The Men Who Made Us Thin (BBC link)
Seesawboomerang
Posts: 296 Member
I don't think anyone outside the UK can follow this link (sorry) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03863jg/The_Men_Who_Made_Us_Thin_Episode_1/
Very interesting documentary by Jacques Peretti about the diet industry. Did anyone watch it?
It addresses the issues of yo-yo dieting, counting calories, how the culture of dieting makes us unhappy, denying yourself works for a while but ultimately you'll just put the weight back on.
The overarching message was that the diet industry is successful precisely because dieting cannot work.
I like that MFP encourages a change in lifestyle and attention to overall fitness and healthier eating. However you still see many here looking for short term solutions or quick fixes. I'm guilty of it too.
Very interesting documentary by Jacques Peretti about the diet industry. Did anyone watch it?
It addresses the issues of yo-yo dieting, counting calories, how the culture of dieting makes us unhappy, denying yourself works for a while but ultimately you'll just put the weight back on.
The overarching message was that the diet industry is successful precisely because dieting cannot work.
I like that MFP encourages a change in lifestyle and attention to overall fitness and healthier eating. However you still see many here looking for short term solutions or quick fixes. I'm guilty of it too.
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Replies
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I wanted to see this but forgot. Thanks for the link, I'll catch up.
The more I learn about proper diet and nutrition the more and more cynical I become about the diet industry, which thrives on giving people false hope and unrealistic expectations.0 -
Downloading from BBC I player. Thanks0
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I'll be interested to read your thoughts once you've watched it. It really made me question my attitude and some of my thought processes.0
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This is precisely why the weight loss industry is a booming business. Everybody wants a magical quick fix.you still see many here looking for short term solutions or quick fixes.
Losing the weight with a proper diet and exercise is slow and tedious. It works well, but the average person doesn't have the patience for slow weight loss. After all they have a wedding to attend in 6 weeks and they need the weight off right now.0 -
Yes, I did - it was fascinating. The idea that someone just came up with an arbitrary idea of 'overweight' and then said that everybody was, and started selling them products because of it, is, well...frightening.
Even better, it's a four-part series! So it'll be interesting to see what comes next and what they say about the market (for, surely, that is what it is) today.0 -
That fascinated me too: that basically even the health professionals were directed by insurance companies setting terms for ideal weights!
I'll watch the upcoming episodes for sure.
Some of the arguments were a little disingenuous I felt. For example, the situation of those test subjects kept at almost starvation level were clearly not going nuts from lack of calories alone; being incarcerated with no natural light might have played a part
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I will have a look, thanks for sharing. You are right, many looking for fast solution. They don't get the idea of life change.0
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I can go to the site but can't play the video from the US. From what you say, it sounds similar to the book "how to have your cake and your skinny jeans too" by Josie Spinardi, which, despite its silly title, is a really good little book. I wish everyone on MFP would read it. She talks about the physiology and psychology of dieting and how the accepted way of losing weight fails because it works against how our bodies and minds naturally function and ultimately leads to over-eating and a poor relationship to food. She discusses some studies, one in which young men are severely calorie restricted and basically all have a melt down, but I don't think the men are contained onsite so it may be different from the study you mention.
The second part of the book offers suggestions for losing weight or finding your appropriate weight by learning to tune in to your body and its hunger signals. It has literally changed my life and I can't recommend it enough.
I'll keep an eye out for this program and when it might be available in the US, thanks for sharing!0 -
I found this incredibly interesting even if I was shouting at the screen in parts about the starvation mode the body goes into at less than 1500 cal per day!
The over-riding message in this for me is this......
2 of the very very rich men namely the weight watchers chap and the one after both said that their products did work.......and I agree with that....as they do help at the start......but they then both went on to say very strongly that these digest only work if you relearn the way that you eat once you reach goal or lose weight as if you simply revert back....you will simply put it all back on again as that clearly didn't work the first time or you wouldn't have needed the diet in the first place.....
So the bits to take from this episode are that starving doesn't work, and some products on the market can help....but nothing will do it for you......
We still need to be aware of what goes in must come out or be burnt off or it goes to our hips and butts, and that is why we are all doing so well on this because this isn't a diet.......this is a tool to teach us where things are hidden and what to eat only in minuscule portions........we are being educated by using myfitness pal and we adapt the way we live our lives to incorporate our new knowledge into our lifestyle.
Once we are at or close to our goals, we won't simply "forget" what we have learnt and revert back to how we were, this is a healthier way of eating that will remain for life., and we will understand that yes we can have birthday cake or treats at Christmas or even just a curry with mates, but everything in moderation and we will understand that leading up to and for the couple of days after, we will need to shine our halos and be good so that we can let our hair down when we choose!
Can't wait for the next episode.......please don't shoot me down in flames, this is only my thoughts and opinions, and I hope that most of you agree!!!0 -
Saw it and enjoyed the programme.
Had seen one before about Weight Watchers, just as interesting. (If not a bit scarey)
It is a fact of life that there is no quick fix.
Do think a change of diet and lifestyle is the only way to go.
Maybe going to some weight loss club helps to put you in the right mind set, dunno, never been to one. Just thought they were out to promote and sell their own products. Looks like I could be right, pays to be a cynical Scot!
Having said that at least Rosemary Connelly puts calories with her recipes and promotes exercise. Doesn't to that points crap. (sorry for language there). Think I may have stepped onto a 'soap box'.
Look forward to seeing the rest of them.
Why aren't people comfortable in their own skin? Is it because you have to be a certain size now to fit in?0 -
I'll keep an eye out for this program and when it might be available in the US, thanks for sharing!
If you search the programme title on YouTube it's currently available in 15 minute chunks0 -
I watched it and thought it was a really interesting programme. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.0
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I found this incredibly interesting even if I was shouting at the screen in parts about the starvation mode the body goes into at less than 1500 cal per day!
The over-riding message in this for me is this......
2 of the very very rich men namely the weight watchers chap and the one after both said that their products did work.......and I agree with that....as they do help at the start......but they then both went on to say very strongly that these digest only work if you relearn the way that you eat once you reach goal or lose weight as if you simply revert back....you will simply put it all back on again as that clearly didn't work the first time or you wouldn't have needed the diet in the first place.....
So the bits to take from this episode are that starving doesn't work, and some products on the market can help....but nothing will do it for you......
We still need to be aware of what goes in must come out or be burnt off or it goes to our hips and butts, and that is why we are all doing so well on this because this isn't a diet.......this is a tool to teach us where things are hidden and what to eat only in minuscule portions........we are being educated by using myfitness pal and we adapt the way we live our lives to incorporate our new knowledge into our lifestyle.
Once we are at or close to our goals, we won't simply "forget" what we have learnt and revert back to how we were, this is a healthier way of eating that will remain for life., and we will understand that yes we can have birthday cake or treats at Christmas or even just a curry with mates, but everything in moderation and we will understand that leading up to and for the couple of days after, we will need to shine our halos and be good so that we can let our hair down when we choose!
Can't wait for the next episode.......please don't shoot me down in flames, this is only my thoughts and opinions, and I hope that most of you agree!!!
I do agree ... what I really enjoyed about this programme was precisely that I didn't 100% agree with the approach it took, in fact I was instinctively more than a little defensive and did think hard about what it is I'm trying to do here.
I am utterly resistant to giving up the good things in my life :glasses: but happy to put in a bit of effort to counter the damage I might do with yummy food and lovely booze and a propensity to sit on my *kitten* for too long :laugh:0 -
Phew.....
The other thing about the restricted 1500 cal men kept in the dark is that they would be deficient in vitamin d from the natural light which would affect their calcium absorption.....in other words at risk of brittle bones and rickets.......and I bet we all thought that died with the ark!
Everything in moderation........and that includes wine and chocolate, but I much prefer eating my calories rather than drinking them!0 -
I found this incredibly interesting even if I was shouting at the screen in parts about the starvation mode the body goes into at less than 1500 cal per day!
The over-riding message in this for me is this......
2 of the very very rich men namely the weight watchers chap and the one after both said that their products did work.......and I agree with that....as they do help at the start......but they then both went on to say very strongly that these digest only work if you relearn the way that you eat once you reach goal or lose weight as if you simply revert back....you will simply put it all back on again as that clearly didn't work the first time or you wouldn't have needed the diet in the first place.....
So the bits to take from this episode are that starving doesn't work, and some products on the market can help....but nothing will do it for you......
We still need to be aware of what goes in must come out or be burnt off or it goes to our hips and butts, and that is why we are all doing so well on this because this isn't a diet.......this is a tool to teach us where things are hidden and what to eat only in minuscule portions........we are being educated by using myfitness pal and we adapt the way we live our lives to incorporate our new knowledge into our lifestyle.
Once we are at or close to our goals, we won't simply "forget" what we have learnt and revert back to how we were, this is a healthier way of eating that will remain for life., and we will understand that yes we can have birthday cake or treats at Christmas or even just a curry with mates, but everything in moderation and we will understand that leading up to and for the couple of days after, we will need to shine our halos and be good so that we can let our hair down when we choose!
Can't wait for the next episode.......please don't shoot me down in flames, this is only my thoughts and opinions, and I hope that most of you agree!!!
Well said!!0 -
I'll keep an eye out for this program and when it might be available in the US, thanks for sharing!
If you search the programme title on YouTube it's currently available in 15 minute chunks
Thank you for mentioning YouTube. I just finished watching the whole set of 4 and it was extremely interesting. I hope that others who watch it take away the idea that healthy eating and exercise for life are the real "miracle" cure to overweight. As a yoyo person, I don't plan to go there again and know I can't fall into the old habits. It's tough, but easier than going through the whole process once again.0 -
Yes, I did - it was fascinating. The idea that someone just came up with an arbitrary idea of 'overweight' and then said that everybody was, and started selling them products because of it, is, well...frightening.
Even better, it's a four-part series! So it'll be interesting to see what comes next and what they say about the market (for, surely, that is what it is) today.
^ I can't watch it from the U.S., but if this is seriously what it is all about then I count myself lucky. I have no time for "documentaries" that claim Western populations are not actually overweight or that are more concerned with drama than with facts. I personally find arguments against things like BMI to rarely be coming from the very fit bodybuilders, who actually have a legitimate gripe, and far more often by the simply overweight who are claiming to be "big boned" or some other such nonsense.
If there is a different point or message please let us know.0 -
For me the reporter was presenting a one-sided, anti-diet industry perspective that totally ignored personal responsibility as a factor in weight management. I can't stand reporters who are ignorant to their interviewees and thought they were gracious in how they dealt with him.
As has already been said, the diet products and schemes do what they say: they help us lose weight if we follow the instructions. However, if on achieving our goals we celebrate with chocolate and curry and continue our lives the way we were before we WILL put the weight back on, it is inevitable. Diets do work, it is unhealthy lifestyles that do not.
The key to all of this is education. People need to accept for themselves that their lifestyles are compromising their health. This only recently happened for me when I started keeping a food diary here, scaring myself stupid at what I was putting in my body. I don't think I can ever go back, but if I do it we be my fault, no-one else's.
I suppose the key point for me is that we don't need the diet industry, we can do this for ourselves if only we make that choice, we just don't make that choice so fall back on the industry to do it for us.
Commit to change your life, set some realistic goals, count your calories, eat well, exercise frequently, laugh often, share your experiences with a support network, eat yummies in moderation and see what happens.0 -
I agree whole heartedly with 007's summary of the episode to date.
For those who want an instant help foods like WW's etc are there to do that but they are not the complete answer. Only a change in ones lifestyle, not just for now whilst losing the weight but it's for a life time. That often takes buying and cooking the right things, being observant of what is being eaten. That is one main reason that I do not tend towards these diets or for that matter such things as gastric bands (I know some have to resort to this for medical reasons) Getting into a proper eating regime with a few treats along the way is the best thing to do IMHO. (-:0 -
I totally agree.....there is no magic pill/potion/shake to melt away our pounds....
Just education, tenacity and the will to succeed. Is not about the diet, more about the way we choose to live our lives after we have gotten to we're we want to be.....
Simples........0 -
I posted this as a response in the Men Who Made Us Fat thread.... and it fell off the page without comment, forgive me but it took an age to type....
The Men Who Made us THIN, who are they? What is it?
The actuary who invented BMI so his company could avoid insuring people who had the temerity to die early - totally arbitrary numbers still used to day. Only accurate ish if you are 25, very fit and active and relatively slim.... but hey, use those numbers for 6 and 60 year olds.
The Slimfast man... same as the Weight Watchers.... we only have a business because of repeat customers - you should be able to see the flaw, from the customers pov. The FDA had to step in and beg people to see their doctors when the first meal replacement meal came out - the clip was not amusing. Slimfast and WWatchers now owned by food manufacturers and investment portfolio's alll round the world! They take billions in profits every year - they like us fat!
Atkins and Dukan... don't go there! They still make me angry and Dukan just looked and sounded like and idiot.
A PROPER explanation about the Minnesota Project's findings - if you don't know watch the programme and hear the physiological reasons why ALL diets make your weight bounce back (the study was scary, you may be shocked at what they actually did).
And listen for the stats.... less than 16% of people on WW are succesful in the long term. None of those diets are intended for the long term. ALL are focussed on a quick hit, a weight bounce and a return. That is what THEY say, well the business end does, the frontline evangelists disagree!
The argument that the product is to help you lose weight, it does not fail YOU DO.... that is their sales pitch.
Sadly that is what the Minnesota Project showed them.... if you lose weight your body looks to return the weight and once you start you cannot stop. It is obvious really. A short term (less than lifetime) diet will help you lose weight but as soon as you stop dieting you will return to your old habits - especially if your diet does not teach you new ones - and oh look! The weight will come back on. Obvious really, fat cells are numerous and hungry beasties.
Forget about the sugar conspiracy, calorie vs calorie etc. Once you are overweight you are overweight. There is no quick fix, 30 day shred, drop a dress size in 10 days, meal replacements, points, sins and all of those others will NOT work. Once you are overweight only eternal vigilance and persistence will keep the weight off.
That is why we must choose a permanent life change over a diet! Easy really :-D
So choose your diet carefully. If you like WW, Slimfast, etc remember you will have to continue forever.... so choose something you like, doesn't make you paranoid, obssessed or skint.
And good luck to us, one and all
3 more to go, I wonder if I will survive the presenter's 'style'?0 -
Eeek I am sorry but I simply don't agree with 100% of what you have just said. The reason people get fat is because they over eat.....fact.
If you lose your weight, your body does not want to go back to whence it came!
If you eat what a healthy normal person should eat....you will not get fat.
You DO NOT need a diet for life......to lose weight, you need either a diet that works for you....but more importantly a lifestyle change that slims you down, makes you healthier, and prevents you from getting fat again.
Please don't frighten some of the people on here that they will need to DIET for life......that simply isn't true, watch what you eat...yes......but also, if you are going to have a curry....... And I do.......then just adjust accordingly and limit the damage over the prior and post days to compensate.......
To say that you need to diet for life is terrifying....particularly if you are one of the people that need to shed 50lbs plus.....that will scare me witless......
What you need to do for life is educate yourself....after all, the reason we got fat was because we didn't know or understand what we were eating....once you understand the need to regulate your calorific intake......you are set up for a healthy lifestyle that does in no way mean dieting or starving or missing out for life.......
Just my point of view!0 -
Sorry, it is what I believe and is based on a lot of science.
I'm not saying you will need to be as vigilant as you are when in loss mode, but you absolutely will have to live in active maintenance mode.
That should include pizza and beer and cake plus some regular measuring, logging, whatever, to ensure you don't bounce.
Fat cells are just one of the very real reasons that anyone who has lost a lot of weight will need to be vigilant - that is one of the findings of the Minnesota Project and a number of other studies since then.
So I don't mean starving for life, but I do mean being aware of your diet (that being what you eat rather than a programme) forever.
I am sorry if you find that frightening, but it is true. Thin people do it better without too much active thought. The rest of us need to keep actively managing it.0 -
Good video, I like Mr Dukan, he said diet is a life changing thing and he is so right, Eat less all your life
people look for easy fast solution, losing weight and gaining..the truth is you need to diet all your life! I knew all those miracle diets are made of crap, didn't shocked me LOL once again, thanks for sharing. 0 -
I think that one of the problems the presenter had was that those who sold us diets actually had some very solid sound bites / beliefs / points of view - like Dukan and the Slim Fast mas - even if they did come across as living very, very far away from the world the rest of us inhabit.
It was very hard for the poor little boy to remonstrate when given some fairly solid psychology and physiology.. If he had been a little bit more focussed and if the aim was to be a little bit more informative and less shocking he might have got on better - but then it wouldn't have been so watchable
PS You can't like Dukan, he was stuck off by the French Medical Register. He had requested to be removed as he was retired and didn't need to abide by their rules anymore. This was as they were running a full blown investigation into his suggestion that A level students should get extra points for losing weight in their final year.. they struck him off anyway.
I told you he was a bit out of touch with reality [:)]0 -
I really enjoyed this show but it didn't really tell me anything I didn't know. I lost weight with Weight Watchers twice and guess what? I put all of it back on and more because WW doesn't teach about healthy eating it just preaches calorie/point counting which is utter crap and tries to sell their junk food products to vunerable people.
I also watched his other documentary The Men Who Made Us Fat and that was really fascinating and shocking especially how governments are controlled by fast food companies, utterly disgusting.0 -
Was it as gross as Fast Food Nation?
I might catch up with it if it was 0 -
I saw it and found it very interesting. Food companies involved in manufacturing weight loss foods seem to make lots of money.
I have rarely bought diet products but have previously eaten lots of ready meals. I now prefer to cook from scratch - stir frys, curries, meat and two veg.0 -
Finally got to watch the episode. I lost 3 stone with weight watchers years ago. I had stopped going when the novelty of being at goal wore off, and, you've guessed it, i put it all back on. It was my fault and mine alone and as one of the 84% who failed I could well have been a repeat customer. As a business model its genius! I decided however that I was not going to hand over more money to be told what I already knew, I still had the motivational books and points guide and I knew how to diet, didn't I? That is the point, I knew how to diet but I had not made a lifestyle change. So I tried on my own, without the encouragement from meetings and failed numerous times.
So now I've lost 3 stone again with MFP and will probably have to keep logging forever but my focus is on being healthy not thin.
Looking forward to the next episode....0 -
The whole secret is diet always, there is no temporary solutions it has to be part of your new life! I am glad I found MFP ! And glad I understand now!! 0
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