How to not gain fat?

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  • Brad805
    Brad805 Posts: 289 Member
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    Here is a calculator that might help. http://iifym.com/IIFYM-calculator/ Keep in mind that is just a target, so you have to adjust based on what you see happening. There is a lot of truth to the first weeks being difficult. Very short after starting many experience a 3-10lb gain. This is normal, and you just have to deal with it. Once your weight normalizes you can start judging how your progress is going. You should see your lifts increasing slowly if things are going well.

    UD2 starts out with four days of borderline fasting (protein and veggies only for the most part) coupled with some crazy long high rep workouts to deplete ones glycogen stores. At the end of the week there is a carb re-load (crazy amount) followed by some low rep workouts that are a ton of fun. I know many that have gotten very lean with this process, but they are the type that tend to take things a bit too far.

    At 20% I think you are fine shape to start any muscle growth plan.

    Good luck.
  • KANGOOJUMPS
    KANGOOJUMPS Posts: 6,472 Member
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    did a grave.
  • belgerian
    belgerian Posts: 1,059 Member
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    bump
  • AnsiStar
    AnsiStar Posts: 165 Member
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    Some really excellent advice here!

    In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know? I'm probably just overthinking but I just want to get things right this time, I never wanted to get like this, I always wanted to be lean but lost my focus and got a bit obsessed.

    In response to my program: 10 min cardio warmup on cross trainer each time

    Day one: Chest and Back
    Barbell Press and Assisted Pull ups 3 x 6+ 6 (20kg and 20kg)
    Incline Dumbell Press and Single Arm Row 3 x 6+6 (9/10kg and 12kg)
    Flat Dumbbel Flies and Bent Over Row 3 x 6 + 6 (7kg and 20kg)

    Day two: Legs
    Stiff Leg Deadlift 20kg
    Squat 10kg
    Leg Curl 35kg
    Leg Extension 40-45kg
    Abductor (inwards) 35-45kg
    Abductor (pushing outwards) 40-50kg
    8 reps of each exercise x3

    Day three: Shoulders
    Dumbbell press 8kg
    Lat raise 3kg
    Front raise 5kg
    Bent over rear delt 3kg
    Dumbbell upright row 3kg
    8 reps of each exercise x3
  • mdizzle99
    mdizzle99 Posts: 169 Member
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    In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know?

    As I mentioned, you should use the calculators as an estimate, but then adjust it as you see (or don't see) your weight change. If you are adding 10% to your estimated TDEE but not gaining any weight after a few weeks, then you can fairly safely assume your estimated TDEE is too low so you adjust it. After some time you'll figure it out; just be patient. :)

    And don't worry about obsessing. There is a lot of information to process as all of this gets figured out. You'll figure out what works best for you.
  • Binkie1955
    Binkie1955 Posts: 329 Member
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    http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
    this is a good utility to give you some guidance. I use it myself and have been getting good results losing body fat % and gaining muscle mass which seems comparable to your objectives. good luck.
  • HealthyBodySickMind
    HealthyBodySickMind Posts: 1,207 Member
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    In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know?

    As I mentioned, you should use the calculators as an estimate, but then adjust it as you see (or don't see) your weight change. If you are adding 10% to your estimated TDEE but not gaining any weight after a few weeks, then you can fairly safely assume your estimated TDEE is too low so you adjust it. After some time you'll figure it out; just be patient. :)

    And don't worry about obsessing. There is a lot of information to process as all of this gets figured out. You'll figure out what works best for you.

    This is good advice. Experimentally figuring it out is really the best option. Mine was only about 50 calories higher than what mfp guessed me at for maintenance (well for before I started lifting, it's quite a bit higher now). And honestly 50 cals in either direction isn't going to make or break it.
  • default
    default Posts: 124 Member
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    Increase the weight, decrease the variety of exercises and concentrate on big compunt lifts (i.e. for leg day do squats, lunges, calf raises, one set of deadlifts-train them as heavy as possible for you). You can do more than one muscle group per day, especially since you are just beginning.


    Or just do starting strength-mark rippletoe. problem solved.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
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    This is my first time doing a bulk, but my understanding is that minimizing fat gain is all about hitting the right caloric sweet spot, having balanced macros, getting enough micros, getting just enough cardio to keep your biochem in gear, sleeping properly, and avoiding prolonged excessive stress. That is, assuming no untreated hyopthyroidism or adrenal issues. Track your food and your weight/body campposition to the best of your ability to see trends.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    your routine lacks balance.

    For every push exercise you should do at least one pull. Can't see any rows or lat pull downs or chins or anything.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    For the amount of time you have been lifting and the amount of the weight, I would go to more of a full body 3 x a week. I like the AllPro routine which can be found here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

    Either that or a 2 day (2 x a week) push/pull split.

    I would actually recommend sitting at maintenance for a while you get your form down and the compound lifts up a bit. You may well get some newbie gains from moving to a different program (based on your comments on your current/prior routine) so you do not really need to be eating a surplus immediately.

    It is really important that you ensure you have progressive loading built into the program.
  • AnsiStar
    AnsiStar Posts: 165 Member
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    Sorry for the late reply!

    Could I not just up the intensity of that routine? I kind of don't want it to be a waste of money :/

    Also, I will shortly be going on holiday with my family to Florence for 9 days. we go every year so I know exactly what I want to eat but with no access to a gym I'm a bit nervous of gaining weight.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    re full body v split routine

    I have made far, far, more progress on a full body routine (stronglifts 5x5) than I ever did on split routines. I made the classic mistake of thinking that because I'd spent a few months moving dumbbells up and down, that made me an "intermediate" lifter and that I should be doing split routines. Fact was during the whole time I was doing that, I wasn't using heavy enough weights and wasn't progressively adding weight. Then on my split routine although I was using heavier weights (e.g. using a barbell for the first time) I wasn't making much progress, the isolation exercises I made no progress at all, the compound exercises progress was slow. After I switched to stronglifts the amount of weight I could lift went up very quickly in a short time, and also my muscles got bigger, and the ones i was trying to make bigger doing isolation exercises before, actually started getting bigger when i started doing stronglifts (i.e. with no isolation work at all).

    So I totally second the advice to do a full body routine that's based on compound lifts with progressive increase in weight like stronglifts (there's a few similar programs out there, any of the good ones will do) until you get to the point that you're no longer making much progress with those, at which point you'll be an intermediate lifter and need an intermediate program, and that would include some kind of split routine.

    Not sure what you mean by "don't want it to be a waste of money" - stronglifts 5x5 is a free download, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (a similar program) Is a book and not very expensive (about 10 dollars on amazon).......... if you paid someone to design you the split routine you could always go back to that later on.

    I'm eating at a surplus to make strength/weight gains, and to answer your original question, I feel like I've gained fat but the calipers say I've gained very little if any, some inch measurements have gone up, others have gone down, most of the ones that have gone up it's where the muscles have got bigger. I still fit in the same clothes, although my skinny jeans which used to fit my perfectly are now too tight in the quads/lower thigh and too loose in the lower butt area, because my quads got bigger and my butt got "perkier" (i.e. moved upwards). Bizarrely, I lost an inch from my hips even though I was bulking and gaining weight.

    I'm not tracking my food intake, I'm just paying attention to nutrition, i.e. ensuring i eat plenty of protein, healthy fat, carbs, vitamins, minerals and fibre. I never let myself go hungry. I'm working on the principle that if I stimulate my muscles enough to grow my body's going to increase my appetite to make that happen... this was kind of an experiment, i.e. if i gain weight doing this I carry on like that, if I don't then I go back to tracking. So far I've gained 5-7lb doing this. If the weight gains stall then I'll start tracking.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Sorry for the late reply!

    Could I not just up the intensity of that routine? I kind of don't want it to be a waste of money :/

    Also, I will shortly be going on holiday with my family to Florence for 9 days. we go every year so I know exactly what I want to eat but with no access to a gym I'm a bit nervous of gaining weight.

    The problem with it is that you are only hitting some muscle groups once a week, which is not optimal based on where you are in your lifting.

    Echo'ing neandermagnon with regard to understanding the 'wasting your money' comment..

    If you eat at maintenance you will not gain weight. There is no point bulking if you cannot get to a gym as all your gains will be fat.
  • kitkat4141
    kitkat4141 Posts: 379 Member
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    Great information on this thread!
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Not gain fat when bulking? impossible unless godlike genetics....
    or dat dere cell-tech
  • AnsiStar
    AnsiStar Posts: 165 Member
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    re full body v split routine

    I have made far, far, more progress on a full body routine (stronglifts 5x5) than I ever did on split routines. I made the classic mistake of thinking that because I'd spent a few months moving dumbbells up and down, that made me an "intermediate" lifter and that I should be doing split routines. Fact was during the whole time I was doing that, I wasn't using heavy enough weights and wasn't progressively adding weight. Then on my split routine although I was using heavier weights (e.g. using a barbell for the first time) I wasn't making much progress, the isolation exercises I made no progress at all, the compound exercises progress was slow. After I switched to stronglifts the amount of weight I could lift went up very quickly in a short time, and also my muscles got bigger, and the ones i was trying to make bigger doing isolation exercises before, actually started getting bigger when i started doing stronglifts (i.e. with no isolation work at all).

    So I totally second the advice to do a full body routine that's based on compound lifts with progressive increase in weight like stronglifts (there's a few similar programs out there, any of the good ones will do) until you get to the point that you're no longer making much progress with those, at which point you'll be an intermediate lifter and need an intermediate program, and that would include some kind of split routine.

    Not sure what you mean by "don't want it to be a waste of money" - stronglifts 5x5 is a free download, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (a similar program) Is a book and not very expensive (about 10 dollars on amazon).......... if you paid someone to design you the split routine you could always go back to that later on.

    I'm eating at a surplus to make strength/weight gains, and to answer your original question, I feel like I've gained fat but the calipers say I've gained very little if any, some inch measurements have gone up, others have gone down, most of the ones that have gone up it's where the muscles have got bigger. I still fit in the same clothes, although my skinny jeans which used to fit my perfectly are now too tight in the quads/lower thigh and too loose in the lower butt area, because my quads got bigger and my butt got "perkier" (i.e. moved upwards). Bizarrely, I lost an inch from my hips even though I was bulking and gaining weight.

    I'm not tracking my food intake, I'm just paying attention to nutrition, i.e. ensuring i eat plenty of protein, healthy fat, carbs, vitamins, minerals and fibre. I never let myself go hungry. I'm working on the principle that if I stimulate my muscles enough to grow my body's going to increase my appetite to make that happen... this was kind of an experiment, i.e. if i gain weight doing this I carry on like that, if I don't then I go back to tracking. So far I've gained 5-7lb doing this. If the weight gains stall then I'll start tracking.

    Excellent info here! Really appreciate your time to answer :)

    In response to the money confusion, sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant the programme I just spent money to get - the one I posted.
  • MercenaryNoetic26
    MercenaryNoetic26 Posts: 2,747 Member
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    Bump
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Excellent info here! Really appreciate your time to answer :)

    In response to the money confusion, sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant the programme I just spent money to get - the one I posted.

    thanks... glad you found it useful :)

    with regards to the programme you bought, you can always switch to it after you've progressed to where you can with a suitable beginners' programme like stronglifts or similar.
  • AnsiStar
    AnsiStar Posts: 165 Member
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    Okay so maybe early October up my game a little? Might have moved up my calories more by then o even have gained weight from the family holiday