This is scary. Woman dies of heart attack at gym

If you need to do chest compressions they're already dead so there's no valid argument that performing CPR is somehow negligent. What could you possibly do to make the situation worse? If you do nothing, they will remain dead. If you do something, they might not remain dead. Even the dumbest jurors can understand this.

What about the situations where someone passes out, has a faint pulse or the pulse is hard to find due to excess weight or other problems, and the person attempting to administer assistance mistakes that for a lack of a pulse?

And if you're doing CPR, the individual is not dead. The patient could be in ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia. In either situation, the heart still has electrical activity, but is not pumping blood to the rest of the body. Therefore there is no pulse. CPR and/or the use of an AED can restart the heart, causing the electrical activity to work properly again, making blood flow and therefore producing a pulse.

If someone has no electrical activity, then they truly are deceased and no amount of CPR or use of an AED will provide a remedy for that. However, there is absolutely no way of knowing if the individual has any electrical activity or not, without the use of medical equipment.

CPR is to be administered when a person stops breathing, in an effort to keep oxygen pumping as best as possible until medically trained personnel arrive. Pulse or no pulse. It fails more often than not, in fact, it is usually useless--- if the aorta is ruptured and bleeding out you're toast and no AED is going to show up and re-start that business.

However, in situations where keeping the oxygen pumping for those precious few seconds between the emergency event and the arrival of life-saving humans/technology; CPR can work miracles.

It's all about swift response. And in this particular instance, the sluggish reaction of the witness and the staff may have been the nail in that lady's coffin.

I agree - it's all about swift response. My point was that simply, you can't assume that the individual is "dead" just because you can't feel a pulse. If the pulse is faint, but there, and you administer CPR and there are no good Samaritan laws to protect you - you could be sued for cracking a rib or something. I was just trying to contrast the notion that you couldn't be sued because nothing worse could possibly happen.

If you need to do chest compressions they're already dead so there's no valid argument that performing CPR is somehow negligent. What could you possibly do to make the situation worse? If you do nothing, they will remain dead. If you do something, they might not remain dead. Even the dumbest jurors can understand this.

What about the situations where someone passes out, has a faint pulse or the pulse is hard to find due to excess weight or other problems, and the person attempting to administer assistance mistakes that for a lack of a pulse?

And if you're doing CPR, the individual is not dead. The patient could be in ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia. In either situation, the heart still has electrical activity, but is not pumping blood to the rest of the body. Therefore there is no pulse. CPR and/or the use of an AED can restart the heart, causing the electrical activity to work properly again, making blood flow and therefore producing a pulse.

If someone has no electrical activity, then they truly are deceased and no amount of CPR or use of an AED will provide a remedy for that. However, there is absolutely no way of knowing if the individual has any electrical activity or not, without the use of medical equipment.

CPR is to be administered when a person stops breathing, in an effort to keep oxygen pumping as best as possible until medically trained personnel arrive. Pulse or no pulse. It fails more often than not, in fact, it is usually useless--- if the aorta is ruptured and bleeding out you're toast and no AED is going to show up and re-start that business.

However, in situations where keeping the oxygen pumping for those precious few seconds between the emergency event and the arrival of life-saving humans/technology; CPR can work miracles.

It's all about swift response. And in this particular instance, the sluggish reaction of the witness and the staff may have been the nail in that lady's coffin.

I agree - it's all about swift response. My point was that simply, you can't assume that the individual is "dead" just because you can't feel a pulse. If the pulse is faint, but there, and you administer CPR and there are no good Samaritan laws to protect you - you could be sued for cracking a rib or something. I was just trying to contrast the notion that you couldn't be sued because nothing worse could possibly happen.

I CAN assume that they're dead or soon will be because I'm not a trained medical professional. If I see someone drop and I'm the only one available to help I'm going to call 911 then check for a pulse. If I don't find one, I'm going to administer CPR without first calling a lawyer or checking whether my certification has expired. If the person manages to live and decides to sue me because I broke a rib or something then so be it, I'm pretty sure the lawsuit won't stand because the law (including case law) in California like most states is completely unambiguous about this. The things people are positing here are theoretically possible but they just really don't happen much in real life. Either way, I'll easily be able to live with myself knowing I did the right thing and what I would want someone to do for me regardless of what the law says or does. For those who wish to think about it more or ponder the legalities and so on while someone dies in front of you, knock yourselves out. As far as I'm concerned, there are no legal ramifications even worth considering. It's a lot more likely you get hepatitis or something (although less so now that they are not calling for mouth-to-mouth). I would still perform rescue breathing on a family member and maybe on a stranger depending on the circumstances.

People should do or not do whatever they're comfortable with but should the situation arise you're going to have to be OK with whatever you decide for the rest of your life so it pays to really think through it now and use good information and not unfounded fear to make those decisions.

I CAN assume that they're dead or soon will be because I'm not a trained medical professional. If I see someone drop and I'm the only one available to help I'm going to call 911 then check for a pulse. If I don't find one, I'm going to administer CPR without first calling a lawyer or checking whether my certification has expired. If the person manages to live and decides to sue me because I broke a rib or something then so be it, I'm pretty sure the lawsuit won't stand because the law (including case law) in California like most states is completely unambiguous about this. The things people are positing here are theoretically possible but they just really don't happen much in real life. Either way, I'll easily be able to live with myself knowing I did the right thing and what I would want someone to do for me regardless of what the law says or does. For those who wish to think about it more or ponder the legalities and so on while someone dies in front of you, knock yourselves out. As far as I'm concerned, there are no legal ramifications even worth considering. It's a lot more likely you get hepatitis or something (although less so now that they are not calling for mouth-to-mouth). I would still perform rescue breathing on a family member and maybe on a stranger depending on the circumstances.

People should do or not do whatever they're comfortable with but should the situation arise you're going to have to be OK with whatever you decide for the rest of your life so it pays to really think through it now and use good information and not unfounded fear to make those decisions.

ALL of THIS ^

Nice to see other people I inhabit this planet with feel the same way too, who cares what the law says, whatever happens, I am doing the right thing and getting stuck in, because I'm the one who has to live with myself after.

I'm a trauma nurse and we have a lot of patients that came in with heart condition especially heart attack and they are skinny. It doesnt matter your weight when it comes to your heart. Instead of the fat going in to their thigh or belly for example, it goes in around the heart instead and that could be why she had the heart attack. Fats could go into your organs too so even if youre skinny and you think you can eat anything and everything, you should be healthy instead and eat normal because while you might not see the fat outside...... You are killing your organs inside.

Skinny =/= Healthy Heart.

It's sad, but people die. And it doesn't have to be someone's fault. It's just life.

But assigning blame is de jour for a suing culture....

The employee at the counter was a typical brain dead sheep.

I would certainly help someone out.

People should be trained in basic first aid and CPR even if it is only for their own family. I don't understand why people don't do it?

People should get a good physical before starting an exercise program.

I shudder at some of the threads on here when some 400lb person who probably hasn't done any more exercise than walking from the sofa to the toilet asks if they should start Insanity or PX90 and a bunch of dimwits say sure jump right in and just push through it.

People should get a complete physical before starting and start out slowly if that is just walking to the mailbox and a bit of very light stretching.

10 gyms & 5,000 employees?!? Holy crap! The line for the lift rack must be ridiculous.