Obesity never felt so good ;)

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  • ChiManLifts
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    Errr...he was just showing how BMI is not always a good factor in determining health or fitness, particularly when you have muscle. No one is saying you need an overweight bmi to be athletic, I think that's obvious.

    Good work on amassing all of those pictures, though-you have a lot of patience :laugh:

    Amassing the pictures is easy. Nearly every elite track athlete is BMI normal. Switch over to football players and you can get a bunch of "obese LOL BMI sux" in a hurry.

    Of course elite track athletes have a lower BMI, they can't compromise speed with unnecessary mass. Football players, depending on what position, train their bodies towards having force over speed. Neither one is better than the other.

    Your points are irrelevant. I was simply sharing that though I am obese by the BMI scale, I am in the best shape possible, solidifying the fact that the BMI scale is not always the best determiner of fitness. That is all.

    Bringing athletes and their different physical ideals into this conversation is unnecessary.

    No one is saying that you can't be muscular and have a regular BMI. We're just saying that you can have a high BMI and be muscular. No further discussion is really needed.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    Bmi: 31.3

    I'm officially obese.

    Just showing you how beneficial and accurate the bmi scale is!

    you need a master cleanse, asap...
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    my BMI is 25 = overweight..but I have 13% body fat..how the hell is that possible????
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    No one is saying that you can't be muscular and have a regular BMI. We're just saying that you can have a high BMI and be muscular. No further discussion is really needed.

    Except that your point is the most common point made about BMI in these forums. Of course you can be high BMI and muscular - that's in every thread with any discussion of BMI on these forums. The problem is it's incomplete and misleading, and there are people who clearly think that having muscle means being BMI overweight+.
  • ChiManLifts
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    No one is saying that you can't be muscular and have a regular BMI. We're just saying that you can have a high BMI and be muscular. No further discussion is really needed.

    Except that your point is the most common point made about BMI in these forums. Of course you can be high BMI and muscular - that's in every thread with any discussion of BMI on these forums. The problem is it's incomplete and misleading, and there are people who clearly think that having muscle means being BMI overweight+.

    Then by all means, go and aware them of this fallacy. This thread is not the place to do it though, as its a representation of the very point that you are trying to disprove.

    Have a good day sir.
  • ChiManLifts
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    my BMI is 25 = overweight..but I have 13% body fat..how the hell is that possible????

    How can it be?? Both of us are due for a fast.
  • Nishi2013
    Nishi2013 Posts: 210 Member
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    Bmi: 31.3

    I'm officially obese.

    Just showing you how beneficial and accurate the bmi scale is!

    Its okay fatty. You are here now. We will help you trim down. Hee hee.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Except that your point is the most common point made about BMI in these forums. Of course you can be high BMI and muscular - that's in every thread with any discussion of BMI on these forums. The problem is it's incomplete and misleading, and there are people who clearly think that having muscle means being BMI overweight+.

    Then by all means, go and aware them of this fallacy. This thread is not the place to do it though, as its a representation of the very point that you are trying to disprove.

    Have a good day sir.
    [/quote]

    This thread is exactly the place to add perspective. You are not the point I'm "trying to disprove". You are an extreme outlier, and that's worth noting.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    my BMI is 25 = overweight..but I have 13% body fat..how the hell is that possible????

    ^ This. My BMI is 25.5
  • sexymuffintop
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    My own personal opinion is that BMI charts suck monkey balls. That is all.
  • AlsDonkBoxSquat
    AlsDonkBoxSquat Posts: 6,128 Member
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    Bmi: 31.3

    I'm officially obese.

    Just showing you how beneficial and accurate the bmi scale is!

    have you tried cardio and a very low calorie diet? may help you with your obesity issue.

    If you need a shoulder to cry on . . . well . . .
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Way to generalize. No one was even talking about athletes here.

    I sense bitterness.

    Bitterness? The only way you can be low bodyfat and high BMI is through muscle mass. However, there's a huge misconception on these forums about that relationship. It takes a lot of muscle to be both low body fat and high BMI. People can look (and be) very muscular and normal BMI.

    it depends on the individual. I am short and have a large frame and naturally high lean body mass for my height. My body fat percentage is in the low 20s, it's 20% according to Jackson Pollack and 20-25% according to various other ways to measure it. So definitely in the healthy range (18-28%). My lean body mass is 102-107 depending on how you measure body fat percentage. The BMI "healthy" range for my height is 100-132lb, as you can see, my lean body mass is in that range, but I'm not. I currently weigh 135lb, and I've been doing powerlifting training for about 12 weeks (only 8 weeks of actual lifting due to 2 hiatuses). Most of my lean body mass is purely genetic. I've added maybe 5lb lean mass tops by doing powerlifting, and I really haven't been powerlifting for very long!!

    Large framed people can quite easily get into the overweight range of BMI while having a healthy body fat percentage, without packing on a huge amount of muscle. What you say may be true about small and medium framed people, but not everyone has the same frame size.

    And just so we're clear, because "big bones" and "large frame" is often used as a euphamism for fat.... by large frame I mean wide shoulders (as in the actual bones, e.g. long clavicle), wide and deep rib cage, and wide pelvis, because these increase the size of the torso significantly, which adds a lot to someone's lean weight. Also, having a proportionally longer torso and proportionally shorter legs can add a significant amount of lean weight without a corresponding increase in height. Some people are short because they have shorter legs, not because they're smaller all over, and frame size does not always correlate with height, you get short, large framed people, and tall small framed people. These factors also contribute to the accuracy of BMI, which assumes that everyone has the same size frame and same body proportions, not just how much muscle someone's added through exercise. Large framed people with proportionately short legs will have a significantly higher lean body mass for their height, therefore a higher BMI if the body fat percentages are equal, than a small framed person with proportionately longer legs, before either of them go anywhere near a gym.
  • ChiManLifts
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    my BMI is 25 = overweight..but I have 13% body fat..how the hell is that possible????

    ^ This. My BMI is 25.5

    Haha you too? Welcome to the fatty club.
  • 19kat55
    19kat55 Posts: 336 Member
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    :drinker:
  • LeanneGoingThin
    LeanneGoingThin Posts: 215 Member
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    BMI is a fine measurement for most of the population. Jacked people are the exceptions. But bf % of course is a lot better. :)
  • WhataBroad
    WhataBroad Posts: 1,091 Member
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    is this the man candy thread... :bigsmile:
  • willdob3
    willdob3 Posts: 640 Member
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    Being athletic or muscular does not mean you must be BMI overweight or obese.

    Yes, being athletic and muscular means you must have an overweight BMI..

    Said no one ever.

    See willdob's post a couple up. A LOT of people think BMI overweight is their objective. Because there are a lot more posts like yours than there are about BMI normal athletes.

    I'd have to lose a lot of LBM in addition to fat in order to be at the top of the "normal" BMI range for my height. I'm not planning to do that. That is what I based my previous statement on.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Way to generalize. No one was even talking about athletes here.

    I sense bitterness.

    Bitterness? The only way you can be low bodyfat and high BMI is through muscle mass. However, there's a huge misconception on these forums about that relationship. It takes a lot of muscle to be both low body fat and high BMI. People can look (and be) very muscular and normal BMI.

    it depends on the individual. I am short and have a large frame and naturally high lean body mass for my height. My body fat percentage is in the low 20s, it's 20% according to Jackson Pollack and 20-25% according to various other ways to measure it. So definitely in the healthy range (18-28%). My lean body mass is 102-107 depending on how you measure body fat percentage. The BMI "healthy" range for my height is 100-132lb, as you can see, my lean body mass is in that range, but I'm not. I currently weigh 135lb, and I've been doing powerlifting training for about 12 weeks (only 8 weeks of actual lifting due to 2 hiatuses). Most of my lean body mass is purely genetic. I've added maybe 5lb lean mass tops by doing powerlifting, and I really haven't been powerlifting for very long!!

    Large framed people can quite easily get into the overweight range of BMI while having a healthy body fat percentage, without packing on a huge amount of muscle. What you say may be true about small and medium framed people, but not everyone has the same frame size.

    And just so we're clear, because "big bones" and "large frame" is often used as a euphamism for fat.... by large frame I mean wide shoulders (as in the actual bones, e.g. long clavicle), wide and deep rib cage, and wide pelvis, because these increase the size of the torso significantly, which adds a lot to someone's lean weight. Also, having a proportionally longer torso and proportionally shorter legs can add a significant amount of lean weight without a corresponding increase in height. Some people are short because they have shorter legs, not because they're smaller all over, and frame size does not always correlate with height, you get short, large framed people, and tall small framed people. These factors also contribute to the accuracy of BMI, which assumes that everyone has the same size frame and same body proportions, not just how much muscle someone's added through exercise. Large framed people with proportionately short legs will have a significantly higher lean body mass for their height, therefore a higher BMI if the body fat percentages are equal, than a small framed person with proportionately longer legs, before either of them go anywhere near a gym.

    I agree. Also, you'd drop right into BMI normal with a minor fat % shift. You're barely over the top end of normal. You may well drop back into that category, depending on your goals.

    If I go single digit body fat, I'm BMI normal. If I gain a couple %, I'm BMI overweight. Shrugs. The track athletes are all quite low bodyfat, and all in "normal". If those guys bumped up to 15% bodyfat and picked up little pooches, they'd easily jump into "overweight".

    Couple guys posting above would both drop into "normal" with slightly lower bodyfat as well. To be clear, they're not in bad shape or unhealthy - but they work out, they're not shredded, and they're fairly close to normal. OP has a lot of muscle and not a lot of fat to work with, so he's an outlier. He can't drop to "normal" unless he tears his body down.

    To me, the BMI boundary between normal and overweight seems pretty close for fairly muscular people. Strong women with low body fat for women will probably be pretty close. Strong men with low body fat for men will probably be pretty close. And then some people will just be off the chart one way or the other.

    Most people with "overweight" or "obese" BMI aren't particularly muscular or low body fat (most people simply aren't particularly muscular or low body fat). They're actually just carrying around a decent chunk of fat. Might or might not be unhealthy at the "overweight", and probably is unhealthy at the "obese".
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Way to generalize. No one was even talking about athletes here.

    I sense bitterness.

    Bitterness? The only way you can be low bodyfat and high BMI is through muscle mass. However, there's a huge misconception on these forums about that relationship. It takes a lot of muscle to be both low body fat and high BMI. People can look (and be) very muscular and normal BMI.

    it depends on the individual. I am short and have a large frame and naturally high lean body mass for my height. My body fat percentage is in the low 20s, it's 20% according to Jackson Pollack and 20-25% according to various other ways to measure it. So definitely in the healthy range (18-28%). My lean body mass is 102-107 depending on how you measure body fat percentage. The BMI "healthy" range for my height is 100-132lb, as you can see, my lean body mass is in that range, but I'm not. I currently weigh 135lb, and I've been doing powerlifting training for about 12 weeks (only 8 weeks of actual lifting due to 2 hiatuses). Most of my lean body mass is purely genetic. I've added maybe 5lb lean mass tops by doing powerlifting, and I really haven't been powerlifting for very long!!

    Large framed people can quite easily get into the overweight range of BMI while having a healthy body fat percentage, without packing on a huge amount of muscle. What you say may be true about small and medium framed people, but not everyone has the same frame size.

    And just so we're clear, because "big bones" and "large frame" is often used as a euphamism for fat.... by large frame I mean wide shoulders (as in the actual bones, e.g. long clavicle), wide and deep rib cage, and wide pelvis, because these increase the size of the torso significantly, which adds a lot to someone's lean weight. Also, having a proportionally longer torso and proportionally shorter legs can add a significant amount of lean weight without a corresponding increase in height. Some people are short because they have shorter legs, not because they're smaller all over, and frame size does not always correlate with height, you get short, large framed people, and tall small framed people. These factors also contribute to the accuracy of BMI, which assumes that everyone has the same size frame and same body proportions, not just how much muscle someone's added through exercise. Large framed people with proportionately short legs will have a significantly higher lean body mass for their height, therefore a higher BMI if the body fat percentages are equal, than a small framed person with proportionately longer legs, before either of them go anywhere near a gym.

    I agree. Also, you'd drop right into BMI normal with a minor fat % shift. You're barely over the top end of normal. You may well drop back into that category, depending on your goals.

    doing so wouldn't change my health or risk of illness one little bit.... my goal at the moment is to gain lean mass and strength, I'm still seeing "noob gains" as I'm still fairly new to powerlifting, so I want to make the most of it.

    Additionally, I don't want to drop my body fat % any lower, because I start to get veins popping on my forearms and shins, and while that looks great on some people, I don't feel that it suits me. And why should I have to to satisfy some stupid chart based on people with average frame sizes, when I have a large frame? Even some health authorities have started publishing adjusted BMI ranges based on frame size. I'm in the middle of the BMI healthy range for large framed women of my height... which is 125-140lb. If I continue powerlifting, I expect I can be overweight even according to that while I still have a healthy body fat percentage (seeing as I'm still seeing noob gains), but in that case it would be entirely due to added muscle and not my frame size.
    If I go single digit body fat, I'm BMI normal. If I gain a couple %, I'm BMI overweight. Shrugs. The track athletes are all quite low bodyfat, and all in "normal". If those guys bumped up to 15% bodyfat and picked up little pooches, they'd easily jump into "overweight".

    Couple guys posting above would both drop into "normal" with slightly lower bodyfat as well. To be clear, they're not in bad shape or unhealthy - but they work out, they're not shredded, and they're fairly close to normal. OP has a lot of muscle and not a lot of fat to work with, so he's an outlier. He can't drop to "normal" unless he tears his body down.

    To me, the BMI boundary between normal and overweight seems pretty close for fairly muscular people. Strong women with low body fat for women will probably be pretty close. Strong men with low body fat for men will probably be pretty close. And then some people will just be off the chart one way or the other.

    Most people with "overweight" or "obese" BMI aren't particularly muscular or low body fat (most people simply aren't particularly muscular or low body fat). They're actually just carrying around a decent chunk of fat. Might or might not be unhealthy at the "overweight", and probably is unhealthy at the "obese".

    my point is that before I even started powerlifting, I would have been in the overweight range of BMI somewhere between 25-28% body fat (pre powerlifting), which is in the healthy bf% range for women. There was no health benefit to me from being in the healthy BMI range at 22% body fat compared to in the overweight range at 28% body fat (and now I'm in the overweight range at around 22-23% body fat, 20% according to JP formula). It's excess fat that carries the health risks, not having more lean body mass for your height, but the healthy range for women is 18-28% body fat, being 35% body fat maybe carries a health risk, but 28% body fat doesn't.

    Additionally, in my late teens I nearly developed an eating disorder because of the BMI chart and adult health professionals with BMI charts telling me that I was "nearly overweight" and "must be careful" and one sports coach telling me I had to lose 10kg (22lb) based on that chart alone.... I had visible upper abs at the time so my body fat percentage was probably around 18%.... so IMO BMI is not only a crock of s***, it's a dangerous one. Back then I didn't understand that it was based on averages and my frame size is non-average, and that I'm naturally heavy for my height because of my frame size so I should just ignore BMI and focus on body fat percentage. I didn't find that out until I was at university studying human sciences.... which pretty much saved me from paranoia about scale weight and continued disordered eating.

    The message that BMI is NOT appropriate for everyone absolutely does need to be out there a lot more than it is, including the fact that it's not only people who've gained a lot of lean mass that it's not appropriate for. Large framed non-athletes, and large framed people in sports that don't result in gaining lean body mass, can still be overweight at a healthy body fat percentage.
  • Eandretta96
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    That why I love doctors. Was weighing 135 for a male at 5'7 and she said I still had some weight to lose. Then she recommended I do a low fat diet. Great!