"The idea is completely false"

Weight management is not as simple as the calories in, calories out

"this idea is completely false" professor john blundell of leeds university




http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Calories-in-vs.-calories-out-Weight-management-is-not-that-simple-say-researchers


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Replies

  • jmayerovitch
    jmayerovitch Posts: 71 Member
    "Allison pointed out that as people lose weight, their caloric needs change." - Okay, still calories in vs. calories out. It's just that your calories out has changed. Same equation.

    "Additionally, eating higher calorie meals at a restaurant does not necessarily lead to weight gain as people tend to compensate by eating less the day before or after the higher calorie meal" - Sooo ... if you eat more one day and less one day, it's still the same equation. Is this some grand new idea?

    This article is stupid.
  • gigglesinthesun
    gigglesinthesun Posts: 860 Member
    I'd be interested to see the actual work he did, not the paraphrased stuff from a press conference. Nothing that was quoted or mentioned after the bold statement of it being completely false actually explained how he got to that conclusion.
  • jmayerovitch
    jmayerovitch Posts: 71 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".
  • clareyoung80
    clareyoung80 Posts: 177 Member
    I love sloppy article writing like this...

    Caroline Scott-Thomas, go back to journalism school.
  • NonnyMary
    NonnyMary Posts: 982 Member
    I could not access the article for some reason? what was its point?

    As far as I know, you lose weight by a calorie deficit.. is he disproving that??
  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
    I read it, but it just kind of ends... there is nothing to the article..
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    This ^

    The only reason I posted this was because a RD tweeted it followed by a PhD in nutrtion which I asked both for links to research, etc.

    Of course I didn't get anything in return...
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,208 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    Or that calories in is hard to calculate due to factors like varying energy costs of digesting different foods, the hormonal response to different foods, inaccurate food labels, etc.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,266 Member
    Somehow they seemed to misunderstand the definition of energy balance..............then criticized it leading to to the idea it's false............what do we call that boys and girls.:happy:
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    perhaps the line "People tend to compensate for changes in both activity and food intake" is a clue to what he was driving at, but it got lost in translation whatever it was.
  • exmsde
    exmsde Posts: 85 Member
    I love sloppy article writing like this...

    Caroline Scott-Thomas, go back to journalism school.

    haha YES! Exactly what i was thinking while reading this.

    I think that is where they learn to write articles like that!
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    Translation :

    If it was that simple people wouldn't need nutritionists, dieticians, diet products or weight reduction surgeries and we'd lose our research funding, so it's in our best interest to keep people confused and fearful.
  • _noob_
    _noob_ Posts: 3,306 Member
    Eat less, move more, and it's always carbs' fault.
  • exmsde
    exmsde Posts: 85 Member
    It's a stupid quote, though I think he was just trying to rail at how focused people are on the simplification. Basically its a forest vs. trees discussion.

    This was part of a series of presentations at icn2013 titled "Energy balance and active living". I didn't see anything about proceedings, so I don't know if or when one could read the papers behind the quotes.

    A couple of years ago The Lancet published a related paper that I haven't read yet. It's at http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60812-X/abstract (free registration required to read entire article).
  • exmsde
    exmsde Posts: 85 Member
    "Health and nutrition organisations have perpetuated the myth that a reduction of food
    intake of 2 MJ per day will lead to a steady rate of weight loss of 0·5 kg per week.
    Because this static weight-loss rule does not account for dynamic physiological
    adaptations that occur with decreased bodyweight, its widespread use at both the
    individual and population levels has led to drastically overestimated expectations for
    weight loss." - http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60812-X/abstract
  • FizikallyFit
    FizikallyFit Posts: 180 Member
    head_asplode.jpg
  • cmcollins001
    cmcollins001 Posts: 3,472 Member
    Eat less, move more, and it's always carbs' fault.

    Carbs.....AND Diet Coke.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    "Health and nutrition organisations have perpetuated the myth that a reduction of food
    intake of 2 MJ per day will lead to a steady rate of weight loss of 0·5 kg per week.
    Because this static weight-loss rule does not account for dynamic physiological
    adaptations that occur with decreased bodyweight, its widespread use at both the
    individual and population levels has led to drastically overestimated expectations for
    weight loss." - http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60812-X/abstract

    Which is perfectly reasonable. Not everyone has the same TDEE. If you set a blanket goal for a wide population, some will be taking in less than they burn, some the same, and some more.

    But if you make a half way reasonable assessment of your TDEE, eat less than that, and then adjust for observed results, you'll lose weight. Millions of MFP users are examples of this.
  • Deipneus
    Deipneus Posts: 1,854 Member
    This is terrible news. I've lost all this weight and been on maintenance following the calories in minus calories out plan and now I find out that it doesn't work. What am I going to do?
  • tracieangeletti
    tracieangeletti Posts: 432 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    This. It is calories in vs calories out but finding that magical calorie intake number can make you crazy sometimes. :-/
  • janatarnhem
    janatarnhem Posts: 669 Member
    Weight management is not as simple as the calories in, calories out

    "this idea is completely false" professor john blundell of leeds university




    http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Calories-in-vs.-calories-out-Weight-management-is-not-that-simple-say-researchers


    interdesting.jpg
    But this is just a quote from the article.....So?
  • BarbieAS
    BarbieAS Posts: 1,414 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    YES. Times a bazillion. :flowerforyou:

    Calories in vs calories out works for EVERYONE. It might just take more than plugging your weight and a totally plucked from thin air "activity level" into some arbitrary online calculator to nail down the "calories out" piece.
  • cmcollins001
    cmcollins001 Posts: 3,472 Member
    I think that the fact that people take the time and effort to track calories, they become aware of how much then end up consuming in the course of a day, a week, a month. Is tracking calories in and calories out going to be 100% accurate...most of the time its not. I would even venture a guess that's it's about 90% accurate and sometimes less than that.

    Labels aren't accurate most of the time, people don't use a food scale and either eyeball it or use a measuring cup...and a cup is not a cup is not a cup...they fill it beneath the rim or use a rounded cup, and where you might get 50 grams using one cup, you may get 55 grams using another brand of measuring cup even though you think you filled it up the same place. When you get something from a restaurant, those are estimated calories based on what was measured by certain guidelines, but those workers don't always go by those guidelines. Take an ice cream cone from Sonic, it's listed as 250 calories on their website, but what you actually get from the server can range from being a really small serving, or a really large serving...just depends on where you stop and who is making the cone. Is my apple a medium or a large? Is it 80 calories or 90 calories?

    Peoples metabolism, how much everyday regular activity they truly do, and several other factors, are often either overestimated or underestimated. I probably move more everyday than I think I do, but I will often put that I'm sedentary when filling out those online calculators to calculated my BMR or TDEE because I have a desk job. This happens a lot.

    Yes, it's a crap shoot. The goal, I think, is to be as aware of what and how much you're eating as you can, try to get as close to your goals as you possibly can, make informed choices on what foods you eat to fit your calorie and macro goals, exercise doing what you enjoy and track those burned calories as close as possible. In the end, you will still be eating less calories than you did when you were just shoving food blissfully down your pie hole before you started tracking, and that's where the success will come from. This has worked for me so far, as it has for many other people through this site and on other sites and with other programs where the food is prepacked and the calories are measure for you.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    I think that the fact that people take the time and effort to track calories, they become aware of how much then end up consuming in the course of a day, a week, a month. Is tracking calories in and calories out going to be 100% accurate...most of the time its not. I would even venture a guess that's it's about 90% accurate and sometimes less than that.

    Labels aren't accurate most of the time, people don't use a food scale and either eyeball it or use a measuring cup...and a cup is not a cup is not a cup...they fill it beneath the rim or use a rounded cup, and where you might get 50 grams using one cup, you may get 55 grams using another brand of measuring cup even though you think you filled it up the same place. When you get something from a restaurant, those are estimated calories based on what was measured by certain guidelines, but those workers don't always go by those guidelines. Take an ice cream cone from Sonic, it's listed as 250 calories on their website, but what you actually get from the server can range from being a really small serving, or a really large serving...just depends on where you stop and who is making the cone. Is my apple a medium or a large? Is it 80 calories or 90 calories?

    Peoples metabolism, how much everyday regular activity they truly do, and several other factors, are often either overestimated or underestimated. I probably move more everyday than I think I do, but I will often put that I'm sedentary when filling out those online calculators to calculated my BMR or TDEE because I have a desk job. This happens a lot.

    Yes, it's a crap shoot. The goal, I think, is to be as aware of what and how much you're eating as you can, try to get as close to your goals as you possibly can, make informed choices on what foods you eat to fit your calorie and macro goals, exercise doing what you enjoy and track those burned calories as close as possible. In the end, you will still be eating less calories than you did when you were just shoving food blissfully down your pie hole before you started tracking, and that's where the success will come from. This has worked for me so far, as it has for many other people through this site and on other sites and with other programs where the food is prepacked and the calories are measure for you.

    This is 100% true. But it's where 'adjust for observed results' comes in. If you aren't losing weight at the rate predicted by your net calorie intake, then make adjustments. Control everything as accurately as you can, and look to the things that you can't control as the first likely sources of error. That may be that you eat out a lot, so don't directly control your portions, or it may be your exercise burns, or whatever.

    For example - I had several months of results matching predictions exactly. Then over the summer my weight loss stalled for six weeks. When the kids went back to school, it started again. I examined everything and found that weight loss stalled just as I started spending lots of time in the pool with the kids, and started again when I stopped.

    Conclusion : I was over-estimating my calorie burn when I was at the pool with the kids.
    Solution : Next year during pool season I will log far fewer calories burned when I'm swimming with the kids, because obviously the distractions and stop/start has a greater impact than I realized.
  • NonnyMary
    NonnyMary Posts: 982 Member
    I think the problem is people underestimate the calories eaten and/or the exercise calories used.

    probably a person has to test out any theory to see if true - i.e - if you're eyeballing/guessing what a cupful of food is, and you dont seem to be losing weight, but then you start to weigh and measure carefully and then you seem to be losing weight, it could be that the problem is you were underestimating calories.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    I read it, but it just kind of ends... there is nothing to the article..

    I noticed the same thing...

    and the article is idiotic...
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    I think the problem is people underestimate the calories eaten and/or the exercise calories used.

    probably a person has to test out any theory to see if true - i.e - if you're eyeballing/guessing what a cupful of food is, and you dont seem to be losing weight, but then you start to weigh and measure carefully and then you seem to be losing weight, it could be that the problem is you were underestimating calories.

    Bingo. And failure to measure does not mean that the equation doesn't hold true.

    The calories in/calories out method only works if you are making reasonable estimates of both.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    ^this

    Usually also a healthy dose of "calories in is really hard to calculate accurately" too...

    ...as if precision is required for the overall concept to be valid.
  • schondell
    schondell Posts: 556 Member
    Whenever I read an article where someone claims "calories in vs. calories out is false" what they almost always really mean is that: "calories out is really hard to calculate accurately and can vary widely from person to person doing the same things".

    Pretty much the entire article in a sentence.
  • chatogal
    chatogal Posts: 436 Member
    Am I the only person here that finds it offensive that someone is using a pic of a man with Downs Syndrome as a gif to make a point??