, but worth it!

Thanks everybody! So now another question... The reason I don't like butter is because it is so hard to spread! What can I do to help with this? Leave it out for a bit before using it?

My butter dish stays on my counter. You don't actually have to keep it in the fridge. Mine doens't spoil before I use it all, and sometimes it will be out for almost 2 weeks if I don't get to cook a lot.

same here